dcmk

But my point concerned a bigger picture. Glad to hear it. You also have all the excuses down pat. Fact remains, though, that Shepherd spectacularly failed to build on our brief flirtation with the Champions League. Spectacularly failed? By appointing the wrong man - (again for the right reasons) this was his only mistake and he backed him - like good chairmen do - Owen (One of england top goal scorers) to replace a legend, Luque (supposed to be brilliant), Boumsong (frnech international) highly rated - these signings all failed. Football has risk attached to it, if we signed Messi tomorrow no 100% guarantees he will be a success here. If we appointed Hitzfeld no guarantees blah blah blah. As for my original question we were in Europe most years, 3rd, 4th, 5th - under Bobby which is quite 'sustained' assault on the Champions League places. You still haven't answered what more he could of done in SBR's reign. .. ..this is the 3rd time of asking. How is 3 years around those places among the elite clubs not over spending but instead considered 'not good enough'?

We was in Europe consistently and among the elite teams in England. Ok i will come at this from a different angle what could Shepherd have done more in Sir Bobby's campaign to 'sustain' a challenge? I remember one season when we was top at the start of December, sounds like a club running well to me Did he need to employ a Director of Football, spend more on youth? just what buddy, you have got me very curious. Strengthened a team that had lost a lot of its swagger after the Man U 2-6 ahead of the Partizan game? Handled the end of Robson's reign more intelligently? Not appointed Souness? Not thrown so much money at Souness? Not borrowed more money to deal with the effect of earlier borrowings? Not appointed Roeder? Generally, also, yes, throughout the old board's reign we should have paid a lot more attention to developing players, and had some kind of better scouting set-up that might have seen us not spend quite so much money on dross (you're always going to have signings that don't work out, but we really did waste a lot of money on players such as Marcelino, Luque, Viana, Boumsong...). We were also always crap at handling succession, with wild swings of approach and style from one manager to another. Whatever, the fact is that the old board failed to build a sustainable set-up. Alas, Ashley is currently making precisely the opposite mistake -- looking for long-term sustainability while neglecting the short-term. I said during Sir Bobby Robsons campaign, we all know the mistakes after that. He appointed the wrong manager (for all the right reasons) and Roeder temporary charge of the team at the end of that reason was remarkable. Fully deserved his contract, i don't see how you can argue with letting go of a manager who was getting results. Succession of managers is always a difficult thing, after Mourinho and Grant was Scolari the right choice? No, Ramos? No. There is always risk in appointing a manager. However the thing you must do is back them, which Shepherd did. He couldnt of done much more during SBR's spell too, SBR reign was falling apart around him.

We was in Europe consistently and among the elite teams in England. Ok i will come at this from a different angle what could Shepherd have done more in Sir Bobby's campaign to 'sustain' a challenge? I remember one season when we was top at the start of December, sounds like a club running well to me Did he need to employ a Director of Football, spend more on youth? just what buddy, you have got me very curious.

What? It was a success - how is it anything but a success in all honesty?! "We were unable to sustain a challenge", 4th,3rd and 5th consecutive seasons and we try to replace Sir Bobby whos time was up, but got the wrong man (for the right reasons). I can't see what your arguing, those 3 seasons are the best we are going to have for a long time and that's because everything worked Shepherd picked the right manager, backed him gave him time and we reaped the rewards. Good way to run a football club. When he didn't spend in the summer of Bowyer - (to balance the books no doubt!) - he gets slated for it! Couldn't make it up.

The article is hard to take seriously, i want a good manager and some stability and ambition from the guys in charge but 3 main parts of that letter that bugged me. 1st bold bit - he hasn't had many games, absolute crap team. Captain won't sign a contract all the players pretty much want out. He hasn't had a full season in charge, but im sure this person expects the likes of Coloccini to be given a full season rather than be judged over 15-20 games. 2) Is just point scoring, and a bit of a piss take. 3) If they did that and say brought in Paul Ince (before blackburn) and he failed would you be behind the appointment, when he is sacked. or in hindsight would people believe 'should never have appointed a young manager, need some experienced here'. The fact that Kinnear is statisctically the 2nd worst in 107 years is very significant tbh. He has absolutely no excuse for that because you cannot honestly tell me that we've not had worse teams than the current one How can you call him the 2nd worst manager in our history when he has had about 20 games in charge, are you kidding me? If he wins say 5 of his next games would he all of a sudden become one of the top managers we have ever had? ..and people say he wouldnt judge our summer signings so soon, jesus fucking christ.

