Taylor Swift

HTT just thinks it was harder to score then, damn the facts and evidence, man. His arguments are as cloudy as yours though tbf. Arguing that CRonaldo would be among the absolute best ever. Oh god. I talk about statistics and I back what I say with facts. This Ronaldo is insanely good, there's no doubt about it. No team in the world can stop him from doing his thing, it's just that his thing isn't as effective as Messi's thing, but it's more effective than anyone else's in the past twenty years, when you take into account how long he has done it for.

Mentality man. Back then teams and players were sent out to win and to score goals. Today teams are sent out not to lose. See our own Newcastle. Players were more individualistic too. Ben Arfa in Pele's day would be a world great, allowed to express his talents freely. Not today he has to defend etc. There is too much money in the modern game to allow players and teams to wilfully express themselves freely which in a way makes the likes if Messi all the more remarkable. So it was easier to score back then, then, given that teams were more offensive.

HTT just thinks it was harder to score then, damn the facts and evidence, man.

You'd obviously take this Ronaldo if you could pick between the two to build your team around because of his longevity but if you could pick them at their peaks for a one match winner take all, you'd pick Fat Ronaldo. The latter's peak was sensational. The insane thing about Messi is that you'd pick him over anyone else if you could pick any peak version of any player for a one match winner take all and you would, in time I expect, pick him to build your team around. He just has to do it for a few more seasons, and obviously a WC would shut every moron out there up too.

Look, I see where you're coming from, but I hope you understand that these 'friendlies' weren't friendlies like they are today. You know that right? Teams played for money and honour back then, especially since there was a tense rivalry between the European and South American clubs. Those were extremely important and teams really wanted to win. It's not like the friendlies today where you put half a team on and there is no touching of the opposition to prevent injuries. Also you do realize that Real Madrid of last season is the 7th most effective goalscoring team of all times in Spanish football? Behind 4 Athletic Bilbao teams who scored a boatload in the 30's? Not that it says anything, but Barcelona and Real Madrid of last season are the two teams who have scored the most ever in Spanish football, so how does that translate into your argument that you scored more back then? In general maybe but both Cristiano Ronaldo and Messi have been part in the most scoring Spanish sides ever. Once again, I'm a big fan of Messi and the person who isn't doesn't really appreciate football or is a Madrid fan. Cruyff makes an excellent point when he says: “What everyone should be especially happy about is that every era has its own heroes. Why would one be less than the other? Pele was a hero in his time, I was in my period and Messi’s time is now. He is a joy to behold.” Also didn't know that Pele scored a hattrick against Newcastle back in '72. Er, the reason Barcelona is so prolific is because they have Messi? It's kind of a circular argument. Ronaldo is also a supreme athlete. He's probably the best athlete out of all the great footballers in history with Pele coming in a close second. He jumps higher than any defender, he's faster than everyone else on the pitch and he can strike the ball, with a certain degree of control, harder than anyone else on Earth. The guy is insanely good. Why are Real and Barca so prolific? Probably because they have two historic players playing for them. In general, it's harder to score now than in the past when Pele played. This is borne out by the average goals per game in the Brazilian leagues back then compared to today. It's just a fact, man. I don't think it makes sense to argue that these two are only scoring insane amount of goals because defenders in general are shit because these two also score in the CL and internationals so if you want to argue that, you're essentially arguing that defending is just shit right now. You can take that path but in the end, you're still admitting that these two are so far above everyone else in the game right now. You look at other players and teams and no one else is doing this. That's because they're not capable, not because they don't want to. So if we agree that these two are so far ahead of their peers, and you also take into account how many more footballers there are today and thus how harder it is to be so much better than everyone else (a simple case of sample size and standard deviation), what we're witnessing today is historic. Ronaldo would be just below Maradona and Pele if Messi wasn't playing. But because he is, Ronaldo's flaws, namely his lack of all round influence and control of matches, is highlighted with far more effect than if Messi were to not exist. That's why Ronaldo is sitting comfortably in the second tier, in time edging himself ahead of Zidane, Xavi etc, and it's why the first tier has only four players (the three plus Cruyff), and why Messi, if he keeps this up for five years, even if he never wins the WC, will be, by virtue of the insane amount of records that he'll break, be universally accepted as the greatest.

Ginola was my favourite player growing up but he's nowhere near Hatem.

I have three points to make: Pele scored against those teams in friendlies. The key is that they were friendlies. Football is a much more difficult game nowadays. Whatever you say, you look at the goal scoring of each league and it is way lower than it was in the 60s. For whatever reason, it is harder to score a goal now today than it was before. So a goal today matters more than it did before. You talk about shit pitches, about poor refereeing, rough play, whatever you want to talk about, in the end, more goals were scored on average then than now. Just basic statistics, bro. The population of footballers these days is also vastly greater than before. Pele may be a King amongst men but he was a King in a small village. Messi is the King of the world.

He's the most gifted player we've had in 20 years, maybe 40 years, maybe ever. That's how brilliant he is.

Yup. Complete morons. To be honest, there were quite a few others on here who had no fucking clue as well. Some people actually seriously advocated starting Best over him.

Ah 4 folds, my bad.

Returned £65. £15 on west spam to score the next goal, 2.75 odds. There were five goals in the Manchester derby, mate.

I see what you did there, Neil.

Good stuff, Everton.

What a header by Gerrard. Classic CF.

Atkinson is such a shit ref.

Nasri with a pathetic attempt at being the wall. Pathetic.

Cunt

City are so dominant right now.

Good stuff, bro.

Get in

Atkinson is not fit to referee to these matches.

Tevez should have clearly gone down.

Hedge now. Don't be a hero.

Mon city

Clear dive.