TRon

I take exception at Bernard being called dross like, but a good post nontheless. I also liked Lua Lua. Agree entirely mate. Bernard was my favourite player aside from Shearer for a good season or so. A lot of people thought he/they were s*** though, similarly with the likes of Enrique today. That's what i was getting at. Thanks btw, guys. Nice hearing stuff like that from people even if it is the internet. That photo has been photoshopped. An image of a fit Carl Cort has been added to it I think Yorkie's post makes a fair point, but I think that it relieves the players of any sort of responsibility for their performances. Kinnear isn't the ideal man, we know that, and in truth he probably knows that too. But there are employees in companies all over the world getting decent results in spite of a poor manager. A good manager or a legendary manager like Sir Bobby can be sufficient in producing a good, successful team. But I look around the Premiership and I see the likes of Pulis, Megson, Southgate, Bruce....none of whom strike me as particularly great managers, most of whom I would hate to see at the club, but all getting favourable results with average players. I could probably search Getty and find a picture of Steve McClaren at the UEFA Cup final. How did he get there? Managerial prowess or on the back of a competent group of players who took responsibility for their own performances (and a bit of luck)? I'm not really trying to defend Kinnear, but I don't think this league position is down to him. Sack him, and you are still left with a group of players whose attitude and basic ability are not as unquestionable as some people around here like to think. Managerial incompetence can only drag you down so far. You can't design the sort of bad performances that put you at 17th in the table. You might argue that he is failing to motivate, it may be the case, but I expect better from a group of players with the sort of CVs and wages they have. Kinnear's puzzling tactical decisions and substitutions shouldn't excuse players that aren't pulling their weight, or lack the bottle to defend a lead in the dying minutes of a match. While I would agree with you on most days, that game against Stoke was lost from the touchline. The bench was unbalanced, the substitutions made it worse, and the decision to allow Stoke to dominate us in the second half when we were 2-0 up was a disaster. He can't afford many more fuck ups like that, and I appreciate he was only hired initially as an interim manager.

the fact that we have had to play Ameobi at all tells you we need another striker. If Bellamy was here we'd still have had to play Ameobi. Bellamy was injured at the time Shola was playing. We had some good results in that period btw.

Why do i get the feeling this is just another publicity stunt from someone looking to make a name for himself by associating himself with us?

Who is to say we cant replace him in January or the summer? Its worth the risk, rather than have him here for another 2 years or so Can't we bring someone else in and keep Butt for squad depth? That would be fine if he was a squad player but for the last decade or so he's been here he's an automatic first choice, and I can't see that changing because Kinnear is the manager now. Incidentally, Butt was allegedly brought in by Shepherd over SBR's head, before he arrived we had one of the most dynamic young midfields in the Premier. We've hardly pulled up any trees since then.

It's also a good indication that we won't be looking to buy more players if the likes of Butt are getting new deals.

It's ok Joe realised his mistake a few days later... http://todaysmusings.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/duh.jpg

But wasn't one of the reasons Keegan quit, supposedly because they tried to sell Owen at the end of the last transfer window? Ashley's still in charge, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if he tried to cash in on whatever he can before the sale of the club.... At the time I doubt anyone thought Keegan would have walked and we'd be fighting relegation come Christmas. I doubt he'll be sold in January because it doesn't suit him and the position we are in, it doesn't suit us either.

That's because I'd rather have Zaki and pay what it takes to get him. be interesting to see if zaki is a name anyone will remember this time next year. Or if Newcastle would be on Zaki's radar when it comes to chosing a club in June. For that matter, I doubt Newcastle will be on Heskey's radar when he makes his next move. I think his recent rise has been very overrated, he's not gonna get the cream of the crop after him so his options arent limitless. O'Neill has said he's keen on taking him to Villa so unless he's lying, that's the end of that I reckon.

