TRon

Hopefully Ranger will get a start alongside either Loven or carroll and sign off with a goal against Peterborough.

No its not, thats just a stupid thing to say. His 2007 opta stats were about the best for his club and he had some great games under Keegan. Drawing a parallel to Butt tells me you havent applied a single ounce of logic to that post. 2 seasons ago for a 27 year old or 8 seasons ago for a 35 year old? Yes in a game where physical peak is meant to occur around the ages of 26-28, they are equivalent. You must be pissed. Great games under Keegan? Not sure about that, he had some good games certainly in that little run we went on but I'd expect a central midfielder of his billing to look more than quite good in three or four games since he got here two seasons ago. I know he's been injured as well as his other problems but he's shown consistently the same flaws all along on the field. I reckon you can probably count on one hand the amount of 8/10+ games Barton has had for NUFC. If we're making comparisons, Guthrie's been far better in black and white. He was class away at Spurs when we beat them 1-4 and was a pivotal part of the 4-3-3 formation playing on the left. He was the best player on the pitch when we beat West Brom at home last season too. Am no good with this stuff off the top of my head but i dont remember Guthrie being pivotal in a premiership game for us. Barton has proven premiership class, Guthrie has it all ahead of him and still needs to prove he can take control of a game at that level. I'd say that Guthrie is a fantastic prospect though and could easily have a better career than Barton for obvious reasons. Dave, I probably saw him once or twice in a Bolton shirt, nothing more. Barton's got more ability than Guthrie but the worrying thing for me is that in previous seasons I've mentioned that he looks off the pace, and he also doesn't get into the opposition box much. He's been looking like almost a class player for ages now and even at a lower level he is still getting caught on the ball. I would give him one more chance in the centre and if he fails to produce put Guthrie in there. He might not be as good but he looks like he's 100% committed and I'm not sure you can say that about barton.

I am actually looking forward to this game because there's a chance that with Hughton able to rest his senior pros there's a great chance we might see a more exciting front line with the likes of Ranger, Lovenkrand and Carroll all possibly involved from the starting line up.

Having the cash is useless without the ambition. Mike Ashley is the perfect example of that. Ideally the next owner will have both, but if not I'll settle for someone who is committed to moving the club forward in any way they can. Hopefully their decision-making will be slightly better as a result. i dont think mr Ashley bought our football club and decided to throw his ambition into touch Let's say Mike Ashley keeps the club and we get promoted next year...is there anyone who can make a convincing case that he will attempt to hire a competent manager and invest in the players we will undoubtedly need in the Premier? If he's so much richer than Barry Moat, will he actually use any of his wealth to take the club forward and what reason is there for thinking he might do so?

He made three changes from the team beaten by Blackpool; this included dropping Butt. Which big players is he accommodating? Nolan & Barton, and in order to do so he is playing a stupid formation.. Back four picks itself, Simpson, Taylor, Colo, Jose Smith is a must in CM, Barton is poor Nolan cannot run, so Guthrie in the middle alongside Smith, Loven on the left and Ryan Taylor on the right, Carroll and Ramger upfront, its not rocket science. He started Guthrie against Blackpool and only subbed him after it went to 2-1. It's not just the personnel, it''s also about picking 11 players who will complement each other. No point in picking guthrie if you are going to stick Nolan up front as a result. Accommodating players is solely about the personnel which is what the original point was about; he's picked Guthrie and Butt and dropped both. Seems to me he picks a goal-keeper and back four we all agree with; rotates his midfield except Smith whose inclusion most of us agree with, selects the rest of the midfield to deal with what's in front of them and is willing to change things when it's the right time, as he did yesterday. I think someone already made the point but why play only one striker at home against a shite team? It's this decision or lack of, that most people don't agree with. Because apparently we're better off not attacking shit teams at home, instead waiting until they threaten to get something from the game before changing things. That sounds like a cunning plan

He made three changes from the team beaten by Blackpool; this included dropping Butt. Which big players is he accommodating? Nolan & Barton, and in order to do so he is playing a stupid formation.. Back four picks itself, Simpson, Taylor, Colo, Jose Smith is a must in CM, Barton is poor Nolan cannot run, so Guthrie in the middle alongside Smith, Loven on the left and Ryan Taylor on the right, Carroll and Ramger upfront, its not rocket science. He started Guthrie against Blackpool and only subbed him after it went to 2-1. It's not just the personnel, it''s also about picking 11 players who will complement each other. No point in picking guthrie if you are going to stick Nolan up front as a result. Accommodating players is solely about the personnel which is what the original point was about; he's picked Guthrie and Butt and dropped both. Seems to me he picks a goal-keeper and back four we all agree with; rotates his midfield except Smith whose inclusion most of us agree with, selects the rest of the midfield to deal with what's in front of them and is willing to change things when it's the right time, as he did yesterday. I think someone already made the point but why play only one striker at home against a shite team? It's this decision or lack of, that most people don't agree with.

