Yorkie

I'll criticise when it's warranted; I literally did so in the post you quoted re Guehi. I thought the Trafford thing was conditional on us shifting Dubravka. We went back in for him even after Vlachodimos arrived iirc. And like I say, we're probably not even in for the likes of Trafford if PSR isn't a thing - we try to upgrade Pope.

It's on the club that they couldn't shift an ageing, rubbish, expensive Ashley relic who terminates his own loans? And it's on the club that the PL's anti-competitive rules forced us into making a deal which - as sods law would have it - required us to sign another keeper we didn't want? The Guehi fiasco is 'on the club'. The goalie situation I'm prepared to give them maximum grace for. If there's no PSR then we probably upgrade on Pope; let alone Dubravka. Honestly blows my mind that even an enemy as common as PSR still won't stop people from going after the club.

Gillespie literally doesn't count. Ruddy replaced Karius; it's perfectly fine to have a competent third choice goalkeeper. We tried to shift Dubravka but couldn't because he's rubbish, so we were stuck with him. Then we were forced to sign Vlachodimos to avoid a points ban because of anti-competitive rules. Ergo, no proper new goalkeeper. The window was crap but not everything has to be the fault of whichever person at the club you fancy slagging off from one day to the next.

That's not the point. We weren't going to get another keeper after Vlachodimos came in, were we?

We clearly want to upgrade on Pope but haven't had the financial wiggle room to do so. Then being forced into getting Vlachodimos to avoid a points ban ended any hopes of us upgrading even on Dubravka. As always, the rules are at the heart of the failure.

There were plenty of "you don't speak for me" types back then too.

I completely disagree. A player represents less of a gamble if they've already demonstrated that they can perform consistently at a high level in this league. I don't really see how that's up for debate. Obviously that isn't to say that it's impossible to buy poorly from the PL, or that it's inherently risky to buy from abroad; but if you've got limited financial wiggle room then it makes sense to identify 'surer' things at home. The trouble is, that market is inflated and more accessible to the rules' main beneficiaries.

The justified and prevailing complaint is that the sensitivity is so much greater in our case than others because of the bullshit, anti-competitive rules. In a couple of windows, Chelsea can blow £250m and God knows what wages on a few players who've already demonstrated their quality in this league, and it's no bother at all, whether or not those transfers work out. We do the same and suddenly it's "stop whinging, you made your choices"? Horseshit. PL players are appealing because their chances of success are more guaranteed; buying from abroad - although it can be cheaper up front, is riskier. Why should only a small number of teams have unfettered and consequence-free access to the lower-risk market?

I don't think the message on the banner holds that much relevance unless the fans are being gaslit about expectations + the club isn't trying. The message is still true imo, but it's not a particularly fair as a riposte to a fan who might complain that the club needs a change in order to progress. You're allowed to want better without being totally grounded by a message that was most relevant in 2014. But it certainly wasn't sanctimonious back then.

I can't get my head around people not aligning with the message on that banner. It wasn't sanctimonious at all. Its purpose was to highlight that the club wasn't even trying to compete, all the while the fanbase was being continuously gaslit around supposedly unrealistic expectations. I can't believe anyone who's been on this forum long enough wouldn't get that. Obviously we all want a team that wins; the point was that, at the time - after years of deliberate regression - all we wanted (at the very fucking least) was for us to have a go. Deluded Geordies think they should be in the top 4! Er, just trying for something more than 17th and the 3rd round of the cup would be decent, like.

Mad how I can still get so rattled by shit we were arguing about ten years ago.

This is just it. For clubs with desires on the Champions League places and/or silverware, the pool of managers that are both appealing and attainable seems incredibly small. That's why you get the likes of Chelsea changing managers like they're underwear; Man Utd sticking with Ten Hag longer than they wanted; Spurs lurching from one bad fit to another. I hope we give Howe time and resources to have a better second half to the season regardless, but I'm really dubious we could actually improve on him.

Wouldn't surprise me. He was squaring up to fans behind the dugout again the other day; the guy is pure Vanarama.

If you reckon 11/12 and/or 05/06 were better than last season then fair enough. I certainly don't, even if we picked up a few more points.

A season bettered only by those under Keegan, Robson and Howe himself, but aye alright.

I think you might be exaggerating a tad. The criticism has been pretty relentless the season (some of which I've contributed to) and I don't think I've constantly been in here jabbing pointy sticks at any Howe attackers. I'll admit that I've always prickled at criticism which I think is undeserved or doesn't afford enough consideration of context. If I'm generally more forgiving then it's because of the things I place value in and a lasting weariness of hating everything about the club. But I haven't dismissed anyone's views when I've not been in a position to actually defend my own, which is what you said in the first place. Glad this gave you and a few others the opportunity to discharge their irritations about my takes in the form of a Like, like!

Fair comment re availability but re the bit in bold; we spent fuck all this year which totally undermines earlier investment.

I'm sure if one of the others takes your view then they won't hesitate.

Eh? When have I done that?

People signing up exclusively to revel in negativity is tedious as fuck, agreed. Twitter shields us most of the time from that, thankfully. Not sure there's any wummery here though...

Didn't see today (or Wednesday) but if it was as abject as West Ham then you do fear for him a bit. Two performances in such quick succession where we've completely lost the plot indicates a pretty serious problem. Personally hope he's afforded a length of time uncharacteristic to the modern game in order to get it right.

Use the report function.

I'd take another point here. This season's going to be a slog, crucial that we stop losing to teams we have aspirations of finishing well above.

Was also limited (by choice? We'll never know) to extended highlights. Isak looked absolutely stupid in that first half. Goal of the season for me. The strike was as good as Barnes', arguably better, but the build up was lovely too. And you can't beat a strike that just keeps rising. Only regret is that it didn't go in off the bar.