tmonkey

Using the same logic, would you say that Lampard is a better midfielder than Xavi? I'd certainly rather have Lampard in my team tbh Hmm...it's your opinion Let's take this further then. Would you say that Lampard has been a better midfielder for Chelsea than Zinedine Zidane was for Madrid, given that Lampard for Chelsea has double the goals and assists Zidane has in the same number of games for Madrid?

Using the same logic, would you say that Lampard is a better midfielder than Xavi?

Ginola was the more talented player without a shadow of a doubt for me. Great dribbling and touch, excellent crosser, two footed, could score good goals, good passer of the ball. A winger who could go down the flank and cross it with pace and accuracy, or cut inside and do damage. Personally think he was unfairly criticised by many fans for "not producing" in the second half of that season, when the problem wasn't so much him, but teams doubling up on him after Gillespie's injury which had left Ginola as the only real winger in the side. Robert, although a different type of winger to Ginola, wasn't as talented overall, and may have been stronger in the goalscoring department, however for me he was hit and miss with regards to what he would produce when found in good situations. Not as intelligent a player as Ginola, and didn't have that deft touch or ability to fool or turn a defender like Ginola had. For example, if the ball crossed in from the right wing came to Robert on the edge of the box, and defenders were closing him down/likely to block him, he'd still go for the shot. Ginola on the other hand would turn or feint to work and opening and get enough room for a shot (imo that's what the better, more talented footballers will usually do). On some days Robert's directness would have led to goals, on plenty of others he'd have wasted a good opportunity. N'Zogbia still has the potential to be a pretty good winger imo. A winger who can perform his defensive duties adequately, whilst also being dangerous going forward - pace, shooting, dribbling, even a mean whipped in cross, Zog has a good arsenal in his locker, just none of the consistency needed to turn rare moments of brilliance into good form over the course of a season, nor does he have the understanding of how to play a team game to turn his abilities into a dangerous weapon as opposed to a frustrating limitation ( i.e. pass and move with rare bouts of dribbling/skill/tricks in between, instead of head down and dribble into brick walls every time). He's still only 22 though, and it's worth noting that Ginola and Robert were both 26 iirc before they came here. That's four seasons N'Zogbia has to improve - pretty sure Ginola/Robert weren't tearing down trees at that age. It'd be easy to argue that Zog probably won't improve because he still has the same flaws he showed during his breakthrough season, similar to the likes Jenas or Dyer or Martins, and whilst that's probably quite likely, I'd also note that Zog had been pissed around for the past few years at this club, ever since the has-been Duff was signed to replace him as a trophy signing to cover over the weak squad and the glaring lack of reinforcements in various positions. Unlike the others mentioned therefore, there is a possible explanation or valid reason as to why he may not have improved during this time.

At his best, a better player than C.Ronaldo by some margin imo, especially in the big games where his silky skill and guile consistently caused the top teams major problems.

He's 23?! One year is nothing. If it was someone like Viduka or a player wrong side of 30 fair enough. One year is alot. Especially when there's a World Cup at the end of it. Whether you think he's capable or not, Bassong will almost certainly believe himself to be good enough to make that final French squad for South Africa 2010, a competition all higher calibre players will be desperate to play in, and it's a nailed on certainty that he'll be overlooked for selection if he's plying his trade with us in the Championship. If he's at the end of his career or an established international, like Di Livio or Del Piero, players who stuck by their respective clubs despite demotion to the lower divisions, being in the lower leagues wouldn't matter. Bassong isn't at that stage of his career. He needs to be playing in the top flights, and ideally in European competitions, if he has any real ambition and wants the recognition that despite his faults he does deserve. He'll be thinking that should he manage to sign for a good team, e.g. Arsenal, and also manages to have a good season with them playing in Europe and at the top end of the Premiership, with him playing alongside far more competent teammates, under far less constant pressure all game, and under signficantly better management, he'll have a massive chance of getting a callup to the national team. And in all honesty, he'd be both correct and justified to think that.

