Mick

Dalglish was the opposite to what we had so tried to change everything that the team had been built around, I wanted Bobby Robson because I felt that he would tinker with the team and win something. Dalglish was also partly to blame for the collapse of Liverpool from regular league champions to also rans, Souness finished what Dalglish started.

So you put the near oubling of wages in 4 years down to the quality of players on the pitch ? The team today is twice as good as the team from 2002 ? OMG. Is this a pisstake or do you REALLY not understand football and what has happened in the last few years? I'm just guessing but he's probably noticed our decline, unlike some people who appear not to have noticed the larger part of our last 10 years. How many other club have posted record losses this season? Everything that our club could be measured on is heading in a negative direction.

thats a fair comment, so I'll give you a straight answer. If you want to know about the club before your time and learn from its history, why no try listening and taking it in ? FWIW, I don't mind and wouldn't mind at all - observations you make, but constant bluesleep.gif signs aren't contributing to anything other than giving the impression that you think what we say about the clubs history to be either incorrect or irrelevant, or both. You should also note that these sort of discussions aren't normally started by either myself of HTL, most of my posts are a response. My comments towards Mick are based on the impression that I have, which is that he is a KK bandwagon jumper. That is not the same as younger lads like yourself and others who can't support the club for geographical, financial or other reasons. I didn't used to think he was but I do now due to his opinion that the has club not made massive progress under this board, which is complete rubbish, nobody who supported the club earlier says this. This is absolutely correct, and has been backed up with solid fact, whether it has gone pear shaped over the last few years is a different point, the attitude and setup of the club whatever its faults is light years superior to what it was, and we can advocate replacing the board if we like but there is no guarantee a new board will be better, have ambition, have the interests of the club at heart, and won't be after a quick killing and sell it on again quickly, any scenario is possible. The club has not made progress under this chairman and that will not change, no matter how much you try to spin it out to look as if it has, 2nd to 17th is not progress, cash rich to debt is not progress. You're pathetic, you're trying to give Shepherd credit for what Sir John did while chairman, the record under Shepherd is of failure except for 3 seasons while Robson was manager, the rest is shite. Well said mate. What happened in the past under Westwood, McKeag et al is completely irrelevant to how Shepherd has managed the club in all honesty. Like you say, he took over a financially healthy and vibrant football club from Sir John Hall and has slowly reduced us to an average club with apathetic support, that is up to it's eyes in debt...........whilst rewarding himself huge sums of money in the process. I really can't see how people can honestly continue to support Shepherd. nobody is "supporting" Shepherd, but I can't honestly see how "anyone but Fred" can be good for the club. There are people out there who are far worse and would be. Do you think Shepherd/the current board would have sold Beardsley, Gazza and Waddle ? Like I said, what the previous boards did is totally irrelevant to how Shepherd has managed the club. You're right, it could be a whole lot worse with another Chairman........but it could and should be a whole lot better. I can think of at least 10 Chairmen in the Premier League who have done a much better job at their respective clubs than Shepherd has. Why should we settle for second rate management just because we had it in the past? The club is dying on it's feet and only heading in one direction, so personally, I'd rather take a gamble on a new owner than continue with the ****ing shambolic state that the club is in at present. Slightly edited the last post...I agree that it could be better or worse, of course it could be better. The club has gone wrong since appointing Souness, before that we were moving along and doing quite well but were in a position where we could have moved upwards further if a better choice of manager had been made. Replacing the board with someone of doubtful intention is a huge gamble it will happen someday but as I've said before they can't get away with many more bad choices of manager so time will tell. Stop trying to change history, we dropped from being 2nd in the league to finish 11th and 13th twice in the first 4 years of Shepherd as chairman, it hasn't just gone wrong since he appointed Souness, he only got it right once.

"Nobody is supporting Shepherd," does anybody have a smiley that falls down and pisses itself laughing? Odd, but the fact that you avoid the fundamental question - again - makes me smile. Odd that I've answered that question more than once but your memory fails you once again as you try to avoid questions by waffling on about irrelevant rubbish.

