TRon

Well they appeared to be backing KK as well to all intents and purposes. If Joe thinks he has been brought here on an interim basis and is suddenly going to have the final say on transfers he's in for a rude awakening. I have to say I'm glad about that as well. I think the transfer business has been one of the plus points of the Ashley era, other than the fact we didn't spend enough. Kind of go hand-in-hand though don't you think? I know what you're getting at btw and to some extent I agree. The signings have been generally decent squad fillers but there wasn't enough of them obviously. I can't say I trust Kinnear in the transfer market which is why I am glad he won't have a free hand tbh. I have a feeling that any players coming in will be ones we have targeted previously like Skjelbred or Larsson, possibly Warnock. If JK comes up with a decent shout I'm sure it'll be considered.

Well they appeared to be backing KK as well to all intents and purposes. If Joe thinks he has been brought here on an interim basis and is suddenly going to have the final say on transfers he's in for a rude awakening. I have to say I'm glad about that as well. I think the transfer business has been one of the plus points of the Ashley era, other than the fact we didn't spend enough.

It doesn't matter how much is offered, it'll alway be that he's asking too much. If any sale doesn't go through, then yes. He says he's desperate to get away. How desperate? If he's desperate to sell he'll cover his losses or make a small profit and get the deal done. If he wants to keep the club he needs to start running it like a proper club and invest money. On the other hand if he wants to keep the club and NOT invest, he is just bleeding the club dry and putting it's future at stake. That's really all there is to it.

Whiteside, McGrath and Bryan Robson made up Man U's midfield when Fergie first took over at Man U, and they were similar to some of the midfields we've had to watch such as Butt, Geremi and Barton. All quality players in their own right but collectively turgid and slow. As for Arsenal I was talking pre-Vierra. In fact with that one signing Arsene Wenger went a long way to transforming Arsenal from an ordinairy side into a different team altogether. It just shows how one crucial signing in the centre of the pitch can have a massive impact on a side. I would love us to sign a Viera to replace Butt, someone who bosses the midfield from box to box rather than just win the odd flash sliding tackle. In fact having watched Joey Barton since he came back in the side, I think he could play that role. He tends to sit deep these days and doesn't get up and down the pitch. But from a deep lying role he could dictate the game IMO. He could influence it far more than Butt ever will.

That I agree with, my worry is we have been phasing him out for the last 4 years and he's still here! I thought we'd finally got shot when he went to Birmingham but no, they welched on the deal! I know what you are saying Rich and in fact, I would agree that he's had a few decent games this season. But he's one of the players who is seriously affecting the way we play. Sooner or later we are going to have to be brave and followFergie and Wenger's lead...get rid of the rusty, slow veterans clogging up the midfield and get some youth and movement where it matters...in the engine room. Think Alex Ferguson when he moved on Norman Whiteside and Paul MacGrath to clear the decks for the new guard. That's what i'm talking about.

He's being ordered to sell players especially cunts like Chimbonda (what a surprise that didn't work out). All that money spent on mercenaries and they are still fighting relegation. What a disastrous job he's done.