Wouldn't disagree too much with that assessment. Just remember to hand a few % to good 'ol Fred. Ashley forfeited the right to blame Shepherd when he admitted he'd not even checked the books tbh. We certainly weren't going anywhere good but Ashley's tenure has accelerated our downfall more than any of us could imagine. I'm pretty sure Otter is referring to THIS mess. Hmmmm don't know bout that like. there's a fair few think sam would have took us down and with where fred had us financially.....well, at least as bleak as it is now. ashley may have forfeited the right,doesn't mean we weren't in that position. I'm not saying we weren't s*** before Ashley came in, far from it. Unfortunately though we'll never know whether we'd have gone downhill quite this fast. What we do know is that Ashley's tenure has been an utter disaster and only a tiny proportion of it is not of his (or the people he appointed/employed) own doing. Us being in the s*** financially beforehand doesn't explain or excuse the vast majority of the catastrophic decisions he and his people have made. Although Ashley is most at fault for the current mess, having appointed and backed the wrong people to run the club (Llambias, Wise) and failed to see the importance of keeping Keegan on board, I personally think Shepherd's mismanagement of the club post Sir Bobby has had a big hand in undermining Ashley's plans for this club. It's not merely a case of due diligence not being performed by Ashley and the resultant debt he had to personally finance scuppering any plans of a quick revival. The reputation of the club itself was in tatters by the time Ashley took over - not only were we unappealing to prospective players with talent/years on their side, but we were also infamous for being a club that hired and fired managers like no other in the UK, something that would put off any manager worth his salt currently in the game. We were the nation's laughing stock, a joke of a club in the eyes of many other supporters, long before Ashley, Wise and Co came in and made matters worse. We had also managed to assemble the most overrated and highly paid (relative to ability) squad in the league, full of yesteryear's dross and injury prone has-beens on massive contracts, contracts that noone else would offer them in a million years, essentially making these players unsellable assets that the club must use. We can't force players to leave for a lower wage elsewhere, nor can we sign replacements whilst they're still at the club. If there's anything you don't want when trying to rebuild a s*** side, players like these on contracts like these would be near abouts top of the list imo. So essentially, the job that needed to be done was a big one - to overturn the finances where we were making massive losses every year, to reverse the bad reputation that the club had developed along with the highly paid yet useless playing squad, and to put in place a suitable scouting system which would help prevent making the high percentage of mistakes we were making in the transfer market - and in the end the job was clearly far too big for Mike Ashley and his whimsical business sense to handle. Because Ashley has failed miserably doesn't negate what Shepherd did to this club post Robson. I'd also take this further and state that the sheer frustration of Shepherd's incompetence post-Robson has also influenced the fans' reaction when Keegan walked out, something which in turn has played probably the biggest part in our current mess (not absolving Ashley of blame here nor "blaming" the fans, Ashley's reaction was utterly daft and typically ill thought out). To many of us, in Keegan's return we had finally appointed a good manager after year's of sitting through dross and incompetence, someone with an eye for talent and the penchant for attractive football, only to see the board's lack of vision and foresight throw this glimmer of hope out of the window. But that's the key - the 'finally' part. We had gone through so many s*** managerial appointments, and seen such awful tactics/gameplans/man management/signings, that we had lost hope until news of Keegan's appointment suddenly came out of the blue. When last season ended and a few games of the new season had taken place, practically all of us thought that we had finally moved forward, and it looked like we could possibly challenge for a European spot given the performances and results we had seen. To put it simply, after half a decade of rotting in the bottom half of the table, things looked set to change. And of course, we were sick to the stomach when all of this looked to have been flushed down the toilet. So had we not been treated to successive diabolically bad managerial appointments prior to Keegan's appointment, things may not have kicked off like they did, because I'm sure we'd have gotten over it quite quickly, even if it was Keegan who had walked. Had Shepherd gone out and bagged Rafa instead of Souness for example, and in this alternative world Rafa had then moved on to Real Madrid several years later whilst we saw Keegan return, and only then did the alternative world re-aligned with ours and Keegan walks out in a huff after we sign a few players he didn't want, would there have been such a riot at St James'? Doubtful imo. I think the frustration of not being able to attract a good manager for years boiled over from the Shepherd era, and when the aforementioned glimmer of hope walked away, everyone turned on Ashley, which as stated is probably the biggest factor in us being in this mess today, irrespective of who was at fault (as we all know, Ashley ended up wanting out as a result of the protests/threats, hence noone wanted the job under a board that was about to leave, we were managerless and had only Kinnear willing to take the job, and the rest is painful history). The chief culprit in the current mess is Ashley for his plain ignorance in running the club without any real foresight or planning, and appointing people like Llambias who on the face of it has no place in a people-orientated business such as football, but Shepherd essentially created this environment where fans were already unhappy and impatient, where the club was already considered a joke and a laughing stock, where the finances had already been shot to pieces, all of which has contributed to the mess that Ashley has not only failed to correct but made worse.

