dcmk

Apologies to go back to this post, but only just updating myself on this thread. Aside from this being a rather patronising post (look at me, i'm a cynic, i know better than you,but one day you'll learn young padowan) can I ask who the people you fell in love with at Newcastle are, Bob? Not to touch a sensitive area, but i'm guessing you are older than a lot on here, but unless you're over 50 I doubt you have many memories of us winning anything more meaningful than the first (second) division under Keegan and even if over 50, to have allowed yourself to only fall in love with one Newcastle team / manager must be a pretty depressing state of affairs for a big football fan, i'd honestly question why you even bother. To further your analogy and make it slightly more specific as one of the comments on the discussed article did, I'd rather have f***ed Cheryl Cole in the face a few times and have the photos to prove it, even if that meant getting dumped for Ashley fricking Cole and humiliated. As your analogy feels pretty much like one tired cliche, here's another - better to have loved and lost than never loved at all. If someone told me we could have one trophy but none of the Keegan years I know which I would choose. Do you think being a Portsmouth fan and having won an FA Cup against Cardiff would make you feel more excited about the game than watching our team in the 90s? I suppose I took the risk of being patronising, but I was irritated by what I felt was a silly article and the way lots of people were reacting to it. Loving and losing and not loving at all aren't the only options. That's the point. The winning mentality combines passion with the ability to think clearly, remain focused and remain strong when things are going against you. Another problem with falling in love is that you can lose sight of reality. That's what seems to happen with a lot of supporters of Keegan. An issue with our club is this tendency to indulge in hero-worship. At times, it feels like a substitute for success, or at least it acts like a block to it. Ok, they're all fair points, but my original question still stands - who are those, in your time as a Newcastle fan, you have really loved? I can see how it gets annoying with the 'keegan can do no wrong' argument (although i think all but the most blinkered accept this isn't the case), but aren't you at risk of going too far the other way, into the realms of a bit of a misery guts? For anyone between the ages of 20 - 45 I'm going to stick my neck on the line and say the time Keegan was at Newcastle as manager (first time) was their best time as a toon fan. Regardless of title losses, mental breakdowns, walk outs, etc. they were our best times as Newcastle fans. He is the man most responsible for those great times. It's irrelevant whether someone else could have done better with the resources he had at the time, they didn't as they weren't here and we didn't want anyone else here. Yes, recent happenings have tarnished that, but that doesn't stop the fact that what he did was something pretty spectacular. So by all means, hate him for what he's done now (i certainly don't, but that's a different argument) but please don't try and take away from what he did to this club in the early / mid nineties. It was a special time in a lot of people's lives because of what he did. That's not sentimentality from a personal perspective, it's a fact. I'm still passionate about our club, and football in general. At times it feels more like an obsession than love, but the desire is still there. I've loved watching certain players in action - Tony Green, Gazza, Rob Lee, Beardsley, Bellamy and Shearer (before his decline) are particular favourites. I don't know if you're any the wiser there. I'm aware that I was pissing on people's parade a bit with my take on the Caulkin article and that's why I might have seemed a misery. Maybe I should have let it pass but there was something there that really annoyed me. I enjoyed the Keegan rise to the top just like everyone else. I think I enjoyed Sir Bob's upward charge more because I really felt the team was over-achieving, but yeah, of course there were good times with KK. Keegan's not without his qualities - he showed drive and passion and that was important in energising the whole club and persuading players to join. He wouldn't have done it without the heavy financial backing, but yes overall of course it was an achievement. But we didn't win any major trophies, and Keegan hasn't done so throughout his managerial career, which has been very stop-start. I don't think that's bad luck. I think there are certain qualities which the real winners have that Keegan lacks. That's all I was saying. I've posted a lot in this thread and I don't want to be repeating myself, but I'll give you a concrete example of what I think separates the Fergusons of this world from the Keegans. It was 1992 when Ferguson had his first real tilt at the title. There was a neck and neck race with Leeds that year, and Man U just lost out, somewhat undeservedly. Now at that time there was real pressure on the Man U manager. They hadn't won the league since 1967, and a string of managers since Matt Busby had tried and failed. It's a bit like Liverpool now, only worse. Ferguson's master stroke was that in the following close season, he bought precisely nobody. The expectation was that he would do what previous Man U managers had done and try and get in those extra one or two players who would supposedly make the difference. Instead, he gave his players the message that they were good enough and so they were able to move forward from failure. That took both guts and brains, because if they'd failed again, everyone would have been pointing at Ferguson's inaction and blaming that. Halfway through the season, he spent a modest £2million on a certain Frenchman who hadn't held down a regular place at Leeds and who had a reputation for indiscipline. It was completely unexpected and regarded as a risk. Again, Ferguson wasn't afraid and backed his own judgement. How did Keegan respond to failure? He went and spent a world record fee on the England centre forward. Shearer was a very good player but scoring wasn't the problem and the money could have been spent somewhere else. He compounded the error by taking the No 9 shirt from last season's leading goalscorer. Halfway through the season, he lost heart and walked. Basically, Ferguson faced up to failure and kept a cool head. Keegan had the stuffing knocked out of him and his nerve and judgement followed. I don't know if you saw that recent 'Time of our Lives' programme with Ginola, Howey and Bez, but what came across was their anger and frustration at Keegan's failure to push on from 2nd place. The mark of the winner is the ability to respond and learn from a setback. What utter bullshit.