In fairness, he's hardly saying he's going to walk straight back into the team is he? I think some of this outrage needs to be chanelled at the prospect of Butt getting another contract rather than Smith who's still 6 weeks away. I disagree massively with that as well. Anyone who thinks we can't afford to keep Nicky Butt on (especially if it's just a one year extension) is extremely, extremely deluded if you ask me. Have people learned nowt from the Gary Speed sale? Aye, his best days are behind him and his performances on the park haven't been amazing recently (though he has had some very, very good games this season), but the impact of removing someone of that type from the squad can be massively damaging. People have to stop looking at things from simply a performance/irrational perspective. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that. The prospect of losing Harper, Owen and Butt from the dressing room (for nowt) as much as from the pitch is a massive negative, IMO. By the same token, these guys like to mingle with their own so while they might get on like a house on fire amongst themselves, there can sometimes be splits in the camp between senior pros and younger/foreign players. It was similar at Liverpool and Chelsea when the foreign managers came in and started bringing overseas players in, the old guard obviously didn't like it but they were culled from the squad if they weren't of the required quality. If the likes of Butt goes and say Guthrie takes up the reigns, I think our team will start to develop. If Guthrie isn't up to it then we need to look at getting a younger replacement for Butt in any case like Shearergol suggested. Butt belongs at a club like Fulham or Sunderland at this stage of his career. You could be right, of course, as neither of us really know what goes on behind closed doors at NUFC, but as far as I recall KK was all for giving him an extension (along with Harper and Owen) which was/is good enough for me. If I was confident we could replace him with someone a bit younger and of an undoubted higher quality then I would agree that it might be time to call it a day, but I honestly think we'd just end up worse off. Hopefully he'll stick around until the new owners/manager come in and I'll be happy to bow to their judgement on him, but personally I feel he could be an important player for us for this season and beyond, although by no means an automatic starter (as he seems to be now.) I know when Souness went and Nigel Pearson took temporary charge Nicky Butt was one of the first to start pointing fingers at certain players (it didn't take much to work out Zog was one of them) and again we have leaks from the dressing room casting doubt over the same player. There does seem to be a bit of an old boys club at Newcastle and I think we suffer from it as much as benefit. If Nicky Butt's type of player is so essential it makes you wonder why Arsene Wenger isn't in for him? Don't they need a leader in midfield who can protect the back four? Will he swoop with a shock £1.5 m bid in January? or maybe not.

In fairness, he's hardly saying he's going to walk straight back into the team is he? I think some of this outrage needs to be chanelled at the prospect of Butt getting another contract rather than Smith who's still 6 weeks away. I disagree massively with that as well. Anyone who thinks we can't afford to keep Nicky Butt on (especially if it's just a one year extension) is extremely, extremely deluded if you ask me. Have people learned nowt from the Gary Speed sale? Aye, his best days are behind him and his performances on the park haven't been amazing recently (though he has had some very, very good games this season), but the impact of removing someone of that type from the squad can be massively damaging. People have to stop looking at things from simply a performance/irrational perspective. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that. The prospect of losing Harper, Owen and Butt from the dressing room (for nowt) as much as from the pitch is a massive negative, IMO. By the same token, these guys like to mingle with their own so while they might get on like a house on fire amongst themselves, there can sometimes be splits in the camp between senior pros and younger/foreign players. It was similar at Liverpool and Chelsea when the foreign managers came in and started bringing overseas players in, the old guard obviously didn't like it but they were culled from the squad if they weren't of the required quality. If the likes of Butt goes and say Guthrie takes up the reigns, I think our team will start to develop. If Guthrie isn't up to it then we need to look at getting a younger replacement for Butt in any case like Shearergol suggested. Butt belongs at a club like Fulham or Sunderland at this stage of his career.

who's fault is that? Ashley : " Role up, role up, we've got a lovely north east club here, yours for just £299m, warra bargain, only on offer, come and get your frills, tears and joys for the bargain price of under £300m, once in a lifetime oppurtunty ladies and gents" Ashley has been quick enough to tell us how much he's put into the club. He doesn't need to give an exact figure at which he would be happy to sell, if he would just come out and say he isn't prepared to sell the club at a loss I would understand.

who's fault is that? Noone's, we don't have the right to know imo. In that case why put out the word that the offers were too low?

In fairness, he's hardly saying he's going to walk straight back into the team is he? I think some of this outrage needs to be chanelled at the prospect of Butt getting another contract rather than Smith who's still 6 weeks away.

who's fault is that?

Owen will keep stringing Joe along and Joe will keep blabbing how certain he is he can get a deal done, but nothing will happen until Owen sees if he can get an offer from one of the better placed clubs. As for Butt, I can't see how the powers that be will be prepared to offer him another contract if they are stalling over Owen's. Butt must be one of the bigger earners at the club and at his age should not be offered another big pay day.

