Unbelievable

My personal outlay? I have had a season ticket for two years when I lived in Newcastle. Since moving back to Holland I have gone to matches whenever I am in the region, which is about once every two months. I have also subscribed to a paid television station here that broadcasts nearly all Newcastle matches, and would gladly pay to watch a match online if there is no other way. Does it matter to my argument? Is this the only hole you can pick in it? It´s a good thing you are never online during our matches or you would look a little silly asking that question..

I assume I fall into that category, along with a few other posters like Tsunami and UV? Strangely, last summer after the Ashley takeover and with Sam Allardyce as our manager, there was mass euphoria on here and a few people including the people mentioned and myself declared we would not join the party before there was any reason to, i.e. before the new regime had shown its hand. We got a lot of stick for this stance at the time, just like we are getting stick now. However, we are one year down the line and the hand that has been shown so far is confusing to say the least. I think by now a lot of the people who were mass celebrating have had time to analyse the situation and are now on the fence themselves, saying they expect a few top class signings, be patient, will only be disappointed if it doesn´t happen, stop slitting your wrists et cetera. Since some of us started from a different perspective, i.e. on the fence and waiting to be convinced we have moved off the fence a little bit and are expressing our valid concerns about recent developments and the level of ambition that is being shown. It´s not because we want to be negative or don´t want the club to do well. it´s for exactly opposite reasons, i.e. we want to be positive and optimistic about the club, but for the right reasons and not just blind faith and hope. In short, what´s happened is people are waking up to the idea that a new regime does not necessarily mean everything is better than it used to be and the new board need to convince us, their paying customers and the lifelihood of their business, that they will continue to provide a product that is worth the outlay that they are charging..

Go to the first page in the thread. That was before we actually signed him man! Don´t you know he´s a good squad player now he´s signed for us, and a great piece of business from the club? Who's changed their minds like? Here´s one http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=53602.msg1389869#msg1389869 vs http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=53602.msg1362850#msg1362850

Agree with the sentiments of that post. I'd much rather have young, hungry players who are desperate to prove themselves than the likes of Duff, Smith, Carr etc who know they've already made it and are on huge wages. If he's good then great, if he's cack then at least he's not cost us much and will still be a good age when his contract runs out. This isn't to say we don't need immediate first-teamers - we do - but to complain at this deal for the supposed £2m is mental. [/NOT A CRITICISM OF THE OLD BOARD] I think a lot of the misunderstanding is due to the fact that people have different views of how we should build a good squad as quickly as possible (which IMHO we do need to as we are losing ground and have been for a few years). There is a camp that look at our current squad and conclude it is both small and not very strong. The best way to get it up to scratch is by buying some (doesn´t even have to be more than 3 or 4) very good players and move current first teamers to be squad players (the likes of Butt, Geremi, Taylor). There seems to be another camp that wants us to build from the ground up and don´t seem too concerned about the timing aspect (doesn´t have to be this upcoming season) as long as we slowly move in the right direction. In my mind, the second approach would suit a club with limited financial means and a good manager. In my opinion we are a club with a good manager that should be able to compete financially, like we have done for years and especially now we have a billionaire owning the club. I just don´t quite understand why we are taking chances on players who haven´t shown as far as I am aware extraordinary potential or quality unless we really need to. Luckily, we all seem agreed we need better quality transfers before the window shuts, so here´s hoping it happens and I can read my own posts back and laugh at my own impatience. For now though, I haven´t seen much to suggest that will happen. You can point at the club keeping its cards close to its chest and claim we don´t know anything, but I will point out that they have played their first two cards on the table already, and I have yet to be impressed.

Go to the first page in the thread. That was before we actually signed him man! Don´t you know he´s a good squad player now he´s signed for us, and a great piece of business from the club?

And by doing that you're not writing him off, unlike some people. Can you point me to some posts of people writing him off Mick?