He made three changes from the team beaten by Blackpool; this included dropping Butt. Which big players is he accommodating? Nolan & Barton, and in order to do so he is playing a stupid formation.. Back four picks itself, Simpson, Taylor, Colo, Jose Smith is a must in CM, Barton is poor Nolan cannot run, so Guthrie in the middle alongside Smith, Loven on the left and Ryan Taylor on the right, Carroll and Ramger upfront, its not rocket science. He started Guthrie against Blackpool and only subbed him after it went to 2-1. It's not just the personnel, it''s also about picking 11 players who will complement each other. No point in picking guthrie if you are going to stick Nolan up front as a result.

Shay and owen were on very good salaries at Newcastle but at the end of the day their contributions weren't enough to stop us being relegated so I don't really see that we are missing them that much. Bellamy was the far bigger loss.

£8m's better than nowt but when Tottenham eventually sell him it will probably be for a lot more than that.

So he should for what we are paying him. Genuine question Ronaldo, what is it with Colocinni that makes you rate him so highly? I agree yesterday thought he was the better of the two central defenders, just you defend him to the hilt, even last year when he was absolute rubbish for a lot of the time. Don't know about Ronaldo, but I know for my part while I can see he's got weaknesses, there's some parts of his game that I really like. He's generally a decent marker, pretty good in the tackle and while he's not worth what we paid, he's not half as bad as some people like to make out. Sometimes I end up sticking up for him just to add some balance.

By the endof Given's time here he was more of a hindrance than a help. Don't particularly blame him for jumping ship, but what good does it do to keep miserable bastards like him and Owen at the club? I'm glad we've had a clear out and hopefully we'll bounce back into the Premier and can start again with players who are excited about playing for Newcastle.

. . and what would be the point of him buying it anyway, he couldn't afford to run it. The BEST we could hope for with him, it seems (which would be 'hopeless', but still better than right now actually) would be 'mid-table Premier League nothingness', like we used to think of Villa, Everton, Spurs, Man City & co. Still, no matter who (if anyone) buys the club, it is difficult to imagine us ever competing 'season in season out' for the Premier League Title - which was always the Sir John Hall aim, and is always where a club with such huge support and resources (income) such as us, should always be. If the club generates such huge income (and it does) then why does the owner need to "afford" to run the club? Fantasty Football style investment like Man City isn't the only way to success. This club brings in enough money for a good manager to be successful given time. For the likes of Everton and Villa its necessary to have a rich and generous owner to be successful, they've really got no other option. Obviously it would be nice for us to have one but its not a necessity. Depends how long you want to wait for that "success" and what level of success you're after. If we want anything in the short to medium-term then we're going to need someone who can use their own money for a while until the club's been well and truly sorted out. Years of ineffective and profligate spending have left us in a position where we are making huge losses, have a large amount of debt, and, most importantly, nothing to show for it. To turn that situation around and make progress on the pitch is going to require a lot of investment on the behalf of any new owner. Anyone who comes in without serious financial backing is going to be caught in a Catch-22 situation. We were making big losses, but IF we get back into the Premiership next season we'd no longer be losing money, we'd be making money, mostly due to the massive drop in our wage bill. Once Geremi and Butt have been released in July our wage bill will be down to less then half what it was last season (in the mid to low 30's). Our large debt is a £100m loan from the owner with no interest (was £9m per year) and there's no chance any new owner would accept the full debt anyway (no'one will pay £100m plus £100m debt for the club). I think that "IF" needs to be a bit bigger to be honest, also there's no way that the current squad could survive in the Premiership, so to do that would require us to pay out on transfer fees and increase the wage bill. Also, like I said, "success" is a relative term and I can't imagine that many fans would put up with scrabbling around in the lower reaches of the Premiership or being a yo-yo club given recent events. Can you? Well that's the whole point of this discussion though isn't it? Wether Moat could afford to keep us in the Premiership if we get back up and push us on. What I'm saying is he won't need his own money to get new players and add to the wage bill because our costs would be so much lower then our revenue that we'd make a large profit (around £30m). That money would allow us to bring in new players, and if we need a big extra a small bank loan would be easy to come by given we'd be a Premiership club with such a large revenue. Are you telling me that £30m+ is not enough to keep us in the Premiership the first season we get back up? Obviously the season after we'll generate more cash and can use that to push on. As long as we don't do a Shepherd and take on a top 4 wage bill when we're still mid table and sack a manager every year at a cost of £6m plus we'll always have money to spend ourselves and plenty of cash to pay interest on any loans we may need. If I'd known it's that easy, I'd have put in a bid myself. Seriously though, we will be in a much better financial position if we get promoted this season, you're right. Ashley would have basically taken the hit for Shepherd's mismanagement and we'd probably end up having screwed him over more than the other way around. The club might well be in the position to make a profit, but we all know it's not as simple as that, and no, I'm not sure that £30m is enough to keep us in the Premiership if it's supposed to cover fees and wages and everything else. I'm no fan of Shepherd but if Ashley has taken a hit he's brought most of it on himself with his myopic gambling on staying in the Premiership without investing in the squad.