He was our best defender last year and those of us who insisted it was a mistake to sell him have been proved utterly right. It's cost us £10m to replace him with a worse player. Everyone suddenly thought he was s*** and should be sold purely on the basis that James McFadden tore him a new one at St Andrews. IMO he was a defensively good player who wasn't a natural centreback. Sort of player who could win a tackle, was big and strong, so on and so forth, but in terms of reading the game as a centreback he was often poor for me. The McFadden goal was a prime example, caught ball watching and unware of where his man was, and allowed McFadden to steal in front of him. Would have been a quality player in the anchor midfield role. The few games that he played there, he looked a right beast in the middle, because on top of being a strong defensive player, he had pretty decent close control and a sound first touch. Unless he spat his dummy unreasonably, I think it's typical of this club that we never gave him a chance in that position despite a few promising games, because after all that was Nicky Butt's position, and as N'Zogbia would testify, we aren't a club who'll use current ability and performance levels, as opposed to character and past reputation, to pick players in the team.

they would look so stupid if they go down! Would their bank balances look stupid when they secure lucrative moves elsewhere after we get relegated? actually meant to quote the post about sunderland fans singing songs slagging us I feel no shame. Any chance to have a go at the players.

they would look so stupid if they go down! Would their bank balances look stupid when they secure lucrative moves elsewhere after we get relegated?

If, or should I say when, we win, then it will not matter what happens in this match. If Sunderland lose at home to Chelsea, then they're down.

Why would they care so much about finishing 5th? Also this lot couldn't beat Boro remember and actually looked like losing to them for most of the game. Purely about pride imo. A few months ago they were in with a shout of CL qualification, yet after a slump in form they're about to finish 6th behind Everton, a team that were never in contention for fourth spot. Finishing fifth, above Everton who are playing Fulham away, will merely be a psychological consolation of sorts - "we missed out on fourth spot, but lets at least finish 5th".

Reckon they'll beat Hull, or get a draw at the very least. That midfield is pretty decent, and the strikeforce isn't too bad either based on a few glimpses (and some very good goals). Even if they lose, it's difficult to see us getting a draw, or even three points, against a Villa team that will want to finish 5th.

Ashley, Mort, Llambias, Keegan & the players share the blame. What proportion they share, we'll probably never know. Out of curiousity, what has Mort done wrong in all of this? Personally thought he was a pretty good chairman during his year with us. Came across as a smart, likeable man, the sort of person you want to run your club.

He's the definition of a beastly centreback.

Stupid, stupid twat Bassong. Why tussle like that when you're last man? FFS he was going away from goal.

Taylor thick as chips.

Bah all over. ManU win title, will field kids against Hull.

Free kick from 18 yards for Arsenal!

3 mins remaining. Come on.

Fabregas hits the outside of the post. Good chance that was.

Just can't see Arsenal scoring here.

Owen needs to start. If he's gone in the summer, this is probably his last chance to get a goal, something which will no doubt see him, his fans and the pundits in the media proclaim him to still be a top class forward. Martins' groin could see him out for the rest of the season if we're unlucky, so keeping him on the bench and using him only when necessary is important. Lovenkrands would make a better impact sub as his pace could hurt a team later on in the game when they're bound to get a few tired legs after 70+ minutes, particularly at this point in the season after 40+ games for some of the Fulham players.

Falklands.

Yes. He's yesteryear's man. If we can put together a team that can create chances galore, then lets go out and get a pacey striker who makes decent runs, has a decent first touch and shows decent composure in front of goal (i.e. not Oba), and then create chances for him, and not a slow 30 year old with creaking bones. We'll score more goals because the striker will provide the team with much more to work with - balls over the top into space, balls into feet whilst the striker has nothing but 40 yards of grass between him and the keeper, these options would be real chances to create/score goals with a pacey striker, when at present they're not even an option for our midfielders with Owen up front because as soon as he's taken his first touch the bigger, stronger centrebacks will have caught up with him. So even if we do become a more creative side, I'd want us to utilise that creativity better by having a pacey striker on the end of those through balls. A good, creative team isn't necessarily one that can fashion regular chances for strikers who are difficult to service. Look at Barcelona - arguably the most creative side in club football over the past half decade or so. They've dominated teams week in week out, had players like Ronaldinho/Xavi/Messi/Deco/Iniesta running riot and creating chances at will, so on and so forth, yet throughout this entire time they've done all this with a striker who's main attributes are raw pace and athleticism, which (unlike Oba) the striker uses to his advantage. As another example, Shevchenko used to be a great striker, and still had good ability, yet he flopped at Chelsea because he had slowed down by the time he came to this league. Similarly, Crespo was another striker who flopped, a striker with great movement, great instincts, and wonderful composure/finishing. Yet in virtually the same team, Nicholas Anelka can't stop scoring. The difference? One has pace, the others lacked it. So if this is a chance to move on from a striker who peaked a few years short of a decade ago, a striker who limits what the "creativity" options for his teammates are, then we really need to move on and take it.

Some player Diego like. Aye. Think he could have done better for himself tbh. Juve will be good again soon. These teams always come back (Barca, Real, Milan, Juve etc.). Not many clubs can spend £23m nowadays. Just a matter of time. Real, Milan and Juve are going through a phase of rebuilding right now, as are Bayern, so it'll be interesting to see how the CL shapes up in a year or two's time.