TRon

When did he decide that? After going 2-0 up or after 80 mins? The difference is crucial.

Maybe they should have pushed up the pitch more then? Barton in particular seemed to drop further and further back as the game went on. Maybe a fitness issue?

So do I. It's not just about cups and medals, it's about trust and playing the right way. Keegan's hard work for an owner but worth it for what he brings to the club: stability and the goodwill of the fans.

Xisco has only played in crisis situations so far. I did notice that when he won a header he tried to direct it to another player, whereas Ameobi just jumped high and let it bounce of his head in whichever direction it chose.

But don't you also learn a lot about players when the going gets tough? A fair few players are made to look good if the rest of the team are doing well. Yes, but you can only judge them when you have seen them in both situations. Xisco has only played in crisis situations so far. I did notice that when he won a header he tried to direct it to another player, whereas Ameobi just jumped high and let it bounce of his head in whichever direction it chose.

Kinnear has come on tv and said we shouldn't have sat back and pushed forward more. If he's saying one thing in the dressing room and another on tv it's a dead cert he will lose the players confidence. I can't believe he'd be that stupid but who knows?

Thought it was typical of Xisco's luck that he came on when we were playing absolute shit in the second half. We would have learned a lot more about him if he'd been playing the first half when there was some decent supply and willing runners around the penalty area.

Both Shola and Martins provide moments of individual threat but their team play is erratic. Against that, the alternative strikers seem to disappear from the game altogether so it's catch 22 in some ways.

I don't know why everyone is saying we were hoofing the ball upfield. Given kicked the ball out a lot, but a lot of the long balls were often precise passes to forwards on the break, most of which were wasted due to bad final balls or sloppy finishing. You would have to question why we didn't push up more at 2-0 in the second half.

I haven't seen us play such frightened football since Allardyce's time here. Kinnear has said we should have went for it so I can only assume the players lost their way or ran out of gas. What should have been a massive confidence booster has ended up raising as many questions as answers. Shocking tbh.

Class. That's going in my sig for now.

If we are going to play an attacking midfield against anyone, it might as well be West Brom. I'm confident it will work as long as we defend as a team Jonas-style when we don't have the ball. I will be interested to see how Guthrie does as for me he's only going to establish himself in Butt's role. I hope and pray he will do well and banish Butt to the bench forever and ever. Amen.

There are three options which come to mind with how to get through this period for me: 1) Keep Joe Kinnear as manager on a monthly contract until the club is sold assuming a sale is imminent. 2) Take the club off the market and appoint a full time manager in Kinnear's place. 3) Keep whining about how the club has gone backwards, lament Keegan and the board every day in every way. While many have gone for option 3 that doesn't actually help us in the situation we find ourselves, so I still feel option 1 is the way to go.

Agree with most of that. A win today should be achieved if the strikers deliver, and that should ease the pressure on Kinnear. A bit daft to be going overboard with the criticism after one bad result however disappointing. JK is only an interim manager and seeing as we aren't in a position to make a permanent appointment yet, it's a bit daft to be whinging.

jesus christ Barton and Guthrie should start tonight and if we win it will make it difficult for Joe to change the side for the Villa match. Butt and Barton might work if you have two exceptionally quick and hard working wide men either side. Personally though I think Butt's too old and creaky to cover the ground like Guthrie would. Same goes for Geremi which is why i wouldn't put him in the middle either.

It's worth mentioning that January's still some way off. If Duff has many more abject performances like Saturday, his place should be under threat. If Zog gets back in the team and performs who knows?

No problem with it really. Pay the asking price or fuck off.

But if Sholas fading why not change it up? Because he's scoring?

Not really. Perhaps it's just because they hired shit DoFs. Also, your average British manager will baulk at the suggestion of having someone else do the transfers. Seems to work okay for continental clubs. Lyon and Sevilla in particular have dug up some real gems over the past few years and had cracking sides, making huge piles of cash in the transfer market to boot. At both clubs, DoFs are responsible for signings. I think that, if done well, the DoF system provides more continuity as managers/trainers change. In England, you generally expect it to take a couple of years at least till a manager has "his" squad in place. I am not arguing that it couldn't have worked, but for it to have been accepted over here, either Spurs or Newcastle really needed to make it work. The fact that both clubs are giving up on it, whether through choice or otherwise means the British experiment is more or less over for now at least. Maybe at a lower level like QPR it can be experimented with but I doubt any decent Premiership clubs will go down that route in a hurry for the moment.

I don't really think it failed at Newcastle in all honesty. Wise has only operated one transfer window at this club. We sold some dead wood and got in some decent players. People are disappointed we didn't replace Milner, but hey we got 12 million pounds for him. Then the manager resigns, fans revolt, and the owner begins to sell up. That is hardly a fair assessment of any "system" in all honesty. Newcastle United is a failure more than anything really. I'm not passing a final verdict on the system, it might well work elsewhere, and I agree we did reasonably well in the transfer market but the end result still has to be classed a failure at Newcastle. If the owner is selling up, the fans are unhappy, the team is in a relegation spot and the manager has gone....how else can you judge it?

Whatever the merits or pitfalls of the DoF system, the fact that it has failed with both Spurs and Newcastle means the debate is over in this country. Spurs have ditched it, once our club gets a new buyer, I think ours will go the same way. End of.

The best way of controlling such a large mob is probably to throw a hand grenade into the rowdier sections. That should stop them getting onto the pitch.

I thought the wall was a bit odd as well. It was like Shay was inviting Richardson to shoot for that side so the keeper would know where it was going.