We´ve got ourselves a low reputation player from the fringes of the top four! We´removing up in the world.. (just joking before some of you have another fit)

Oh, and to reply on topic as well, my stance is that we should indeed offer Owen reduced wages, not because I want us to reduce the wage bill but because Owen hasn´t been worth his wages for us over the course of his contract unfortunately. He has done well in the second half of last season, but has been a let down for us over the past three seasons (for reasons he can´t be held personally responsible for, I know). If he accepts I will be happy, if he doesn´t I will still be happy to sell him, recoup some money and look for a striker that will work well with Martins.

You want your cake and eat it too, yes? Eh? I want both parties to be happy - that means him signing with the club satisfied. If he's forced out neither party will be happy, and nor will I. Why are fuckers always trying to cause arguments on here? Well, I ´m not trying to pick a fight, just think it's a bit easy to be sitting on the fence on this one. We have a situation here and the club is handling it in a certain way. What you are saying is I will not be judging the action itself, but I will hold them accountable for the end result. Can you not form an opinion about what the club SHOULD be doing, rather than sit back and observe and judge by hindsight? What would you do if you were in charge of affairs at the club?

You want your cake and eat it too, yes?

The only reason that I'm bothered about the way we do our transfer business is that it gives us a better chance of getting the players we're after if other clubs don't know that we're actually after a player. It's been well publicised that we tried to get Rooney and would have got him if Man U hadn't come in for him after we'd gone in for him in the first place. Man U only involved themselves once they found out that we had made a bid so if things had been done on the quiet then we might have got him. The same applies to other players, if it gets out that we are after them then other clubs might decide that they also want the player. Is this so difficult to understand? Sigh, it's simple really: - buying club will always want to do the deal quietly to keep cost as low as possible; - if player involved potentially has other options available or is a player who maybe is of a higher profile than he buying club itself, buying club can resort to courting via the press to make it clear to the player they are very keen on him; - selling club will want to start an open auction involving other interested clubs with the aim to maximise it's earnings; - player will want to strike the best possible combination of club/wages. What you're saying isn't new or brilliant no matter how much you think it is. Nor is it something a club can adopt as a policy. A transfer involves at least three parties, and has its own dynamics depending on the profile of these parties.

is ameobi premiership proven ? Stop it, you're making yourself look ridiculous. Sober up please before you post again..

You're right we can't tell players or clubs to keep quiet and I can't remember saying that we could so maybe you could help me out and show me where I did say that. What we can do as a club is confirm nothing ourselves until the deal is done, then it's just seen as another rumour until we say we've done something. Players and agents seem to use Newcastle as a means of getting a players name into the papers when they are looking for a move so us saying nothing makes anything we're doing just look like that. Where did I mention the quality of signings will be better because of thw way we have conducted ourselves? You haven't said any such thing, but you have implied you have been impressed with the way we have conducted ourselves in these two transfers and rubished my comment about the way a deal is done being related to the quality of the player involved. Fair enough on you liking to do our deals quietly. Personally I couldn't give a rat's ass about how we pull off deals, as long as the quality of the player's involved is up to scratch, and so far that doesn't seem to be the case. For that reason, I think applauding the new setup for the way they have pulled these deals off is a completely mood point. I'd rather focus on the squad we will be putting out next season, and I remain worried. To put things into perspective, I have been impressed with Pompey's transfer dealings this summer so far (and since a few seasons tbf), even though Redknapp has used the press an awful lot to his advantage in attracting players, and is still doing so with SWP. Do you think Portsmouth supporters will be complaining about the public way their club conducts their transfer business?

It is a shame and shows what can go wrong when potential deals are made public, all the more reason to keep them quiet. Mick, the point is that you can't tell top players that are being courted by several other clubs to keep it quiet, nor can you make the selling club that is involved shut up about it. It is in bith their interests to forge the best possible deal for themselves, not us. That's why keeping things quiet will not work that well when we (hopefully) move onto bigger targets. Of course, when there's only one club interested and the player is not a high profile character that attracts a lot of media attention, keeping things quiet is far easier, but that in itself doesn't make them better signings. I can't believe I've had to explain this..