Mmhmm i agree, i also wish Bobby Robson didn't manage us, he had no judge of character bringing in Dyer, Bellamy, Bowyer, all at the end of the day fucked us with their ill discipline, it led FFS to bring in Souness to sort it out who wasted millions. SBR won fuck all here, so is about on par with all the rest of them, failures.

Ronaldinho was already there waiting right? Also Pato looks canny.

obviously its because i have them in an accumulator. I was thinking of either this match or the Osasuna one, atm i am obviously regretting it. Oh well. Still a bit of time left for us!

Ah why haven't Espanyol scored yet ..

Leicester iirc were unbeaten at home for more than a year, so it was a surprise tbh.

Yeh, I really don't rate Shola.

What a pass from Fabregas

When it comes to hold up play, linking up, and heading ability Carroll pisses on Shola from a great height tbh. Admittedly haven't seen him strike the ball often enough to comment on that part of his game.

Shola's technique is appalling.

He is a very good player

i dont intend to jinx you.. but well done so far

Rangers goal tally may not be rising, but his assist's certainly are.

Nicky Butt stay down

lushh, i hate both of them but well done you two!

What a chant

Because Curbs resigned while KK believes he was constructively dismissed is my take on it. curbs did.

That's a staggering statement. It would have found that Keegan was forced out. How can he still be blamed? How does getting compensation prove he did nothing wrong though? Er he would have won his case, that he couldn't do his job as initially agreed upon and that he was forced out they had breached his contract and that he had valid grounds to sue for his treatment. What would he have done wrong? He could have gone in the summer when he was fully aware of the system he was working in, not waited until the day after the transfer window closed to maximise the damage it would cause. He was clearly pissed off when he gave that interview after the Chelsea game at the end of the season - why not go then? He could also not have spent the whole time he was here telling the supporters via the press that he was happy with the situation and that there wasn't a problem. Mind that's not the story he obviously told in his off the record conversations is it? People (myself included) laughed and said all of these journalists were making s*** up, but the truth is he's been dishonest throughout. he stayed untill the day he sent Wise and llambiarse out to sign Schweinsteiger, and they came back with two other muppets instead. Then Camels back was broken by this last straw. Keegan couldnt have known this would happen. He didn't "send them out" because they didn't report to him, he reported to them. Whether that's right or wrong (and it's wrong) that's the way it worked. OK then wrong choice of words. They told keegan they were going to sign him, and Didnt. They lied to Keegan. Would you stay in your job under management like that. Robson was sure he'd get Miguel and ended up with f***ing Carr. If ever there was a reason to walk............. "They lied to Keegan"? Get a grip, every manager has a similar story, things change. Wenger, Ferguson among others said they would have done the same in KK situation. There goes your theory. Milner wanted out. Handed in a transfer request, keegan failed to persuad him to stay, or didn't fancy him more than the money, so he got his wish and left. Amazingly we couldn't persuade Swienstiger to jump on board. Ronaldo? I'm sure old red nose was livid he didn't get at least Messi, christ, the board couldn't even get him Ribéry despite assurances. INSTANT SULK? No, he gets on with it. As for the s*** Wenger has had to put up with... Keegan pushes out his bottom lip far too often. Wenger and Furguson might support their fellow managers but have had to deal with worse themselves, dealt with it, and got into a position that deserves respect if they walked on principle. Keegan on the other hand, has not. Keegan says it's fine, we may not get anyone in this transfer window but the money will be used to add to the squad with quality when we can. Ferguson scouted Valencia for at least a year. Most top clubs have multiple targets. Most top clubs let the manager pick who they sign, who is available for sale. Ferguson and Wenger do get on with it, they are allowed to without hindrance from anyone. Without hindrance? Wenger has alway been forced into sales. Keegan said he was happy with the Milner money whether it was spent that summer or later. Its' not a case of being lied to about Swienstieger. We didnt get him. End of. Keegan may have had other irons in the fire, but it was too late in the day for that window, he changed he tune and buggered off. End of. He would have been willing to move on if you miss a target... Woodgate, Modric, etc but when players are forced onto you.. then... what would Wenger do?

