TRon

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/nufc/newcastle-united-news/2008/10/31/michael-owen-and-nicky-butt-back-in-training-72703-22156700/ That was us going for broke?

Sums my feelings up perfectly, point 1 should of been nailed with there very first public statement. Good post. its good, but what would help the NUSC is to have some high profile people on their side, to publicly raise the stakes and the newsworthiness of it all, like Malcolm Dix did. You need to have the objectives sorted first before you start thinking about backers/publicity. Sorry for the corporate analogy again, but the thing that happens with a company is that they set out a memorandum of association which sets out the goals and objectives of the company. This is what should have happened with NUSC. The committee should then be appointed to run the SC on the basis of those clearly defined objectives. Those key objectives, like my points above, should be page 1 of any leaflet, website, publication. I would personally like to see someone on the committee who is independent i.e. isn't associated in any way with the running of NUSC or connected in any way to the other committee members, whose sole job is to monitor the actions of NUSC to see if they are complying with these objectives. I also think that different parts of the committee should focus on the different objectives to ensure that all objectives are being pursued i.e. a member whose job it is to find the best ways possible to gather supporter opinion, and not get involved in any other aspect etc. You have to get the basic setup right, otherwise despite your best intentions you end up looking like a single issue focus group, which to be honest it is starting to look like. I think the sticking point is no 3 which you have raised. From what I have seen put out by NUSC their whole point of existence seems to be based on ousting Ashley so I find it difficult to see how they will be able to reconcile themselves to working with his organisation in the event the club isn't sold. NUSC is a half-baked pressure group and that's how it should be treated until it's earned the right to be viewed otherwise.

I actually that's a tricky decision in most circumstances, but Martins has been so poor in the last two games. I'd start Martins against Villa, then bring Owen on from the bench. Whoever does best, I'd start the following week. I'd like to see Owen earn his place, rather than walk straight back in. He is our top goalscorer & captain I think that means he walks straight back in. I think he might start on the bench for Villa, as he's coming back from injury. Owen wasn't particularly impressive when he played as a striker last season in any case. His best performances were in a withdrawn role. He's been playing as a striker this season and still scored 5 goals. Not sure what much else he can do to prove he's still a top striker tbh. I wasn't really doubting that he's a top striker, I was looking at how he fits in the framework of the team as a whole. He seemed much more effective in the withdrawn role last season I don't think anyone would argue that. Yes he's scored goals this season but then so has Oba but he still comes in for criticism for other aspects of his game doesn't he? Owen has also been criticised for just being a goal scorer through his career, so there is a question who is the best person to pair him with. I think it might be Shola, whether it will work we'll have to wait and see. Owen's best work last season was with Martins in the side as well as Viduka. Because for all his shitness, Martins stretches teams and creates space for the likes of Owen.

I actually that's a tricky decision in most circumstances, but Martins has been so poor in the last two games. I'd start Martins against Villa, then bring Owen on from the bench. Whoever does best, I'd start the following week. I'd like to see Owen earn his place, rather than walk straight back in. He is our top goalscorer & captain I think that means he walks straight back in. I think he might start on the bench for Villa, as he's coming back from injury. Owen wasn't particularly impressive when he played as a striker last season in any case. His best performances were in a withdrawn role.