That's because I'd rather have Zaki and pay what it takes to get him. be interesting to see if zaki is a name anyone will remember this time next year. Or if Newcastle would be on Zaki's radar when it comes to chosing a club in June. For that matter, I doubt Newcastle will be on Heskey's radar when he makes his next move.

That's because I'd rather have Zaki and pay what it takes to get him.

Have to say I agree. While the poem is funny, if the NUSC is serious about wanting dialogue with Ashley, I hardly see how a lot of the stuff up there helps. On the other hand, if the NUSC is an anti-Ashley movement with no intent to work with the current set up then they can do what they want. It just depends on what they want to portray as their stance, at the moment it's very much looking like it's still "Ashley Out" at all costs.

Would help a lot imo as well. You would think that most clubs at this level do this already but with us it's all too easy to believe we don't. I always get the feeling that youngsters are considered a last resort for first team action at Newcastle. For me the sensible thing would be to promote them to the bench when we have injuries in a specific area in the team like - let's say from the top of my head - central midfield.

To be honest, I was just saying what I think when asked the question in the thread header. Sorry, like. Apologies if that is genuinely the case, but it's the impression I get from you the majority of the time in here, whereas in Gen Chat you make fantastic posts like the one about Morocco earlier on. Apology accepted. My posts on Bellamy here may sound a bit sarcastic, because they are, but I am trying to make a point too, and it's a point that I often try to make in a roundabout way -- that we spend far too much time living in the past and mooning around wishfully over long-departed players and managers. Bellamy is history. He should stay that way. The idea is to learn from history. Were you against Peter Beardsley coming back, by the way ? No, that worked out good, but there were different factors at play -- the existing relationship between him and Keegan and how that overlapping history translated into an extremely effective communication between bench and pitch regarding a particular style of play, which was to some extent influenced by both players' experience at Liverpool. Even if Bellamy a) wasn't so plagued by injury that he's been sleeping in a high-altitude tent, b) wasn't currently in very poor goal-scoring form and b) didn't already have a soured and divisive relationship to the club, I'd also doubt whether Joe "Crazy Gang" Kinnear was the right manager to get the best out of him. it might not have worked out. And Bellamy might work out. You can't tell. This isn't about hindsight, its about making a decision. What do you think ? A 29 year old footballer isn't old. The fact is, we need strengthening, and we have to get the best players possible. If a younger player isn't available who is better and we could get him, why would you say no ? I think it's clear I think he's not a player we need at the moment. There are four specific reasons why in the post you quote. A fifth would be that his position is not one of those that needs strengthening as a priority right now. Why would he come here at the moment anyway? I suppose with Owen leaving soon you could make an argument that we will need to bolster the striker pool. I think I'd rather use the £5m to pay Owen what he wants to stay though although he probably still wouldn't if a half decent club gives him an offer.

No.

I think Owen is going to wait to see what other clubs come in before signing any new deal, probably till the summer. So it's a bit pointless whingeing the club should have tied this all up by now, at least post-Keegan. Even with Keegan I'm not sure Owen would have committed unless we were really flying.

I would just leave him out wide which would give us the same starting line up as against Stoke which did ok until Guthrie went off. Added to that, Jonas offers good protection down the flanks when he's out wide. That was another sucker punch when JK's brain imploded with his barmy substitutions, we not only lost Beye at right back, we lost the guy in front of him as well.

The asking price is £10m at the moment. I don't think that's so great but I'm sure Wigan would negotiate...with Villa.

Beyond some base physical characteristics and occupation there is absolutely nothing similar about Keane, Smith and Xisco. edit: Not that Keane was worth £20m, but he was worth a damn sight more than 6m. There game is very similiar imo. Bellamy and Keane are both unselfish can spot a pass, similar kind of workrate. Alot of their work goes unnoticed. Fair comparison i think. Bellamy is quicker, Keane is a better finisher. It would be a Viduka signing all over again, with everyone soon getting pissed off that we were paying him to miss games through injury. His fitness record is terrible and he's sleeping in high altitude tents in a last gasp bid to save his career in his own words. Move on guys.