The article is hard to take seriously, i want a good manager and some stability and ambition from the guys in charge but 3 main parts of that letter that bugged me. 1st bold bit - he hasn't had many games, absolute crap team. Captain won't sign a contract all the players pretty much want out. He hasn't had a full season in charge, but im sure this person expects the likes of Coloccini to be given a full season rather than be judged over 15-20 games. 2) Is just point scoring, and a bit of a piss take. 3) If they did that and say brought in Paul Ince (before blackburn) and he failed would you be behind the appointment, when he is sacked. or in hindsight would people believe 'should never have appointed a young manager, need some experienced here'.

O'Brien was 10 million? What's that got to do with it? You could say has Coloccini had 8 years in the Premiership? Argentine international? Worth 10 million isn't performing because he hasn't had 8 years experience in the Premier League? On this years evidence i would rather have Titus Bramble, not even kidding, Coloccini hasn't been any better has cost us more and im sure he is on a fair wage with good bonuses. Add to the fact he has hardly any attributes to make him a success in this league, it's not about adapting he genuinely can't cope with the speed and the psychical side of the game. I don't believe the comparison with O'Brien is fair, 10 million compared to peanuts for O'Brien and the latter was in a Champions League team believe or not He hasn't even had a season in the premiership and you're writing him off. He wasn't all that in his first season for Depor either but soon became one of their best and most consistent players. You're acting as if he's as bad as Boumsong and he's no way near. The original post compared Coloccini to O'Brien which is daft, as O'Brien didnt cost a fraction of Colo's transfer fee and played in a successful side. Coloccini genuinely don't look much better at the moment, and am i right in saying he has been our player with the most appearances? I'm not writing him off, expected alot more for an established Argentine international. He has been very disappointing. Bassong has really shown him up, and he has barely any experience compared to his team mate.

O'Brien was 10 million? What's that got to do with it? You could say has Coloccini had 8 years in the Premiership? Argentine international? Worth 10 million isn't performing because he hasn't had 8 years experience in the Premier League? On this years evidence i would rather have Titus Bramble, not even kidding, Coloccini hasn't been any better has cost us more and im sure he is on a fair wage with good bonuses. Add to the fact he has hardly any attributes to make him a success in this league, it's not about adapting he genuinely can't cope with the speed and the psychical side of the game. I don't believe the comparison with O'Brien is fair, 10 million compared to peanuts for O'Brien and the latter was in a Champions League team believe or not

Nah check his record everywhere he has been, goal scoring record is abysmal for a winger.

O'Brien was 10 million?

Wigan fans didn't rate Taylor, all pretty much stated that he is playing at a level too high and would be canny in the championship. Other than his freekicks and one or two crosses what has he done? With them and us? N'Zogbia well he was never settled in the side, never playing, when he did how many times was he out of position, so many different managers, Newcastle has been run like an utter joke for a long, long time. I dont blame him for wanting out. He had alot more to his game than Taylor will ever have. Composure, direct, able to create space for others and stretch teams. If had the choice between the two and needed someone to change the game, it would be N'Zogbia every single time. Look at his goal today can Taylor do that?

Keegan got him to play well

No he's not. Went to Barca v Real Mallorca last season and he came on as a sub. Seriously, it was one of the worst performances I've seen. Was booed by the Barca fans. Being fair, one game. The lad has talent. His managers seem to think so too.

I do blame alot of the fans including myself to some extent, we don't create the atmosphere of old that made St James' a fortress and people are constantly protesting and were even booing the team. We need sod all this crap and back the team. It's 2 way thing though - if fans see the players can't be bothered why should they put the effort in. Why are the fans held responsible whenever anything goes wrong at Newcastle. As far as I am concerned, it all comes down to bad decision making by Ashley & co. We've got decent players - better than our relegation rivals. A decent manager would have them in the top half of the table. Yes this is fair enough, with a decent manager we would be half way up the table, we don't have one, the players don't decide this. Adding pressure to them will only make things worse, people can say whatever the like about Ashley but just support the team, we give ourselves a rep as fairweather support, i.e. we only have a good atmosphere when we are doing well. We outsang Liverpool when we were 5-1 down. we didn't at 0-1,1-2 and 1-3 though perhaps when the players needed it most. Have to disagree here. We outsang them the whole game. Wow a lunch time kick off and not really a contest. Plus being televised.