Both right, I've been saying for ages that doing 'anything' isn't always better than doing nothing - in fact this is a prime example of how hasty action can be harmful. "There are risks and costs to action. But they are far less than the long range risks of comfortable inaction." - JFK (the other one) If you don't like what NUSC are doing, get yourself along to the meetings and have your say. If there were only 50 there, you'd have had an excellent opportunity to put your point across. I don't think they're expressing themselves particularly well, and in the short term I don't think any kind of protest or boycott will make any difference one way or the other. I'm sure in the future I'll disagree with a lot of their objectives, but I'm not going to sit here and criticise them for standing up and at least attempting to put across a consensus opinion and initiate some action. I've said it before, but if you're so convinced Ashley is selling up because of protests, start your own group up to show him the level of support he has. You're not going to persuade him to stay just by sniping and whining on the internet about other people getting off their arse and acting on their beliefs. Its not about supporting Ashley or wanting him to stay necessarily. It's more about the downright ignorance these so-called spokespeople have displayed, and I for one, frankly, do not wish to be tarred with the same brush. They DO NOT represent Newcastle United fans, yet that's what the media will pick up on. Just exactly what they need: more "loudmouth over-expectant dilusional Geordies" to take the piss out of this is the sort of comment that makes no sense, nor is it true at all, and it applies to numerous occasions over the years too. Nobody thinks they represent the views of all NUFC fans. Nobody also "takes the piss" out of Newcastle United any more than any other club, in fact, if anything, its a lot less. The world doesn't revolve around phone ins and internet message boards. Yet people go on these phone ins, listen to them, go onto message boards and see people taking the piss. Its the nature of the beast and means fuck all. JOurnalists in London etc have always, always found something to snipe at Newcastle United for - and other clubs. They always will. If we weren't having a hard time - and when we weren't - they still criticised the club for having a shit defence that "threw away the league" and other such bollocks. Fans all over the country laugh at manu gloryseeking supporters, I do, yet deep down if you said you weren't jealous of their success [and support accordingly] you'd be lying. If anything, the success that puts you more in the public eye only fuels this jealousy. At the end of the day, get into europe, sign top players, get you're own fans behind you, and what else matters ? Do you not agree with the following Steve Wraith NUFC.com Alan Oliver Being accepted outside of Newcastle United fans as being a representative voice of what is going on at the club? Steve and Alan are often on national radio and TV and are always introduced as if they are the final word on what is going on inside the club or what the fans believe. NUFC.com struck gold with the domain name and rightly or wrongly are noted as being the 'official unoffical' website of the club. Now somebody claiming to be a spokesperson of the Newcastle United Supporters Club, how is that going to be reported within the media - my hunch is that given the chance the press will jump at tagging this group as the new power representative of the fans (despite only 50 people turning up to their latest meeting - put that in context, in the 3 villages surrounding where I live there is a population of less than 2,000 people, more than 500 turned up to protest against a mine being reopened, the %s don't even compare). The sentiment in the rest of your post I agree with I realise they will give the impression that they are speaking for all supporters - I've discussed this with Dave with ref to Frank Gilmour - you can't help if the press give this impression, but they should where possible say they are only speaking for the organisation. People who read general press coverage will think all supporters will be of this mindset, thats natural - its not right, but its a natural thought process. What strikes me is they are now getting into the same areas where Malcolm Dix campaigned for years, maybe without realising it, and like most supporters at the time, I personally fully agreed with him ie main agenda was to get rid of a shite board. The funny(?) thing is that I'd wager that the majority of fans still want rid of Ashley, maybe the depth of feeling is subsiding over time but even those of us who agreed in principle with where he was taking the club appreciate that his intentions here have failed (whether his primary motive was sustained organic growth or quick stabalisation and sale). However, I'd also wager that within this majority the majority are dead set against the protests and boycotts as they are putting the club and fans in a bad light and in many ways devaluing the one major asset the club has - i.e. its support base. Comments alluding to only supporting an owner if they do exactly what a small supporters group wants (and I doubt that at such a fledgling stage even the forerunners of the group are 100% sure what that is) will do nothing to someone looking at the club. It may only be part of the picture an investor will look at, but if its an investor which is looking to take the club forward (a la SJH's days pre floatation - at which point the blueprint changed imo) then he will consider this to be a big black spot on the prospectus its difficult to know what to do for the best, I agree in principle with what you say. Someone interested in the club would be put off by the perception that if they don't do what a group of supporters want they will get flak, or if they aren't allowed to run the club the way they see fit they will get flak too. Keegan shouldn't be made out to be a pre-condition of getting support from supporters, which may have been the case initially but is now probably subsiding. Ashley has got the message. As people have pointed out, sportsdirect.com is still selling stuff like hot cakes so boycotting that isn't going to work. I was disappointed to see people buying food and beer from inside the ground, which is still going on. We may have to wait for a drop in ticket sales to bring the sale about, hopefully not in conjunction with a relegation. Wanting Ashley out is only part of the equation. For that to happen someone also has to want to buy the club. For me the big problem of the NUSC is that it will put off prospective buyers with their militant stance encouraging boycotts and the like. There are no guarantees that we will be bought so creating antagonism is counter-productive in my view. Ashley IMO wants to sell, but if he's asking too high a price there won't be any buyers regardless of all the fuss the supporters make. Let the market run it's course I say.

That money goes to the club and towards paying Owen's wages, not Ashley though. If you want to hurt Ashley directly I suppose boycotting Sports Direct would be the way to go. I was in the Metro Centre last week and it didn't look like it was being boycotted though. The place was absolutely heaving. I dont give a fuck where it goes I wont be paying £2.10 for a bottle of pop regardless if Mike Ashley or any other fucker is in charge. It's a pricey bottle of pop that's for sure. The football boots at Sports Direct are very reasonable though.

That money goes to the club and towards paying Owen's wages, not Ashley though. If you want to hurt Ashley directly I suppose boycotting Sports Direct would be the way to go. I was in the Metro Centre last week and it didn't look like it was being boycotted though. The place was absolutely heaving.