I've no problem with you and never have had. My son is younger than 19 and is a Newcastle supporter, I know not every supporter is older than 19. I do not disrespect anyone based on their age, however old or young they may be. In the case of Dave, he automatically posts shite in response to anyone obviously older than himself posting something he disagrees with. A strange attitude, but I know not all young people are immature like Dave is. My problem with people such as Mick is that he claimed to be a lifelong supporter but later let the cat out of the bag that in fact he wasn't. Simple as that. He did that himself. To people who were going to matches when there was only 15,000-20,000 it was a galling period when suddenly we get to a FA Cup Final and 50,000 suddenly become supporters, and are trying to grab tickets and indeed did grab tickets from people who had been going for years. The club recognised it, hence why they brought in the voucher scheme in order to try to ensure the hangers on were at the back of the queue. They do it a different way now, but the principle is the same. When did we get to a FA Cup final with crowds of 15,000-20,000? More spin by somebody who claims to know everything.

thats a fair comment, so I'll give you a straight answer. If you want to know about the club before your time and learn from its history, why no try listening and taking it in ? FWIW, I don't mind and wouldn't mind at all - observations you make, but constant bluesleep.gif signs aren't contributing to anything other than giving the impression that you think what we say about the clubs history to be either incorrect or irrelevant They're not constant at all. And whether it's right or wrong I do listen and take it in. if you think so, alright, all I can say is that I am pointing out a possibility of it going wrong, which is very real. Replacing the board with one that guarantees trophies is a bit of a tall order, and that is the next step up rom regular qualification for europe and buying top England players. Can you see this ? Our own board pre-1992 and many other big clubs just like us are sitting, just existing, staying solvent, not showing this ambition and will never go anywhere as a result. If that is the type of club you want, then THAT is crap, believe me, so think about the type of board we could have waiting out there and balance out the odds on getting one who has a desire - and a guarantee - to go higher or one like all the others. This club could easily exist on 30,000 crowds, sitting in the bottom half of the table, paying a dividend, making a small operating profit and selling a player when things go slightly wrong, and that is what you might get. How many past chairman dropped us 16 league places? How many past chairman presided over a 12 million loss? How many past chairman squandered something like £50 million on a manager who was clearly, for all to see, a shit manager? How many past chairman called the fans mugs and dogs? How many of the past chairman bragged that we were one of the top 8 jobs in football only to appoint a manager who has finished in the bottom 3 with all of his revious 3 clubs? How many of the past chairman have had more than £80 million income to squander? How many chairman/boards put the club on the brink of the 3rd division after 30 years of mismanagement and selling our best players ? How many chairman/boards got us into a position where there was 16 places [to temporarily] drop to ? [this is the same rubbish as those who ridicule keegans "12 point lead" ] How many chairman/boards tapped the fanbase and made big money to buy top players rather than sell their best players to raise it instead ? How many chairman/board took the piss out of you by selling our best players, running the ground down, and were happy with us building stands "to match the one at Watford" How many chairman/board couldn't attract decent managers like Bobby Robson, Howard Kendall and had to make their 8th desperate choice in the end ? Again - spoken like a true KK bandwagon jumper. They aren't answers, they're your typical way of avoiding answering anything, again, pathetic. I'm not bigging up past chairman, chairman which were on a par with the one we've got now, the one you'll defend until the very end, whatever that will be. When your hedge fund takes over the club and sells our best players, when instant trophies and success doesn't come, we will see what you say. My hedge fund? I don't have a hedge fund, what are you on about?

"Nobody is supporting Shepherd," does anybody have a smiley that falls down and pisses itself laughing?

I wonder if your comfort blanket is going to have a go at you for only picking what you chose to respond to? He's bound to as he doesn't apply double standards, does he? The club has not made progress under Shepherd, -16 league places and £millions down the drain. Kindly explain how regularly qualifying for europe and buying top England players isn't massively better than selling locally born England players, spending years in the 2nd division and sitting on the brink of the 3rd division ? A reply today, before I head off to the match, would be nice, unless you have all day to think about it. We've qualified for Europe 3 times by league position, the rest through the back door under Shepherd, that from a base of 3rd, 6th, 2nd & 2nd. The best under Shepherd and a one off is 3rd which is the second worst Premiership finish under Sir John Hall.