Like I said in the NUSC thread, I would like to know what price Ashley is willing to sell at. Obviously no one is prepared to pay £280-300million suggested by Keith Harris, but seeing that Ashley himself has only paid around £240m there was surely some leeway for lowering the price to encourage a sale? Is he desperate to sell or not? If he intends to keep the club he has to invest in it properly otherwise he risks doing irreperable damage and there will be hell on if he's seen to be milking the club while it limps along on the cheap. I think we need some clarification as to Ashley's intentions.

An exodus of which players exactly? Owen is probably leaving in any case, other than that who is there to get that worked up about? Well nothing to really get worked up about but if I was currently in the team I'd be wondering how the future is going to pan out here. Everythings just so short term at the moment. I just hope we don't have to replace players too much, I'd rather just add to this tiny squad. Obviously theres some players I'd love to see the back of but we don't really have much choice but to keep them right now.. I'm not specifically talking about who leaves, rather how many could leave thats all. i think most of the over-paid, under-achieving wasters on our books are sweating over getting new deals rather than walking away tbh. Owen and Given are the only ones who might get a better club, the rest can fuck off tomorrow as far as I'm concerned.

The problem with changing managers on a regular basis is that every new man ends up giving big name wasters like Smith and Duff too many games before the penny drops that they are woeful. Hopefully the form of Owen, Martins and Viduka will mean Smith won't get a sniff by the time he is fit.

An exodus of which players exactly? Owen is probably leaving in any case, other than that who is there to get that worked up about?

If Mike Ashley is still trying to sell the club, there's no way in Hell he will make big money signings. Sell to buy is the way it will be, I would imagine there will be more Guthrie/Bassong deals in the pipeline if we do make any moves in the transfer market. Alternatively, if there isn't a buyer anywhere to be found, he'll win a good portion of the fanbase over if he does plough some money in - because let's face it, a lot of supporters are as fickle as feck. As it stands, the situation is untenable and something needs to be done to remedy it if a sale is not forthcoming. I think we are at a crossroads as far as selling the club goes, and Kinnear's appointment till the end of a season gives us some breathing space. By the start of next year, either Ashley will drop the price of the club or decide to stay on. Either way I would expect a proper managerial appointment next season. At this current time I don't really see what could have been done differently as far as JK goes. My only gripe is that the price of the club should have been dropped earlier for a sale to go through, but that's another subject.

If Mike Ashley is still trying to sell the club, there's no way in Hell he will make big money signings. Sell to buy is the way it will be, I would imagine there will be more Guthrie/Bassong deals in the pipeline if we do make any moves in the transfer market.

I am changing my prediction from the earlier 1-1 to a 2-1 away win. It's just one of those occasions when everything is falling into place at the right time.

A sensible view assuming the club is still for sale and the buyers haven't pulled out which is a different issue. Unfortunately we can't force anyone to buy the club quickly so a new manager can be appointed, so this is the best alternative as things stand. By all means everyone carry on lamenting though, why let the facts get in the way of a good whinge?

Not necessarily, even if the sale goes through after the new year it makes sense to give JK a contract till the end of the season to provide some stability. New owners could leave him in charge till the end of the season or pay him off if they want to bring someone in straight away.

At least that's a coherent argument which I agree with to some extent. I just feel that Shola provides a battering ram alternative which could be useful in a squad if he's not costing a lot in wages. The only similar player we have is Carroll and I'm not sure he's as effective at the moment anyway.

Has it been confirmed that Duff is definitely out? I don't want to build up my hopes only have my world come crashing down

By the same token, which self-respecting club would be renewing Butt's contract and putting him first name on the team sheet? Or buying Liverpool reserves and putting them straight into their first team? All that is being suggested is that Shola be given a contract so he can be a RESERVE target man. We can still spend £20m on a first team striker by all means. Great argument: we're already the laughing stock of the Premiership, so we might as well continue to make ridiculous decisions.. The bit you bolded was in fact your argument. I've bolded the correct bit that was relevant to my view.