I am 100% certain that Jol would have loved to get the Newcastle job. I did think when he was sacked that it was partly his own fault for building such a lop-sided squad. He bought some great attacking players though. Incidentally, am i the only one who thinks it's quite funny that 'arry has been told he won't have any money to spend in January?

I tend to think the defence & midfield that played the other night is our best (which is average or below average by Premiership standards) it is in only attack where am I left wondering what is the best mix is. I don't count Xisco atm, I think it is fair to say Owen will start for the games he is fit, so it Shola V Oba for other spot. I can see JFK going with Shola Xisco and Owen together looked toothless in the couple of games they played together which were disastrous. I don't mind if Joe wants to give Ameobi and Owen a run, if only to see if Owen can read any of Shola's knock ons, but I think we might be disappointed.

We don't need to get relegated to get rid of over-paid wasters, just stop handing out daft salaries to ordinairy players. Something which is already being addressed by the current regime.

Does anyone think when Owen returns he should replace Martins in the side then? If Martins is so bad surely it would make more sense to play Owen alongside Shola or Xisco?

last season i had him as the pick of our defenders (defensivly...beye was the pick all round). i was always confident that no-one would get past him but i think he only crossed the half way 3 times in all that time. I stuck up for Enrique for the same reason. He has the odd Taylor moment but defensively he was very solid last season, and his main weakness was his reluctance to get forward. Although when he did get down the flank he used the ball quite well usually. I still think he'll come good this season if he gets a decent run in the team.

Someone compared him unfavourably to David Kelly for similar reasons. Kelly's teamwork and link play was very good, but if you stuck two David Kelly's together you wouldn't get goals, they'd be marked pretty comfortably by half decent defenders. While I do accept that Martins doesn't always pick the best option, he does threaten the defences with his speed, shooting and ability to go past people. He can sometimes thread the odd corking pass as well.

thats not quite how i see it joe. Makes you wonder what he's watching in training?

If he's that bad how come he'll cost at least £2m? I'd pay you that much to keep him tbh.

If he didn't have those faults he'd be worth £30m...I doubt we'd have been able to buy him for £10m.

Are other clubs as bad as us though? It gets stupid sometimes IMO. Maybe it's the price we pay for having passionate fans, I mean you don't see it happening at Fulham but then they don't have any atmosphere anyway. Our fans are like Obafemi Martins...you have to take the good with the bad.

That's why I said the wording was wrong - I think stating that new owners will be judged on actions not words would have been a better way of putting it (though with a possibly more polite slant). "Enemy" implies a threat which is too strong which is why I'd argue that a co-operative and "honest" owner would see benefits from involving a supporter's group rather than emphasising the negative. Tbh, every time NUSC say something in public they end up sticking their foot in it. If it was once you could put it down to teething troubles, but every time man? One track anti-Ashley agendas, crass veiled threats to future investors...hwo they expect to be taken seriously when they are putting out an image of near-sighted rabble rousers I don't know.

Wouldn't it be better to wait until someone's actually bought the club before drawing attention to just what a massive spanner in the works you can be to potential buyers?

Love the way you write half a page listing all of Martins faults but at the end grudgingly admit we still need him Love the way you ignore the fact that beggars can't be choosers - that is what I was saying, and NUFC ARE beggars in today's Prem ; IF Martins scores 20 goals and saves us from relegation, THEN I may agree he is a top Prem striker...Do you see this happening ? Right now, we even need Ameobi , but only because we have nobody else..get the picture..!?? I don't think anyone is arguing he is a top prem striker as he has a ways to go before we can say that. However, to claim, as some have done, that he is no good is just silly. He is certainly one of our most useful players. Exactly. Obviously I'd prefer Tevez or Adebayor but given the standard of most of our players I always find it strange when people keep moaning about Martins faults. When we spend £20m on a top class striker I'll be the first one to say he should be dropped, until then I'm quite glad he's here.

it's called basic football ability. I was being sarcastic about he rest of the team I know. Sadly it's true though.

Bassong and Cacapa are so far ahead of Taylor it's daft man Taylor is in the team as the big stopper. Those two are far better defenders but pair them with Coloccini and we might be vulnerable in the air. We are even with Taylor in there tbh.

the reason Wise has been watching Watford? Another budget signing.

it's called basic football ability.

It gets on my wick when that happens. Also if the ball is being played around to keep possession you'll get the crowd urging the players to get it upfield and that adds pressure. It's the same in every other ground as well though, at least we provide better backing than most when we've got something to shout about.