SWP not Premiership proven..? mackems.gif

The loss of Emre will have no negative effect on the team, he's either injured or ineffective so getting rid of him is a plus as far as I'm concerned. He may have been all that, he is/was also our best midfielder in terms of natural ability.. When has he ever shwon that natural ability? Certainly not in his set-pieces. He may have taken some shitty corners, he has also taken some of our best free kicks in recent years.

Maybe because the press knowing about our transfer dealings and the quality of the players involved are logically related? Do you really think we will sign top quality, high profile players without the press having a clue until it happens? A relatively unknown Argentinian and a low profile Liverpool youth/squad player yes, but somebody being courted by other big clubs? If so, what went wrong in the Modric (no) deal?

The loss of Emre will have no negative effect on the team, he's either injured or ineffective so getting rid of him is a plus as far as I'm concerned. He may have been all that, he is/was also our best midfielder in terms of natural ability..

Maybe the quality of players signed should count for a little more in your definition of sound transfer business dealing?

I think we'll sign at least one more midfielder. Inler or Larsson in as a first teamer, Derdiyok as "cover" for Viduka, a two footed fullback and a big trophy signing midfielder to keep everyone happy and shift some replica shirts. That would suit me. That would suit you? It would mean we would fall further behind our rivals who either already have stronger squads and first teams or will show much more ambition than bringing in some decent Premiership and promising foreign youngsters and one signing to really strengthen the first team, which is what you mean when you refer to a siging as a trophy signing, i.e. somebody with a bit of class about them? Inler & Larsson are established internationals, either of whom would strengthen the team, as would the trophy signing (lets say Aimar, the big name that has been linked). If we went into next season with N'Zogbia - Inler - Aimar - Gutierrez as our first choice midfield in a 4-4-2, retaining Guthrie, Butt, Milner & Barton as backups, I would consider that job well done. The teams that have built better squads than us - Spurs, Everton, and especially Pompey - did so over the course of several seasons. We aren't going to make up all that ground in one go. But if we made the signings I suggested, we would take a big leap forward IMO. Personally I wouldn't say the likes of Inler (how many people on here knew about him before Euro 2008) and Larsson (decent squad player maybe) would improve our team, especially if we were to lose Emre and Barton (for a while anyway). I would have hoped we are setting our sights higher than this.

I think we'll sign at least one more midfielder. Inler or Larsson in as a first teamer, Derdiyok as "cover" for Viduka, a two footed fullback and a big trophy signing midfielder to keep everyone happy and shift some replica shirts. That would suit me. That would suit you? It would mean we would fall further behind our rivals who either already have stronger squads and first teams or will show much more ambition than bringing in some decent Premiership and promising foreign youngsters and one signing to really strengthen the first team, which is what you mean when you refer to a siging as a trophy signing, i.e. somebody with a bit of class about them?

He´s a pretty stand up guy actually. This may come as a surprise to you, but high profile players attract a lot of attention when they move clubs. Of course, Newcastle is lauded by some on here for keeping their transfer business quiet lately, but then that may be because hardly anybody has ever heard about our transfer targets in the first place so there´s not actually much to write or shout about...

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11827_3805951,00.html Good call. Look mate, it's all over reputable Dutch media. We will see. No smoke without fire. Quotes from his agent: "Rafael wants to play in Spain next season. Several clubs are interested. We will discuss next week.` Those are quotes from Van der Vaart, but I guess you'll listen to his agent over him right? I will listen to both and point out your foolishness in a couple of days time for believing a player keeping the fans of his current club quiet before moving clubs, which will undoubtedly happen..

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11827_3805951,00.html Good call. Look mate, it's all over reputable Dutch media. We will see. No smoke without fire. Quotes from his agent: "Rafael wants to play in Spain next season. Several clubs are interested. We will discuss next week.`