thats a fair comment, so I'll give you a straight answer. If you want to know about the club before your time and learn from its history, why no try listening and taking it in ? FWIW, I don't mind and wouldn't mind at all - observations you make, but constant bluesleep.gif signs aren't contributing to anything other than giving the impression that you think what we say about the clubs history to be either incorrect or irrelevant They're not constant at all. And whether it's right or wrong I do listen and take it in. if you think so, alright, all I can say is that I am pointing out a possibility of it going wrong, which is very real. Replacing the board with one that guarantees trophies is a bit of a tall order, and that is the next step up rom regular qualification for europe and buying top England players. Can you see this ? Our own board pre-1992 and many other big clubs just like us are sitting, just existing, staying solvent, not showing this ambition and will never go anywhere as a result. If that is the type of club you want, then THAT is crap, believe me, so think about the type of board we could have waiting out there and balance out the odds on getting one who has a desire - and a guarantee - to go higher or one like all the others. This club could easily exist on 30,000 crowds, sitting in the bottom half of the table, paying a dividend, making a small operating profit and selling a player when things go slightly wrong, and that is what you might get. How many past chairman dropped us 16 league places? How many past chairman presided over a 12 million loss? How many past chairman squandered something like £50 million on a manager who was clearly, for all to see, a shit manager? How many past chairman called the fans mugs and dogs? How many of the past chairman bragged that we were one of the top 8 jobs in football only to appoint a manager who has finished in the bottom 3 with all of his revious 3 clubs? How many of the past chairman have had more than £80 million income to squander? How many chairman/boards put the club on the brink of the 3rd division after 30 years of mismanagement and selling our best players ? How many chairman/boards got us into a position where there was 16 places [to temporarily] drop to ? [this is the same rubbish as those who ridicule keegans "12 point lead" ] How many chairman/boards tapped the fanbase and made big money to buy top players rather than sell their best players to raise it instead ? How many chairman/board took the piss out of you by selling our best players, running the ground down, and were happy with us building stands "to match the one at Watford" How many chairman/board couldn't attract decent managers like Bobby Robson, Howard Kendall and had to make their 8th desperate choice in the end ? Again - spoken like a true KK bandwagon jumper. They aren't answers, they're your typical way of avoiding answering anything, again, pathetic. I'm not bigging up past chairman, chairman which were on a par with the one we've got now, the one you'll defend until the very end, whatever that will be.

I wonder if your comfort blanket is going to have a go at you for only picking what you chose to respond to? He's bound to as he doesn't apply double standards, does he? The club has not made progress under Shepherd, -16 league places and £millions down the drain.

The article last Sunday in the Sunday Sun by Neil Farrington is worth reading again for those who either missed it or think it won't happen because it certainly and easily could. The Farringdon article is nothing but spin, Belgravia are not a hedge fund, they haven't been for years and they said that they would be using money that they have built up to fund buying the club, Farringdon is either ignorant, or a puppet to the club, just like the other local journalists.

thats a fair comment, so I'll give you a straight answer. If you want to know about the club before your time and learn from its history, why no try listening and taking it in ? FWIW, I don't mind and wouldn't mind at all - observations you make, but constant bluesleep.gif signs aren't contributing to anything other than giving the impression that you think what we say about the clubs history to be either incorrect or irrelevant They're not constant at all. And whether it's right or wrong I do listen and take it in. if you think so, alright, all I can say is that I am pointing out a possibility of it going wrong, which is very real. Replacing the board with one that guarantees trophies is a bit of a tall order, and that is the next step up rom regular qualification for europe and buying top England players. Can you see this ? Our own board pre-1992 and many other big clubs just like us are sitting, just existing, staying solvent, not showing this ambition and will never go anywhere as a result. If that is the type of club you want, then THAT is crap, believe me, so think about the type of board we could have waiting out there and balance out the odds on getting one who has a desire - and a guarantee - to go higher or one like all the others. This club could easily exist on 30,000 crowds, sitting in the bottom half of the table, paying a dividend, making a small operating profit and selling a player when things go slightly wrong, and that is what you might get. How many past chairman dropped us 16 league places? How many past chairman presided over a 12 million loss? How many past chairman squandered something like £50 million on a manager who was clearly, for all to see, a shit manager? How many past chairman called the fans mugs and dogs? How many of the past chairman bragged that we were one of the top 8 jobs in football only to appoint a manager who has finished in the bottom 3 with all of his revious 3 clubs? How many of the past chairman have had more than £80 million income to squander?

