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He's done ten things today that Tiote hasn't done in his time with us. There's no doubt who I'd prefer out of the two. Modern football is done with hard-man tackle-only central midfielders.

Because Pardew uses Tiote to spray the ball like he's fucking vintage Pirlo and Tiote finds himself with the ball in an attacking position often enough that when he inevitably wastes the opportunity, I'm pissed off. Colback is a modern central midfielder, he's much better than Tiote.

He's better than Tiote, so he'll start for us.

Better touch and technique than Tiote, faster and can dribble... He'll start for us.

Look at that run, taking on players in the center of the park, driving towards their goal. What a ridiculously novel concept.

That was more attacking than anything our midfield have done this year. Running from deep to support the strikers, what a novel concept.

He's better than some of the shit we've played in midfield this year so I'll take him. He's athletic, something that we're lacking in CM, and his passing is better than Tiote's.

I want them to survive. When we get a new manager, we'll thump them.

He got them back up instantly, IIRC. I never said he didn't. I know, mate. I was just saying that his record isn't bad and putting some perspective on the relegation.

What are you on about? Not spending loads of money? Haven't they spent for like £25m more than they've sold for this season? They're a newly promoted club. Anyway, they've signed some good players. Long and Huddlestone are Premiership players. They look like they'll survive for a while.

He got them back up instantly, IIRC.

If it was so difficult for Martinez to keep Wigan up year after year then why is Bruce making such an easy job of it this year without spending loads of money? He did it with Wigan too and also Birmingham. Martinez's record, prior to this year, was actually as impressive as Bruce's, maybe even less so. He's had a brilliant year so far but let's put his career into some perspective and also let's put Moyes' one bad year into perspective given the success he's enjoyed over the last decade.

The Bruce comparison is relevant because he took over Bruce's team and got it relegated. Bruce still hasn't been relegated, IIRC, and has plenty of promotions. Bruce this season has taken a newly promoted team and is doing better than Martinez did with Wigan last year. I don't know how attractive Wigan are in general but I'm sure it's more attractive than a club like Hull who were playing in a league below last year. Yet this year Hull have come up and played very solid football, won some big games, competed in others and haven't been embarrassed. If I could pick, I'd take Bruce this year over Martinez last year. When you see it that way, you'll understand why Moyes is pretty clearly the one with the longer and more successful record and why Martinez's record is mixed, IMO.

Things change quickly in football. I'll take the guy who was good for ten years and reshaped his squad three times over the guy who bought crap like Boselli and got relegated. Playing decent football or not, Martinez's side was routinely walloped, by the way. Maybe some pragmatism would have helped rather than getting regularly beaten 4 or 5 by Arsenal and Man Utd.

Yeah but a lot of it was his fault. Bruce is up with another team and is doing better than Martinez ever did with Wigan. The season Hull are having now is better than any season that Martinez had with Wigan. Martinez's record is mixed. He's had a brilliant season with Everton but let's see how he shapes the squad. If he buys shit players like he did at Wigan then in three years Everton will look like Villa, no offense to Neil.

As I said in the other thread, Moyes is the easy choice for me. His record is great while Martinez's is mixed.

Bruce kept Wigan comfortably in the Premier League. People say that Wigan team was full of shit, well, 90% of them was signed by Martinez so guess what that says about him. He's done brilliantly this season and his career record is good but let's not be so quick to proclaim him better than someone whose ten year stretch in the Premier League was one of the best of his time. I'm ignoring the philosophy and attitude, let's just talk about results.

That's one of the dumbest things you've said, and by God you've said some dumb things. He also has a relegation to his name, if we're going to make stupid arguments. Moyes is a good manager. Martinez is a good manager. Martinez has benefited massively from the foundation that Moyes built at Everton. His teams leaked goals for fun at Wigan, and he wasn't able to fix it over three God damn years, that's how good he was. Moyes created a solid foundation and Martinez has expanded on it, but credit still must be given to Moyes for building the team. Let's judge Everton three years down the line when Martinez has time to sign more players like Alcaraz and that gimp he spent £5m on who hasn't done shit. Yes his philosophy is to be admired and yes Everton have been brilliant to watch, but Moyes' track record is far better because he experienced sustained success. Martinez's success so far has been fleeting. I'd take Moyes over Martinez if I had to pick one manager today for our club, given our (self imposed) financial constraints. Martinez is the better candidate if you have the money to sign the best players but we don't and won't ever, and Moyes has proven himself at a club like us. How are Everton, where Moyes had free rein to buy exactly the players he wanted and build exactly the structure he wanted, a "club like us"? He couldn't be less of a fit for what we are tbh. I was talking more about the financial constraints, mate. I genuinely feel Moyes would be better for us than Martinez, given what we are and where we are.

That's one of the dumbest things you've said, and by God you've said some dumb things. He also has a relegation to his name, if we're going to make stupid arguments. Moyes is a good manager. Martinez is a good manager. Martinez has benefited massively from the foundation that Moyes built at Everton. His teams leaked goals for fun at Wigan, and he wasn't able to fix it over three God damn years, that's how good he was. Moyes created a solid foundation and Martinez has expanded on it, but credit still must be given to Moyes for building the team. Let's judge Everton three years down the line when Martinez has time to sign more players like Alcaraz and that gimp he spent £5m on who hasn't done shit. Yes his philosophy is to be admired and yes Everton have been brilliant to watch, but Moyes' track record is far better because he experienced sustained success. Martinez's success so far has been fleeting. I'd take Moyes over Martinez if I had to pick one manager today for our club, given our (self imposed) financial constraints. Martinez is the better candidate if you have the money to sign the best players but we don't and won't ever, and Moyes has proven himself at a club like us.

He's better than Torres, Ba, Dzeko, Hernandez, Welbeck and a few of the other strikers playing for the top teams. His failings aren't the cause of Arsenal's failings. He's a good player who you could win a title with, Chelsea are close to winning one with their strikers doing nothing.

We'll never hear the end of this which is why it would be the bestest thing ever if we ruin it in the last match of the season but that ain't going to happen, is it?

Liverpool are going to win, man. They're playing some sensational football and they'll finish on 89 points and deserve the title.

46 points again? Jesus Christ, I've never seen this mentioned so much in my life. This is like the '40 points and you're safe' for us.

This cunt has no pride.

They have had 12 penalties, scored 10.