Before that we just need a midfielder on the bench. If all our other midfielders are injured then...here's a novel idea...why not put a promising 18 yeare old midfielder on the bench just in case we lose one of our midfileders? It's a radical suggestion I know and so risky. ooooh...Lua Lua might die of fright if he had to play 20 mins as a sub....oh lordy lordy anything but that...

Its the sad state of football where I wouldn't say £60k a week for a dangerous striker as being high It's not for one who's playing week in week out. How many games has Bellamy played this season?

He's had injury problems throughout his career, before he came to us, while he was here, and since he's left. For that reason only, I have to reluctantly say no.

his threat is often outweighed by his giving the ball away too easily and poor positioning meaning when we get the ball out it comes straight back. True, but Martins isn't exactly the only player guilty of giving the ball away too easily. We have players in far more volatile positions who give it away just as often if not more often. Players like Viduka only offer a threat when the ball is in the box, which first requires us to be dominating the midfield and actually getting the ball into the box first. As our midfielders aren't good enough to do that, more often than not, we have to rely on the threat of a ball in-behind (or over the top of) the defence instead - there's only Martins in our squad who can really capitalize on that. Opposing managers can blatantly see how limited we are when the game is squeezed, so as soon as that threat in-behind is removed, they literally push their defenders right up into the center of the pitch and laugh as our midfielders shit themselves at the first sign of pressure. This. I think it's worth pointing this out. The amount of stick both Martins and N'Zogbia get for losing the ball is funny when you consider we can't generally get the ball from one end of the pitch to the other without passing to the opposition. Generally those two lose the ball because they are at least trying to go forward with it, if we had enough movement across the pitch I'm sure passing woulkd be a lot easier for attacking players.

Not 100%, but Fat Joe said this today: "But looking ahead to Sunday we'll probably have Butt and Guthrie back and maybe, just maybe, Duff as well." They're back in training and off PhysioRoom.com as well. If he had any sense he'd play the same team that started last week then bring Butt on to replace Geremi once he started to run out of gas. This might be a bit complicated for Kinnear though, so I'm pinning my hopes on Tony Adams making even worse decisions on the day. Clutching at straws but we have to live in hope.

Based on what? Common sense. It's infinitely more likely that he's not than he is. Common sense but you've not seen him play? Wayne Rooney was 16 when he scored for Everton against Arsenal - at the end of the day, if Lua Lua is going to be good enough, the only way he'll get there is by playing football, and I'm not talking reserve or U18 stuff. It's Catch 22 but at the end of the day kids don't develop sat on their arse or playing against Whitley Bay in the NSC. Somewhat unlikely he'll be the next Rooney but he should be getting game time against teams like Stoke at 2-0 up with no other midfield options - if in five years he's not improved, fair enough, but when the alternative is shuffling everyone else out of position and hoying two points down the drain, I'll take my chances tbh. I think you'll agree that Rooney is literally a one in a million case. And believe me, if we actually had a Rooney, we'd know. I agree, he should be getting game time against teams like Stoke at 2-0 up. What I don't agree with is the extremists who think he should get a starting place just because Butt and Duff are shit. There's no way he's ready for that and it would just torpedo his confidence. The thread wasn't about throwing kids into the first team picture because it feels exciting. We had a bench against Stoke which didn't contain one single midfielder, despite the fact we have three first team central midfielders out injured before Guthrie limped off. Instead of giving one of our more promising young midfielders a place on the bench...I repeat - just a place on the fucking bench - we ended up playing Beye on the right wing and throwing away a crucial 2 points. I find that sort of bone-headed management unforgiveable tbh. Straight out of the Graeme Souness school of decision making.

Kaz on the right, Jonas on the left. Or in the middle with Butt or Guthrie, depending on who's fit. Toss up between a place for him or Zog, id probably go for Zog. Cant have him in the middle, will get dominated very very easily if you ask me. If he's not a better midfielder than Habib Beye then he shouldn't be at the club.