tmonkey

2-0 win, Roeder/Owen wankathon to follow.

Class player, but hes had a few shockingly bad performances in big crunch games at club level.

Gerrard - good player overall, class in the Premiership, but nowhere near the best in the world. An average player at international level, his poor performances, average technical ability, and dissappearing acts are excused by Lampard being in the team, supposedly playing a more defensive role, etc etc - give him the "right role" and put him up against the likes of Portugal, France, Argentina, Brazil, etc, and hell still struggle against that calibre of opposition. Can be influential, but only against teams that seem to forget about the threat he can pose when outside the box. Put a decent defensive player on him and hes out of the game, eg Parker at St James'. Again, class player when on form, one of the top players in this country, but in terms of the bigger picture, I find it a joke that some think hes the best in the world.

As long as we win, the reality is that most of our supporters dont care. Prime example, Arsenal 1-0 at St James' last year. We essentially kicked them off the pitch, then laughed at them when their fans/manager complained afterwards about the fouls. No different to any of the thuggish sides many of us have come to hate down the years - yet our fans couldnt care less. A win is a win.

Frank Lampard is a much better player.

yeah, well done Glenn, you clueless c***. You're a year too late, and not capable of the job, but well done. Its like a teacher saying well done to a retarded kid who has just managed to understand that 1+1 = 2 a year after his classmates started learning pythagoras and calculus.

Glides around the pitch with his lanky legs, sublime first touches, and silky skills. The complete opposite of Peter Ramage.

If Barton goes for cheap, hell end up here imo, probably with Emre being shipped out or if Sidwell chooses someone else. We'll wait till things die down a bit and Barton shows some remorse, making sure he knows hes lucky to be here and letting the fans know that that part of his life is behind him and that weve signed a good player. Like the Bowyer and Woodgate signings, the club will believe that it can change the players' fortunes despite them being in hot water at the time, and will hope that the controversy will blow over after a while. And rightfully so, without that self belief we may as well not bother trying to win anything - unlike the likes of ManU, weve got little choice but to take gambles on talented players who better clubs wont want to touch because of attitude or indiscipline. The likes of Sidwell and Parker are good players, but theyre not as talented as Barton, and if we feel we can add that talent to our team whilst helping a player to control his "dark" side, then thats what we should do. Essentially though, we need a good manager to keep a player like Barton in line. Hes a thug, hes a prick, hes arrogant, etc, but if theres a chance of him regretting what hes done, maybe not now but later on down the line, then its worth taking a chance on him, despicable as he may be. Assuming this is all true.

Really hope Milan go through to the final, go 3-0 up against Liverpool at half time, then come out in the second half and score another 5.

Significantly better player than Sidwell, likewise would have him here if we had a manager who could control him/keep him in line.

Been saying this for years now. We simply have noone to pull the strings in the middle of the pitch and provide genuine creativity - Dyer doesnt know the meaning of it, whilst Emre is inconsistent, regularly injured, and plays too deep anyway. Beardley has never been replaced. Weve had absolutely noone consistently creative in the middle since him - Rob Lee, Speed, Bellamy, Dyer, Jenas, Parker, Emre - most of them good players in their own right, but none of them with the required attacking presence of those playing for the top sides. Even if we sort out the defence, which we do need to do, we're still going to need to add some spark in the team further up the pitch at some point to progress.

Badly needed soemone like Tevez out there today to carry the game for us.

Same team. If were going to be defensive, may as well go with Parker Butt for central midfield. Owen to start. Given Solano Taylor Bramble Carr Dyer Parker Butt Mliner Owen Martins

He apparently has knee ligaments from a donor.

Double standards.