That's a staggering statement. It would have found that Keegan was forced out. How can he still be blamed? How does getting compensation prove he did nothing wrong though? Er he would have won his case, that he couldn't do his job as initially agreed upon and that he was forced out they had breached his contract and that he had valid grounds to sue for his treatment. What would he have done wrong? He could have gone in the summer when he was fully aware of the system he was working in, not waited until the day after the transfer window closed to maximise the damage it would cause. He was clearly pissed off when he gave that interview after the Chelsea game at the end of the season - why not go then? He could also not have spent the whole time he was here telling the supporters via the press that he was happy with the situation and that there wasn't a problem. Mind that's not the story he obviously told in his off the record conversations is it? People (myself included) laughed and said all of these journalists were making s*** up, but the truth is he's been dishonest throughout. he stayed untill the day he sent Wise and llambiarse out to sign Schweinsteiger, and they came back with two other muppets instead. Then Camels back was broken by this last straw. Keegan couldnt have known this would happen. He didn't "send them out" because they didn't report to him, he reported to them. Whether that's right or wrong (and it's wrong) that's the way it worked. OK then wrong choice of words. They told keegan they were going to sign him, and Didnt. They lied to Keegan. Would you stay in your job under management like that. Robson was sure he'd get Miguel and ended up with f***ing Carr. If ever there was a reason to walk............. "They lied to Keegan"? Get a grip, every manager has a similar story, things change. Wenger, Ferguson among others said they would have done the same in KK situation. There goes your theory. Milner wanted out. Handed in a transfer request, keegan failed to persuad him to stay, or didn't fancy him more than the money, so he got his wish and left. Amazingly we couldn't persuade Swienstiger to jump on board. Ronaldo? I'm sure old red nose was livid he didn't get at least Messi, christ, the board couldn't even get him Ribéry despite assurances. INSTANT SULK? No, he gets on with it. As for the s*** Wenger has had to put up with... Keegan pushes out his bottom lip far too often. Wenger and Furguson might support their fellow managers but have had to deal with worse themselves, dealt with it, and got into a position that deserves respect if they walked on principle. Keegan on the other hand, has not. Keegan says it's fine, we may not get anyone in this transfer window but the money will be used to add to the squad with quality when we can. Ferguson scouted Valencia for at least a year. Most top clubs have multiple targets. Most top clubs let the manager pick who they sign, who is available for sale. Ferguson and Wenger do get on with it, they are allowed to without hindrance from anyone. Without hindrance? Wenger has alway been forced into sales. Keegan said he was happy with the Milner money whether it was spent that summer or later. Its' not a case of being lied to about Swienstieger. We didnt get him. End of. Keegan may have had other irons in the fire, but it was too late in the day for that window, he changed he tune and buggered off. Ok name ONE example. If he always has been forced too this should be easy enough.

