Mick

Don't even joke about it.

I've read a couple of the other replies so I'll try not to repeat points that have been covered. Allardyce has built one Premiership team, others have done that in the past and they haven't been able to take that with them when they've moved clubs, Allardyce might be the same. One of the baffling changed that I've seen is that he's replaced Lee Clark with a goal keeping coach, at least it looks that way to me and I can't work that one out, can you? I’m still happy to give him time but I really think he’s got to change quick for his own good or he’ll be right in the shit, I don’t want that to happen and I don’t want him to fail.

I only discount what he's done in the past because what he does here is the only thing which is now relevant, I'm not saying that we've got to win every game and start filling up the trophy cabinet. You mentioned an analogy and have mentioned signs of improvement, I think we should expect the same from Allardyce and so far we're not seeing it.

Good post, I must admit that I was being evasive because I thought this was going to become a board/bored thread which I'm sick of and also no longer relevant. I hope we can all get over that phase and move on, it has been going on for something like 2 years. The problem with sackings during the season is the lack of people who are available, let's hope he turns out to be capable of turning things around, it's easier for all of us. I can understand people who wanted him, I can see why they would. He's won nothing but he's managed a small club from nothing to qualifying for Europe so I doubt I'd try to throw it in your face if he fails because I understand what he had going for him. Don't take this the wrong way, I thought that he was the right man for the job when we appointed him because I couldn't think of anybody else who we could have brought in that would have been better for the club at that time. Agree or not but it would have taken a special type of person to come here with the debt that we knew we had and try to bring success. Because of that we got the best man for the job, if it doesn’t turn out that way then I don’t think it’s a case of anybody being wrong, he could still turn the club around. I’ve never really complained about the timing of a sacking other than Sir Bobby and that was because I still thought that he could have done a job for us and I’m quite sure we wouldn’t be in this state if he’d helped bring in his successor and this has nothing to do with past personalities, what’s gone is history, I’d prefer to look at the present and future. If we could sack a failing manager and replace him with a Wenger then that should be done, no matter when it was, patience wouldn’t enter into it for me. For the record, I don’t think we need to sack Allardyce yet but our form is worrying.

I know a lot of people who have no interest in Newcastle who think he's been found out and can't hack it away from Bolton. They expected him to do well but now think he can't. I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens.

You've obviously forgot about Boumsong and Faye.

No, he's here and what he does from the day he took over until the day he goes is all that matters now. it means what I said. You are not taking into account his past record. You are saying his past record is irrelevant, because he's had 13 games here. I can see how you come to that conclusion So. As HTT pointed out too, his 8 years at Bolton isn't grounds for saying that he isn't worth more than 13 games here ? Just for clarification Just for clarification, all that matters now that he's here is what he does while he's here. Also, I've only said that we should get rid of him if we can get somebody in who is better and I'd probably give him until the end of the season to see what he can do here.

I don't see any reason to worry about Edgar, I've liked him when he's played. I don't see why kids shouldn't get games from time to time.

No, he's here and what he does from the day he took over until the day he goes is all that matters now. it means what I said. You are not taking into account his past record. You are saying his past record is irrelevant, because he's had 13 games here. I can see how you come to that conclusion

No, he's here and what he does from the day he took over until the day he goes is all that matters now.

I think he probably had our best two chances, at least I think it was him both times.

To be fair to Allardyce, I think he's still strong enough to deal with that if true.

Fair comment, I just thought it was worth a try.

Your 'i's' should be upper case, so should the 'a' at the beginning of the sentence, do I win?

I think he'll still be here at the end of the season unless we got somebody a lot better, they do exist. I think it's probably 9 to 1 that he'll stay because I doubt we'd get better, even if it is possible. I'm sure we'll not get a knee-jerk reaction although again, it's possible.

I don't think he needs to finish 6th to keep the fans but people must see something to suggest that good times are ahead, we are talking about the same people who applauded Souness after finishing 14th. The points and league position are better than they were this time last season, the problem is that we could probably have had more if we'd gone into games with a different attitude, nobody will ever convince me that we went to Derby with the right team and tactics, if we had I'm sure we'd now be on 21 points or more.

I don't think Allardyce is as bad as the two you mention but I must admit to wondering if he's one of those managers who can only do it at one club, time will tell and no amount of arguing will change that. He might be trying too hard and if that’s the case the shit he got yesterday might just do him good if he stops doing what has failed him so far. I really think he could lose the players if it goes on too much longer, he’s probably strong enough to deal with any unrest at the minute but I wouldn’t be surprised if the players stop listening to him if things don’t change before too long, I hope that doesn't happen.

Of course it's 13 games regardless of how we've done in them. He has done somethings right, I doubt anybody thinks that he hasn’t. I think he's done really well away from the games but he also needs to show something during the games. Some of his substitutions have been almost beyond beleif and I struggle to understand what the point of them was. Out of those 3 drawn games we’ve drawn, two teams that are in the bottom 4 and they’ve managed to scrape less than a point a game. We’ve lost to Reading who also have less than a point a game and Derby, probably the worst team ever in this league and we’re the only team to lose to them. I think yesterday might have been our highest number of enforced changes, we had to make 3 but Allardyce decided that he wanted to make 6.

I agree with that but he needs to find the winning formula soon because if he doesn't then the players will stop listening to him through a lack of faith. He doesn't have to go out and win every game but we've got to look as if we can beat teams below us. As for a lack of patience, he'll get it if he shows he's worth sticking with, he's got to offer the supporters something more than what he's done at another club. I could name managers in this country who could be better than Allardyce but that would be pointless as we've got a manager. We don't have to shut the F*** up, some may chose to do so others may chose not to. If I was Allardyce I'd try to prove the doubters wrong, I hope he tries and does it. I also hope that if something doesn't work he learns from it instead of keep on trying in the vain hope that it eventually works. He's got certain players to work with and should play to whatever strengths they posess instead of trying to get them to do things that are just not working. The supporters are showing frustration and I'm not surprised.

We're not talking about Bolton, we've had managers in the past who had done things at previous clubs, all that matters is what he does here.

He looks out of his depth at the minute but I'd give him until May to prove himself unless somebody better came along and we were in trouble.

I would have thought 13 games was enough for a manager to get some basics right.

The manager has got to be given the players he wants to bring to the club, hopefully he'll want quality players. It doesn't matter which type of player he brings in though if he can't get the best out of them, which is what we're seeing at the minute. I'd like to see us go for some creativity in January but I'm not sure we'll see the best of them unless Allardyce can make his mind up about what he’s trying to do. I really think he’s got about 3 games to get the players motivated again, after that he’ll have a massive job to sort them out, the players have to believe in what the manager is trying to do, even if it’s only them thinking he knows what he’s trying to do. I’m not even sure we’ll be able to attract quality in our current position.

It's actually 14 games in, we also lost to Arsenal reserves. 14 games is long enough to see that we have problems, problems which are to a large extent self inflicted and repeated on a regular basis. I've seen enough games lost to get over a defeat or two, I hate it when I'm 90% sure that we'll lose before a game because of something which could be put right very easily. This repetition is getting very boring but I have a feeling it will be repeated again during the next couple of games. I hope I'm having this post bumped next week to prove me wrong but I doubt it.

I'd love to see some better quality players come in but I'd also love to see the manager get the best out of what he's got. It's pointless throwing good money after bad if we can't even use what we've already got.