It would be a gamble, noone is denying it - the point has been whether or not a gamble on a player of Tevez's calibre is worthwhile. Hes not a crock, nor has he already had his best years behind him. Hes on the up, hes improving with every game, and he looks to be turning his potential into reality - this past month or so hes been an immense player for West Ham. There isnt only one way to go about building a top 6 side. We should build from the back, yes, but at this point in time, who do you think we can attract? John Terry, Alessandro Nesta? If we spend money on defenders, we'll end up spending 15mill on above average ones, maybe with some talent or experience or with potential, the likes of Baines and Upson as pure examples. Thats fine by me and would be good additions who would improve the first team. Ultimately, we'll probably end up being a top 6 or 7 side, considerably more solid than this season gone by, but still lacking the top class players to realistically nail a spot in the top 4. Thats when we get to the situation of needing to improve the team by adding world class players - something that is hard to do when none of them are available or willing to come here, and we arent in the CL to attract them in the first place. Its the situation that Spurs are in right now - they have the squad, but theyre struggling to take the next step up because they cant get that special creative player they need. If you look at all the top teams, they tend to have at least one star player who is considered by everyone to be world class (Ronaldo, Rooney, Rio at ManU, Drogba, Lampard, Terry at Chelsea, Henry at Arsenal, Gerrard at Pool, etc) - the likes of us and Spurs dont have any of those players imo. As a result, we have to go down the alternative route to take that step up, having to buy slightly better "good" or above average players or having to take gambles on the likes of Hugo Viana, ie having to resort to "the next best thing" in terms of settling for potential because the other option isnt available. On the other hand, we could sign a big player like Tevez whilst we have the chance, and just for now, plug the gaps with adequate players. The following season, we would be in a position to spend money on better defenders, replace the stop gaps, etc. My opinion is that wed be better off going down this route if we can because we then have that one truly class player to build around. By the same token, if we had landed Rooney when we had the chance and ManU hadnt adjusted their finances and effectively changed their minds, wed be sitting here today with one of the best forwards in the country playing for us. It would have been worth ignoring the defence that summer because in the long term we would have benefitted by landing a player who later on we would have no chance of getting. Its not bonkers at all. In reality, 6 players or more may be on their way out, but firstly we wont be in Europe meaning less games, and secondly most of those will no doubt not be missed because they will have hardly played. If Luque was released tomorrow, it wouldnt make one bit of difference to the first team squad because he wasnt in it in truth in the first place. On paper, its one player out, in reality, the squad has already learnt to cope without him. Same applies for Bernard, Moore, Babayaro. I think we could replace Onyewu, Moore, Bernard, Babayaro and Bramble with two defenders if we were being really stingy - a centreback and a left back, because if you look at who actually has contributed anything to the team this season, you get Onyewu, Moore, Bernard, Babayaro and Bramble. Obviously, wed need to keep the likes of Ramage, Huntington and Edgar as backup, but im not so sure theres much of a drop in quality or contribution from them compared to the likes of Moore. Obviously its all dream talk and it will never materialise. Even now ive seen a few rumours on various boards that Benitez wants Tevez to replace Bellamy, which even though is nothing but a pie in the sky rumour, would make complete sense as Mascherano is already at Liverpool (ie willing to deal with his agents) and Tevez is exactly the type of player they need.

Thuram still looked a good defender against Liverpool imo, despite not being as quick as he used to be. And that was with Bellamy playing, someone who always works defenders. Still looked miles better than what we have. Laurent Blanc took a while to adapt at ManU when he came here in his mid 30s (35 or 36 iirc), first looked shiite but then ended up being a class act and an important wise head at the back. Thuram is more athletically built than Blanc, and therefore you would think should have less problems as hes always been suited to a more physical and action packed type of game. Should be a great short term addition, and as Apisith says, his experience would be a big asset when we have several inexperienced or young centrebacks in the squad.

Get Tevez whilst we can. Its the same with the Rooney bid - its worth sacrificing the needs of the squad for one season if we can land a special player, one who isnt a crock or already had his best days long ago, a gifted player on the up. We can sign average defenders next season - but the player has to be worth that gamble, otherwise were better off getting some good defenders in. Tevez is worth it imo. If we miss out now, and sign decent defenders and have a decent season, then thats great, but when it comes to the following summer, well be in the same boat of wanting to sign a top class player with creativity and a big presence on the pitch. We'll probably find that we cant sign anyone of that calibre as theyre not available or willing to come here, so were looking at signing promising youngsters or average players with some ability who wont really improve the first team whilst casting envious glances at the likes of Rooney and Tevez. If we dont miss out now, we can always get decent defenders in later on, and ultimately we end up in a better situation as in the long run, we have both of what we want (creative top class forward + decent defence) as opposed to just the one (decent defence). So yes, Tevez all the way. However, theres no reason to get Tevez and noone else. Tevez, Distin, Sidwell, and a decent left back would do me fine for the summer incomings, with Tevez being the only large transfer fee involved. Aim for a decent league finish, then look to sign a better calibre left back the following summer. I also wouldnt mind us cashing in on either Martins or Owen to get Tevez if we had to, purely because hes alot better at getting involved in the play, holding the ball up, creating space and chances, than both of them. Ie, hes a player you can actually build the team around as opposed to someone who spends most of the game being anonymous (Owen) or is downright inconsistent in his general play (Martins).