That's a staggering statement. It would have found that Keegan was forced out. How can he still be blamed? How does getting compensation prove he did nothing wrong though? Er he would have won his case, that he couldn't do his job as initially agreed upon and that he was forced out they had breached his contract and that he had valid grounds to sue for his treatment. What would he have done wrong? He could have gone in the summer when he was fully aware of the system he was working in, not waited until the day after the transfer window closed to maximise the damage it would cause. He was clearly pissed off when he gave that interview after the Chelsea game at the end of the season - why not go then? He could also not have spent the whole time he was here telling the supporters via the press that he was happy with the situation and that there wasn't a problem. Mind that's not the story he obviously told in his off the record conversations is it? People (myself included) laughed and said all of these journalists were making s*** up, but the truth is he's been dishonest throughout. he stayed untill the day he sent Wise and llambiarse out to sign Schweinsteiger, and they came back with two other muppets instead. Then Camels back was broken by this last straw. Keegan couldnt have known this would happen. He didn't "send them out" because they didn't report to him, he reported to them. Whether that's right or wrong (and it's wrong) that's the way it worked. OK then wrong choice of words. They told keegan they were going to sign him, and Didnt. They lied to Keegan. Would you stay in your job under management like that. Robson was sure he'd get Miguel and ended up with f***ing Carr. If ever there was a reason to walk............. "They lied to Keegan"? Get a grip, every manager has a similar story, things change. Wenger, Ferguson among others said they would have done the same in KK situation. There goes your theory. You have to be kidding me? Seriously. Er they said if they had no control over transfers they would walk away. Seriously. Would they have agreed to it in the first place? No, that's why if their jobs changed they would have walked. Probably sued too. What if Keegan did agree to it though? Are you thick? He won't win. However a lot of contradicting quotes pre Keegan and post Keegan, about who will report to who, and who has final say from Ashley and co, not to mention their history of bullshit. I'm more willing to believe KK. If he wins, he was right to walk. Not thick enough to operate at your level clearly. Who won't win what? All I asked is How getting compensation would prove he did nothing wrong when he walked. I've then posted reasons I think are grounds for him having done something irrespective of whether he wins or loses the court case. and What if Keegan had agreed to operate in the system? Your a bit of idiot, if Keegan did agree to that.. he won't win his claim for constructive dismissal the courts will see he doesn't have a chance. Your seriously can't understand this? The courts by giving Keegan compensation would have agreed with him that his employer breached his contract of employment and were trying to force him out. So he was right to walk.. understand yet? I've asked two separate questions. They obviously can't have the same answer. Both are what if.................? EDIT: And obviously it should be "You're a bit of an idiot............ [/irony] You have asked twice what if Keegan agreed to the supposed system where Wise was in charge of transfers and I have replied.. he won't win his tribunal claim because he would be in the wrong. What is difficult to understand about that?

Either way i'm glad it's going to court.

That's a staggering statement. It would have found that Keegan was forced out. How can he still be blamed? How does getting compensation prove he did nothing wrong though? Er he would have won his case, that he couldn't do his job as initially agreed upon and that he was forced out they had breached his contract and that he had valid grounds to sue for his treatment. What would he have done wrong? He could have gone in the summer when he was fully aware of the system he was working in, not waited until the day after the transfer window closed to maximise the damage it would cause. He was clearly pissed off when he gave that interview after the Chelsea game at the end of the season - why not go then? He could also not have spent the whole time he was here telling the supporters via the press that he was happy with the situation and that there wasn't a problem. Mind that's not the story he obviously told in his off the record conversations is it? People (myself included) laughed and said all of these journalists were making s*** up, but the truth is he's been dishonest throughout. he stayed untill the day he sent Wise and llambiarse out to sign Schweinsteiger, and they came back with two other muppets instead. Then Camels back was broken by this last straw. Keegan couldnt have known this would happen. He didn't "send them out" because they didn't report to him, he reported to them. Whether that's right or wrong (and it's wrong) that's the way it worked. OK then wrong choice of words. They told keegan they were going to sign him, and Didnt. They lied to Keegan. Would you stay in your job under management like that. Robson was sure he'd get Miguel and ended up with f***ing Carr. If ever there was a reason to walk............. "They lied to Keegan"? Get a grip, every manager has a similar story, things change. Wenger, Ferguson among others said they would have done the same in KK situation. There goes your theory. You have to be kidding me? Seriously. Er they said if they had no control over transfers they would walk away. Seriously. Would they have agreed to it in the first place? No, that's why if their jobs changed they would have walked. Probably sued too. What if Keegan did agree to it though? Are you thick? He won't win. However a lot of contradicting quotes pre Keegan and post Keegan, about who will report to who, and who has final say from Ashley and co, not to mention their history of bullshit. I'm more willing to believe KK. If he wins, he was right to walk. Not thick enough to operate at your level clearly. Who won't win what? All I asked is How getting compensation would prove he did nothing wrong when he walked. I've then posted reasons I think are grounds for him having done something irrespective of whether he wins or loses the court case. and What if Keegan had agreed to operate in the system? How could Keegan win his case if he had agreed to operate in the system? That's basically the crux of the decision. There is plenty of contradicting quotes in regards to what the system was, who reported to who and so forth.