Watching Bellamy's goal what it brought home to me was what a hatchet job Souness did on what was a gifted squad when he took over. SBR had problems with the introduction of players like Butt and Bowyer into the team but it went downhill on a major scale once Souness started dismantling the legacy left by Robson instead of making one or two needed adjustments. The whole dynamic of the team switched from fast flowing pacy football to watching teams sent out with Butt and Amdy Faye sent out to stop other teams playing (mostly ourselves though).

Which is why it was disappointing he didn't make his point by having a stormer yesterday in his natural position.

He plays when and how he feels like it. If he can be arsed he'll track back, if he can't he'll take a breather. Yes he will try some inventive passing but it seems more of a way of entertaining himself rather than as part of his team effort.

Poor. They only showed Carrols goal from one angle would have been better from a couple. Also missed a few key moments out, maybes to make the game look even. Unless you are featured as one of the main games, the highlights don't seem to be much more than you would see on SSN. It's worth sitting through if you want to see the goals from the other goals I suppose.

Were the highlights any better this week? I saw the goals on SSN and didn't bother watching this as it's been so pap last few times I've tuned in.

I see what you are saying, at work today I was talking to a mackem, and he said in his opinion, it's best to finish 2nd, because if you are champions you are paraded and hailed through out the summer, so eveyone knows about you coming up, and if you win the play off's it's the same. Where as if you finish 2nd, you can just get on with it because no one really takes as much notice. I must admit he has a point, but I think WBA will slip up soon, hopefully to Crystal Palace next week. But I also must say that today I have been proved right, I said Boro haven't really had a test yet, and that I don't think they would stand up to one, and they had one today, and failed big time, play off's at best for them in my opinion. I hope you're right. While it's clear that we are going to do well in this division injuries permitting, we need one of those two to drop off so we are getting automatic promotion. Play offs would be a disaster for us with all the extra pressure it usually puts on the fancied sides.

Yeah let's just leave it at that, I've said all I want to.

I'll go the other way, play whoever you want but pick a formation that suits the players we've got.

I think having bought the club, Ashley has a responsibility to run the club properly, which I don't believe he has done for some time now. If the club is a millstone around his neck then he should get it sold for whatever reasonable price he can IF he really wants to sell. What he can't do is keep putting it up for sale, then winding down operations without selling. If he hires a full time manager, lets him wheel and deal and THEN refuses to accept a set price he would at least have a leg to stand on.

Always thought he was better than some of our other midfielders in any case. Not that it's saying much.

going on the last 2 performances geremi would be in before nolan. Geremi's a far better player than Nolan technically IMO. Neither of them runs much, but for a geriatric I reckon Geremi isn't any slower.