Jussi is a year older than Given. Tad pointless unless were talking about a pretty significant profit (ie 4/5mill plus).

Problem is, none of us know what the difference is between a good scout and a bad one. Im sure its alot harder than it looks on paper - if you watch your average South American football match, eg Boca vs River Plate, its pretty hard to tell who is good enough or suited to play in the Premiership. What alot of us are fearing is that Clark is in the job because of what he is, rather than his skills as a professional. Of course, none of us know what his abilities as a coach or scout actually are, maybe hes good - the same applied to Dean Saunders for example, even though most of us assumed him to be a shiite coach and just a mate of Graeme. But this is a club that appointed a housewife as its dietician and thought Souness would be the man to bring us trophies, with a boardroom that consists of the brother and sister of both directors. Theyve earnt our distrust in their abilities to appoint the right people for the job.

Dyer and Emre are technical players with good ability on the ball in some form or the other. They both have their faults, but I could see them playing for a better team that would use their abilities more efficiently than we do. Could see Emre playing a squad role for someone like ManU or Arsenal, whilst Dyer ultimately being a coutner attacking player being useful to someone like Liverpool. Also think Nobby would definately get into Chelsea or ManU's team as a backup right back, probably first team for Chelsea considering their poor options in that position. Parker has had a poor season after his role change and looks like being nothing more than a decent battling midfielder with some moderate shooting ability and limitations when it comes to moving the ball on, or spreading the play, efficiently/quickly, which is important for a central midfielder. Not sure hes got the ability or attributes to play for a better side, it might be different if he gained more confidence in his distribution and went back to his anchor midfield role.

Right now, Given, Nobby, Emre, Owen, Dyer, Martins - all could get into a top 4 squad, with Given and Owen being first teamers. Potentially Zog, Milner, Taylor, although improvements are needed in several aspects of their play. Duff at a stretch if he cuts down on his cautious approach and remembers how to attack/gamble more often.

Sun style: Spanish asylum seeking rapist criminal Albert Luque punches innocent daddy of 3 year old Holly and England international Micheal Owen, IN THE NUTS, after having his footballing ability questioned. To add to the insult, the Spaniard used a GREEN BIB which a close friend of his has informed us was aimed as an insult AT THE QUEEN.

BBC Text Commentary: 1415: GOAL Everton 2-2 Man Utd You will not believe this but it's true, I promise. Iain Turner blocks Cristiano Ronaldo's header but in trying to clear the ball from the line, Phil Neville lashes it into his own net for an own goal against his former club. What will Jose Mourinho have to say about that?

The stats seem to think the defence has been fine, its scoring goals that are the problem. But as ever, look for a reason and you'll find it Nice dodge on the question by the way :-[ At last!!! Someone else who can see what's been obvious all bloody season long. it's a fair point, there have been a number games this season where we've played ok/well/good but not put the ball in the net, conceded then collapsed like a pack of cards wigan away in particular springs to mind if michael owen had played 15-20 games with martins the season would have had a totally different look about it, believe me Aye. That's what I said and I've been saying for ages now that what we really need is another quality striker. We need both. Defenders to defend well, as well as a striker to put the ball in the back of the net. Difference is that weve already cashed our chips in on the frontline - 10mill on Martins, 17mill on Owen, with the likes of Ameobi, Luque, Dyer, Carroll, Duff, as backup. What has been the outlay on the defence? Practically nowt. Result? Shiite defenders simply not good enough for us regularly getting into the team. Theyve been as costly to us as the failure to partner Martins with someone half decent this season.