That's a staggering statement. It would have found that Keegan was forced out. How can he still be blamed? How does getting compensation prove he did nothing wrong though? Er he would have won his case, that he couldn't do his job as initially agreed upon and that he was forced out they had breached his contract and that he had valid grounds to sue for his treatment. What would he have done wrong? He could have gone in the summer when he was fully aware of the system he was working in, not waited until the day after the transfer window closed to maximise the damage it would cause. He was clearly pissed off when he gave that interview after the Chelsea game at the end of the season - why not go then? He could also not have spent the whole time he was here telling the supporters via the press that he was happy with the situation and that there wasn't a problem. Mind that's not the story he obviously told in his off the record conversations is it? People (myself included) laughed and said all of these journalists were making s*** up, but the truth is he's been dishonest throughout. he stayed untill the day he sent Wise and llambiarse out to sign Schweinsteiger, and they came back with two other muppets instead. Then Camels back was broken by this last straw. Keegan couldnt have known this would happen. He didn't "send them out" because they didn't report to him, he reported to them. Whether that's right or wrong (and it's wrong) that's the way it worked. OK then wrong choice of words. They told keegan they were going to sign him, and Didnt. They lied to Keegan. Would you stay in your job under management like that. Robson was sure he'd get Miguel and ended up with f***ing Carr. If ever there was a reason to walk............. "They lied to Keegan"? Get a grip, every manager has a similar story, things change. Wenger, Ferguson among others said they would have done the same in KK situation. There goes your theory. You have to be kidding me? Seriously. Er they said if they had no control over transfers they would walk away. Seriously. Would they have agreed to it in the first place? No, that's why if their jobs changed they would have walked. Probably sued too. What if Keegan did agree to it though? Are you thick? He won't win. However a lot of contradicting quotes pre Keegan and post Keegan, about who will report to who, and who has final say from Ashley and co, not to mention their history of bullshit. I'm more willing to believe KK. If he wins, he was right to walk. Not thick enough to operate at your level clearly. Who won't win what? All I asked is How getting compensation would prove he did nothing wrong when he walked. I've then posted reasons I think are grounds for him having done something irrespective of whether he wins or loses the court case. and What if Keegan had agreed to operate in the system? Your a bit of idiot, if Keegan did agree to that.. he won't win his claim for constructive dismissal the courts will see he doesn't have a chance. Your seriously can't understand this? The courts by giving Keegan compensation would have agreed with him that his employer breached his contract of employment and were trying to force him out. So he was right to walk.. understand yet?

Stuff like that isn't allowed, sorry. All top managers do that. I remember Ferguson saying something like he would walk if Ronaldo was sold, when he was finally sold it would have been with the full consent of Fergie. Where did he say that? (Genuine question) Marca. http://sportscene.excite.co.uk/news/2909/Ferguson-threatens-to-quit-if-Ronaldo-leaves

That's a staggering statement. It would have found that Keegan was forced out. How can he still be blamed? How does getting compensation prove he did nothing wrong though? Er he would have won his case, that he couldn't do his job as initially agreed upon and that he was forced out they had breached his contract and that he had valid grounds to sue for his treatment. What would he have done wrong? He could have gone in the summer when he was fully aware of the system he was working in, not waited until the day after the transfer window closed to maximise the damage it would cause. He was clearly pissed off when he gave that interview after the Chelsea game at the end of the season - why not go then? He could also not have spent the whole time he was here telling the supporters via the press that he was happy with the situation and that there wasn't a problem. Mind that's not the story he obviously told in his off the record conversations is it? People (myself included) laughed and said all of these journalists were making s*** up, but the truth is he's been dishonest throughout. he stayed untill the day he sent Wise and llambiarse out to sign Schweinsteiger, and they came back with two other muppets instead. Then Camels back was broken by this last straw. Keegan couldnt have known this would happen. He didn't "send them out" because they didn't report to him, he reported to them. Whether that's right or wrong (and it's wrong) that's the way it worked. OK then wrong choice of words. They told keegan they were going to sign him, and Didnt. They lied to Keegan. Would you stay in your job under management like that. Robson was sure he'd get Miguel and ended up with f***ing Carr. If ever there was a reason to walk............. "They lied to Keegan"? Get a grip, every manager has a similar story, things change. Wenger, Ferguson among others said they would have done the same in KK situation. There goes your theory. Milner wanted out. Handed in a transfer request, keegan failed to persuad him to stay, or didn't fancy him more than the money, so he got his wish and left. Amazingly we couldn't persuade Swienstiger to jump on board. Ronaldo? I'm sure old red nose was livid he didn't get at least Messi, christ, the board couldn't even get him Ribéry despite assurances. INSTANT SULK? No, he gets on with it. As for the s*** Wenger has had to put up with... Keegan pushes out his bottom lip far too often. Wenger and Furguson might support their fellow managers but have had to deal with worse themselves, dealt with it, and got into a position that deserves respect if they walked on principle. Keegan on the other hand, has not. Keegan says it's fine, we may not get anyone in this transfer window but the money will be used to add to the squad with quality when we can. Ferguson scouted Valencia for at least a year. Most top clubs have multiple targets. Most top clubs let the manager pick who they sign, who is available for sale. Ferguson and Wenger do get on with it, they are allowed to without hindrance from anyone.