thats a fair comment, so I'll give you a straight answer. If you want to know about the club before your time and learn from its history, why no try listening and taking it in ? FWIW, I don't mind and wouldn't mind at all - observations you make, but constant bluesleep.gif signs aren't contributing to anything other than giving the impression that you think what we say about the clubs history to be either incorrect or irrelevant, or both. You should also note that these sort of discussions aren't normally started by either myself of HTL, most of my posts are a response. My comments towards Mick are based on the impression that I have, which is that he is a KK bandwagon jumper. That is not the same as younger lads like yourself and others who can't support the club for geographical, financial or other reasons. I didn't used to think he was but I do now due to his opinion that the has club not made massive progress under this board, which is complete rubbish, nobody who supported the club earlier says this. This is absolutely correct, and has been backed up with solid fact, whether it has gone pear shaped over the last few years is a different point, the attitude and setup of the club whatever its faults is light years superior to what it was, and we can advocate replacing the board if we like but there is no guarantee a new board will be better, have ambition, have the interests of the club at heart, and won't be after a quick killing and sell it on again quickly, any scenario is possible. The club has not made progress under this chairman and that will not change, no matter how much you try to spin it out to look as if it has, 2nd to 17th is not progress, cash rich to debt is not progress. You're pathetic, you're trying to give Shepherd credit for what Sir John did while chairman, the record under Shepherd is of failure except for 3 seasons while Robson was manager, the rest is shite. Is Ellis a shit chairman?

48. Couldn't care less if you cringe at my posts or not, tbh. The point is, you'll cringe at your own in years to come. It's obvious you aren't able to accept others have a different opinion, you aren't able to properly debate the points, instead taking the easy way out by generally highlighting small portions of a post in order to make a personal point, rather than addressing the debate. I post an opinion and I generally try to back it up with why I have that opinion. I know I could be wrong, you on other hand believe you can't be wrong while rarely supplying any reasons for an opinion you hold. When you do state a reason for an opinion which is then questioned in debate, you turn the post into a personal one rather than continue the debate. You aren't the only one and you aren't the worst. I used to think your opinions were worthwhile reading but you appear to have such a chip on your shoulder these days I really can't be arsed with what you post. You're a joke to me, Dave. Never used to be. Poor Dave, I don't think he'll be able to get over this, it's terrible news, I know it is as I've been through it myself but luckily you still reply from time to time which makes life that little bit easier to take. Chin up Dave, all is not lost. Aye, mainly to highlight the tripe you spout, which you can't really do anything about not having any real knowledge of the football club. You could always ask someone who was there before 1992. I suppose it's difficult for you Mick, the expectations from your posts are higher since you claimed to have been a supporter for decades until being caught out in the lie. No doubt you could tell me all about the time Keegan joined, and about the two cup finals in the 70's though, so don't worry, all isn't lost because you do have experience of some of those decades. snigger.gif A 48 year old baby, that just about sums you up. What are you doing up at this time? Have you got wind?

OMG, the KK bandwagon jumper has arrived......... Never did go apart from the Cup Finals, eh Mick? Taking the ticket from a real supporter..... Stand tall, push that little chest out, son. It's terrible isn't it.

48. Couldn't care less if you cringe at my posts or not, tbh. The point is, you'll cringe at your own in years to come. It's obvious you aren't able to accept others have a different opinion, you aren't able to properly debate the points, instead taking the easy way out by generally highlighting small portions of a post in order to make a personal point, rather than addressing the debate. I post an opinion and I generally try to back it up with why I have that opinion. I know I could be wrong, you on other hand believe you can't be wrong while rarely supplying any reasons for an opinion you hold. When you do state a reason for an opinion which is then questioned in debate, you turn the post into a personal one rather than continue the debate. You aren't the only one and you aren't the worst. I used to think your opinions were worthwhile reading but you appear to have such a chip on your shoulder these days I really can't be arsed with what you post. You're a joke to me, Dave. Never used to be. Poor Dave, I don't think he'll be able to get over this, it's terrible news, I know it is as I've been through it myself but luckily you still reply from time to time which makes life that little bit easier to take. Chin up Dave, all is not lost.