They will be happy we got relegated? They are completely obsessed about club being run into the ground, so they create a group where they try and get attention from NUFC and slam them for previous decisions which has led to our situation - so they can say 'i told you so' thats unreal.

Well comes down to the fact that people want to believe we have a more positive future than the shit we are in at the moment and the only way for us to believe that, is to discuss/argue the owner's previous actions and current plans and speculate on transfer budgets and such.

bullshit "fact". he has sacked 1 manager he didnt appoint and who the vast majority of fans wanted out. I take your comment on board. Would you agree that. Ashley had 3 managers at the club in the space of one year. Ashley has made significant compensation payments to two of them (or will have soon enough) one of whom was extraordinarily popular and doing very well. manager #1 has been explained above. manager #2 quit and isnt guaranteed any payout (though it is likely he'll get something) and manager #3 took over because manager #2 quit and is still currently employed as our manager. to compare this to shepherd's hirings and sackings is insane. I don't think Shepherd made a hash of a single managerial departure as much as Ashley screwed up in letting Keegan qo. Nor do I think he screwed up any appointment as badly as Ashley screwed up when he gave the job to Kinnear. Can you give me an example? f*** me What was wrong with what he said? The whole thing was a fiasco

Huh? It rarely gets called 'the emirates'?

At this time we would be lucky to get 3million a season. We should wait until we are in a better negotiating position after all we are in no rush for cash right? When we are debt free

Could we perhaps change the thread title to 'messiah back for spurs game?!'

KK said “That’s the first time I’ve seen him in a match." on 28th July 2008. Which is incontravertible evidence that Bassong knew what you'd expect him to know about his transfer from Metz to Newcastle. His level of English at the time would not have been good enough to understand the nuances of the deal. The key message from his agent would have been 'the manager likes you and wants you'. Of course if Keegan knew all about him and had already scouted him, why did he need to bring him in on trial? And why did he say "“That’s the first time I’ve seen him in a match."? What this debate demonstrates to me is how sensitised football supporters have become to discussing millions of pounds worth of money because the premise of this argument is that one person pops up during a weekly meeting, shouts a name out and from there on in, the player is this persons signing and its done and dusted. Even for Bassong's relatively small fee (Small!! Not even the worlds biggest clubs just throw 1.5m around on the off chance the player is ok), the decision to buy him would have been a mix of someone coming up with a list of needs, somone coming up with a list of players that meet these needs, some lengthy discussion about which ones to look at, further lengthy discussions about whether a trial is needed, the trial itself and as far as i can tell, Keegan having the final choice over the signing like he was meant to have all along. It seems to me that the quote from the player (who would know the least about how his name ended up on a piece of paper in a meeting on football affairs at SJP in 2008) is what he was told (the manager thinks you're great) and the quote from Keegan suggests, contrary to what Bassong thinks, “That’s the first time I’ve seen him in a match." Doesnt all this just tell us that a team of people were in place to manage transfers with the final say being Keegans? Which is pretty much how its been sold to us. There are so many assumptions in your post. It's obvious all were involved. The facts are Llambias said Bassong was Wise's, when Bassong himself has said something on the lines of Keegan was. Im speculating but Keegans quote you kept mentioning could in fact be about seeing him in a Newcastle match, as before that he had just been doing training with the club.

If they did, can anyone defend Ashley and co anymore? or would it be 'balancing the books for a better long term future shit' taken to another surreal level of denial.

Some nice scouting work if true.

Suing the club for OBVIOUSLY valid reasons or he wouldnt have a case right? If the people above him stuck to their job descriptions and been good boys they may be £9 million pounds better off come next season. Like i say, if a manager was sacked he would want his compensation. Same thing. Managers get compensation which amounts to the remainder of there contract. He was here 9 months, so what kind of f***ing contract do you believe he was on to warrant £9 million compensation? Im using the press figure of 9million, which is probably off. If he was being forced out - which is very possible - if the 3 of them didnt have a good working relationship, he felt couldnt do the job he was employed to do. He wouldn't stand there and take it. The timing - transfer deadline was obviously very dissapointed. Also look at his body language after the Coventry game talking about James Milners future something disturbed him. Hopefully the truth will come out

Suing the club for OBVIOUSLY valid reasons or he wouldnt have a case right? If the people above him stuck to their job descriptions and been good boys they may be £9 million pounds better off come next season. Like i say, if a manager was sacked he would want his compensation. Same thing.