In reality nothing much has changed, Ashley is still asking more for the club than anyone is willing to pay when you take the debt into account. Or perhaps there are people willing to pay what he's asking, but the stumbling block is Barclays and the overdraft. It seems quite a reasonable conclusion to draw that Mort et al can meet the asking price, but are reticent to have to pay off an extra £25m to reduce the overdraft down to Barclays's standard £10m for a Championship club. That money could represent all and more of what they had put aside for transfers and I'd have thought they'd have been very wary indeed of the public reaction should they take over and then have nothing to spend on bringing new players in. Given the general mood of the fans, I'd suggest that any takeover without the means to significantly improve the playing staff would be doomed from the start as the fans simply wouldn't accept it, rightly or wrongly. The overdraft is still a debt, Barclays aren't obliged to loan money to anyone so they have every right to be a stumbling block if Moat or any other buyer is relying on their money to buy the club. Your point? How many times do you want me to make it? So you're trying to say that the actions of Barclays bank are Ashley's responsibility? If you buy a business then you take on its debts as well as its assets, anyone with a brain knows this. It's hardly Ashley's fault that the person who wants to buy his business and with whom he has agreed a price is struggling to prove that he can run it once it's his. Moat would have been aware of the level of the overdraft having done due diligence and it doesn't appear to be a secret that Barclays's standard overdraft for a Championship club is £10m, yet he seems to not have made allowances for that, perhaps he assumed that "We're Newcastle Utd "Big Club"TM, that won't apply to us!". Whatever he thought, it's not Ashley's fault, yet despite that he seems to have done what he can to resolve the issue, firstly by reducing the overdraft and secondly seemingly negotiating a deal with Barclays to let us keep it at £25m, which is two and a half times the amount that they would give to any other club in the same division. It seems to me that if anyone should be getting shit over this it's Moat (just realised I called him Mort before ), but don't let that stop you from believing Ashley is the root of all evil. My calf is hurting today for no apparent reason, perhaps that is Mike Ashley's fault and all, the bastard!!! As it stands, Moat can't afford the club and no one else is buying at that price. So either Ashley sells at the best price he can get or stop putting the club up for sale every six months. Is that too much to ask? Every time the fat bastard puts it on the market we are in limbo for months at a time. Who's choice is that? But Moat CAN afford the club, it costs £100m and he has agreed with Ashley to pay that amount. What he's struggling with is whether he can afford to run the club after he's bought it and that's hardly Ashley's problem is it!?! If he couldn't afford to pay the electric bill or the players' wages, would he go to Ashley and ask for help doing so? No, he wouldn't. This is Moat's problem and it is he who needs to sort it, if he can't do that then what chance has he got of dealing with all the rest of the club's problems? This is a simple one; pay the money and it's solved. The rest of the issues are much harder to sort out, so if he can't solve this one then he's not fit to be in charge of NUFC. Despite everything Ashley seems to be doing what he can to help Moat with this problem, so I don't really see what your point is. As for the whole "club in limbo" thing, well that's what happens when someone's trying to sell a football club. You want him gone, he wants to go, how else do you suggest people get what they want? How's he supposed to sell the club if he doesn't try to sell the club? And if you accept the - preposterous, I know! - rationale that the best way to sell a football club is to... ...er... ...sell a football club, then you have to accept all the things that go along with that, primarily that the club will be somewhat "in limbo" during that process. But the problem with lots of people, especially the modern (Premiership) football fan is that they want to have their cake and eat it. You want Ashley to sell the club, but you don't want to accept the process that goes along with that, well tough-shit, you're going to have to, you may as well get used to it. I'd be interested to know (well not that interested, but you can tell me anyway. ) what your solutions would be and how you expected this to play-out in the first place. I wonder if they're at all realistic. Sorry for the flippant and somewhat antagonistic nature of the above, but I'm absolutely fucking sick of people continually pissing and moaning about this subject with a level of indefatigability of which NE5 would have been proud. Did you really expect this to be a quick and painless process when you were all calling for Ashley's head and how many times over the last year have you had to consciously ignore all the evidence to the contrary to carry on in that belief? Is the mental strain of doing that what's leading people to give serious consideration to ridiculous notions like that Ashley's doing this deliberately or for a bet? Is it easier to believe fantasies like that, rather than accept the reality of the situation? Perhaps it is. I don't know if you want me to answer questions other people have put such as whether Ashley is doing this on purpose but since it's not MY belief I'll just stick to the gripes I have personally. I didn't demand Ashley put the club up for sale, he did this for his own reasons (for the second time). I don't have any problem with him selling the club if someone wants to buy it, but since no one was throwing money at him, why does he have to periodically grind the club to a halt while he puts the boards up? Just run the club as a going concern and if someone wants to buy great. If he's going to bring everything to a virtual halt when he puts the For sale sign up then he should lower his fucking price and get the deal done.

He's certainly changed games when he's come off the bench. I still don't see why he's not been seen as automatic start these past two seasons. Nolan and Barton seem to there ahead of him despite poor performances. Barton has the ability but he's acting as if he's doing us a favour by turning up. Guthrie's a decent player at this level and he'll give 100%. I don't have a problem with Nolan's attitude, but Guthrie's a better player and much more mobile. Him and Smith in the middle should be a match for anyone in this division.