TRon

I don't think Nolan has managed to control a single ball played in to him so far. Absolute travesty of a footballer.

9 Miracle if we stay up now.

I said after Jack Wilshire had his leg snapped by a clumsy twat that these sort of injuries happen far too much in premier football. Watching Ben Arfa's trickery over the last few weks I'll bet a few people were dreading exactly this scenario. Football 0 Neanderthals 1

I think the problem in your thinking is reflected in your language and probably also mirrors Hughton's thought processes. We had by far the better players in the first half and weren't concerned about"stopping" Stoke at home. Once we switched to negative mode far too early in the second half, Stoke sniffed the fear and accepted the invitation to dominate us on our own turf. If we had the defenders available to soak up pressure from the aerial bombardment then it might have made sense, but are Perch, Colo and Enrique's best qualities likely to be show-cased in an aerial battle against Stoke?

Stats are only relatively useful to assess a player anyway, either for or against. Most people who watch quality football teams can see that a fat, slow footballer up front is only going to be effective from set pieces. Now Gazza wasn't particularly quick and could look a bit tubby but he was phenomenally gifted.

A good summary of the counter-argument. Gosling in particular could threaten Nolan's place in the side. Gosling is a midfielder, Nolan if I'm not mistaken is playing as a striker.

That brings into question Carroll's role in the team. Usually a target man is used to bring others into the game, whether that's a forward running off him or midfielders arriving in the box. Nolan doesn't really fit into either category and IMO the partnership doesn't work. As it happens I thought Ranger was excellent in his hold up play when he was used as a sole striker last season. Hughton needs to find a solution where the strikers are linking with the midfielders better, we would have a better chance of scoring goals that way IMO.

This idea that we have to play Ben Arfa as a winger or a poacher is itself an indictment of the current level of thinking at this club. Tell me, does Tevez chase after flick ons at Man City? Does Torres at Liverpool? Does Rooney at Man U? Who chases after Drogba's flick ons? Hughton's use of Nolan as a fat moocher is effectively restricting our method of scoring goals to hump it high and hope it lands at Nolan's feet. The worst part of it is we aren't even as good at it as Stoke.

Maybe Hughton is defending Nolan because he intends to use him against City, a game we are unlikely to win. I don't particularly want HBA to start that one because if we lose it will give Hughton a perfect excuse to bring back Nolan for Wigan.

So despite Nolan being in the side for his goal scoring prowess - and starting every game so far - we are hardly banging them in are we?

Hughton's justification for Nolan's place in the side is goals. The problem is with him in the side we look much less likely to create chances. Take away the Villa game and how many have we scored this season?

Hughton's real test was always going to be this season. He's done a sterling job so far but he needs to decide what sort of football we are going to play in this league and whether the players he picks are giving him the best chance of winning games. He might be right that Nolan is one of those but I don't think so. Never have and probably never will unless the results on the pitch prove otherwise.

Some seem to think it's the manager who doesn't want to disagree with the club captain.

What worries me about that diatribe is that Hughton and Nolan are both singing from the same hymn sheet. Instead of deflecting the blame onto the defending of set pieces, maybe the manager and captain could ask why Stoke were allowed to push us back into areas where we would give away free kicks in dangerous positions in the first place? Why didn't we keep a high line and press forward because their lumbering forwards were hardly going to get in behind us?

Nail on head, Carroll needs a partner. He's just not mobile enough to play up front alone. It's a concern. We've got some really good players but they don't fit together very well into an obvious system that will get the best out of them. Hughton's got some real thinking to do. I do want to try Ben Arfa in the role Nolan currently occupies but to do that we really need the wide players to support the front man more, in the same way that, for example, Kalou and Malouda do for Chelsea. No reason why they can't do it, Jonas and Routledge are both good players, but it'll take some work. While we are using Chelsea as an example, we could also use Lampard as an example of how the central midfielder can provide valuable goals in a 4-4-1-1 system. It's what Nolan was initially bought for until it was realised that he has the legs of a pensioner. If Barton's going to play alongside a holding midfielder like Tiote then he should also be getting in the box more.

His anonymous performance at Chelsea is testimony to this unfortunately. I also can't understand the clamour for Ameobi either as he has proved time and time again that he is total garbage at this level. Ben Arfa playing centrally and Jonas playing left wing is the way to go at home. And away. I think we need to be more conservative away from home and think Nolan should play away. I actually like Nolan, think he's a good captain and leader on the pitch and is also a good footballer, but his lack of pace is his undoing at this level. I disagree with people saying he is fat and unfit as i don't think he is, he just lacks pace. WEll you slag off Shola but given the choice I'd have him up front ahead of Nolan any day. If Carroll was the main striker I'd have the following as strikers alongside in order of preference: 1) Ben Arfa (Beardsley role|) 2) Lovenkrands 3) Shola 4) Ranger 5) Xisco 6) Leon Best 7) Nolan

He's French so even if he's only been signed to be Ben Arfa's pal I approve. If he turns out to be mint it's a bonus.

well for one it shows that he didnt put one good cross in during 90 mins of football. it's pretty damning evidence imo. especially playing at home. Or it could also show that no one was getting in the box on the end of perfectly good crosses. possibly, am i reading that chart incorrectly? does it mean that he put 0 successful crosses in? or that he put 0 crosses in? ahh fuck it, we need to be better up front. Not that I'm a fan of Routledge's crossing but can remember at least one which went across the goal invitingly and no one was anywhere near. If we assume that Carroll was heavily marked then I would say that Nolan, the two wide players and Barton should be the ones arriving in the box to give support. I don't think that was the case very often was it?

well for one it shows that he didnt put one good cross in during 90 mins of football. it's pretty damning evidence imo. especially playing at home. Or it could also show that no one was getting in the box on the end of perfectly good crosses.

I said this after the win against Everton despite everyone having a wankfest over Nolan on that day. He's a bottleneck for the whole team so I would much rather give Ben Arfa free reign to cause havoc off the main striker. With the movement of HBA, Jonas and Routledge there should be much more opportunity for goals, but then these guys along with the main striker have to take the responsibility of getting in the box and scoring them.

Football matters more in this part of the country so it stands to reason that SKY/ESPN will broadcast our games in the hope we will sign up to their packages. Add to that we are a high profile club with a big fan base. If you had a choice of showing a Newcastle game or a Blackburn one what would you do?

As far as I'm concerned HUghton has done a great job since being made manager in a lot of aspects. Team spirit is good, he's a great amabassador and he's made decent signings for the most part. But to succeed at this level he will need to be ruthless because every club has got the money to buy players who are better than Championship level. Hughton's subs on Sunday were predictable but he took off our best two players not the ones who aren't good enough. If he'd got a result he could have turned round and claimed he was right. But he didn't and the players he put his faith in blew it. There's still plenty of time but this league takes no prisoners and Hughton won't get away with playing slow midfielders up front as a tactic in this division. Even the crappiest of our relegation rivals have a better option.

That all sounds a bit complicated compared to Hughton's "play the goalscorers" tactic.

There's some seriously quotable stuff right there.

I don't think he's a bad finisher but that aside, he's at least a better finisher than Nolan and will create more space/make better runs. I'd fancy Nolan over Lovenkrands to finish a chance. So would I...but I'd fancy Loven 9/10 times to actually get on the end of one in open play.