I think you need to consider extracting yourself from his back end. Going to try making some points of your own?? You know, points that have some SUBSTANCE behind them. What is it about these facts and figures concerning our steadily declining income and dangerously spiralling ratio of wages to turnover that strikes you as insubstantial, exactly? And what is it that you don't understand about this decline coming about due to the dropping off of performances on the field of play, rather than consistent mismanagment of the clubs finances by the Board? This isn't difficult stuff. Consistent mismanagement is to blame, look at our league finished since Shepherd took over, 14th, 13th twice, 11th twice, 7th, 5th, 4th and 3rd, this season? We spent most of last season in the lower reaches before finishing off the season on a high.

blueyes.gif 3rd, 4th & 5th, are you really as thick as you seem to be? It's the best three years Shepherd has had as Chairman. You must think the same as Shepherd because he also thought that we were also doing badly. Clearly you weren't watching matches from about 18 months prior to the date Robson left. Cheers for making that obvious. Really? I went enough to see a lot better than I've seen since Freddy upgraded our management. Tripe, tbh. That sums it up perfectly, we've upgraded our management with tripe.

blueyes.gif 3rd, 4th & 5th, are you really as thick as you seem to be? It's the best three years Shepherd has had as Chairman. You must think the same as Shepherd because he also thought that we were also doing badly. who else - particularly among the board you consider the same as ie between 1965 and 1992 - has finished in the top 5 once , and how many times, not to mention 3 times .... How many times did the board you think is "the same as the current one" qualify for europe between the years 1965 and 1992 ? How many times were they relegated ? How many seasons did they spend in the old 2nd division ? there is only one thick person here so far as I can see that can't look this up and give a straight answer. In fact, I have posted this info before, just search under my username and you'll find it. Long term - cough cough - supporters wouldn't dispute these facts however. In fact, there will be 2 people, because I'm sure the WUM will agree with you, and macbeth might too as he doesn't look at football. :roll: How many individually dropped us 16 league places and made a £12 million loss while getting 50,000 through the gates, gates which are now falling. Just like our finances which you used to big up Shepherd. Do you still think he's good at managing the finances?

blueyes.gif 3rd, 4th & 5th, are you really as thick as you seem to be? It's the best three years Shepherd has had as Chairman. You must think the same as Shepherd because he also thought that we were also doing badly. Clearly you weren't watching matches from about 18 months prior to the date Robson left. Cheers for making that obvious. Really? I went enough to see a lot better than I've seen since Freddy upgraded our management.

blueyes.gif 3rd, 4th & 5th, are you really as thick as you seem to be? It's the best three years Shepherd has had as Chairman. You must think the same as Shepherd because he also thought that we were also doing badly.

I think taking us from 2nd in the Premiership to 17th while putting the club into massive debt is no better than what our old directors were good at. long term supporters - cough cough - will confirm that pre-1992 the club - and fans like you - were happy to finish 17th in the league.. You should be telling your new ally Ozzie that he indeed was wrong when he defended Souness' spending spree and selling Bellamy which is entirely to blame for what he and you are moaning about. My "new ally" didn't give the clown the money or appoint him, your blue eyed boy did. but your "new ally" agreed with it being done. As misguided as you in your support of the board who sold all our best players for over 30 years and were on their way to 3rd division football.. I didn't support the board who sold our best players for over 30 years (was it Bellamy or Robert? ), unlike you who now supports the current chairman who takes us backwards.

you mean yourself, Ozzie, Mick and Macbeth don't you ? I think he means you. bluebiggrin.gif

I think taking us from 2nd in the Premiership to 17th while putting the club into massive debt is no better than what our old directors were good at. long term supporters - cough cough - will confirm that pre-1992 the club - and fans like you - were happy to finish 17th in the league.. You should be telling your new ally Ozzie that he indeed was wrong when he defended Souness' spending spree and selling Bellamy which is entirely to blame for what he and you are moaning about. My "new ally" didn't give the clown the money or appoint him, your blue eyed boy did.