Parky

I just wondered what academy you were talking about that's all, the Clairefontaine academy is known throughout the World although I wasn't aware Henry and Anelka were there at the same time as Henry was snapped up very young by Monaco, Houllier took a lot of credit for the place iirc when he was technical director of the French fa. As for Anelka, he was a huge talent as a kid but has never reached the potential he showed when he was at Arsenal, if he had stayed there then he could well of went on to be one of the best strikers in the World but a poor attitude and dodgy brothersagents made sure he never got anywhere close to that, similar to Cassano he'll be remembered as someone who wasted his talent. Agree with some of that. But I think he is ready for his last throw of the dice (striker like Anelka is peaking now). And despite his brothers he is mentally now where he perhaps should have been 4/5 years ago, Sam has been very happy with his attitude. In the right side very dangerous. It is really a shame in some ways, coming from a very poor background money has rather taken over, but who's to say we'd be any different. The time in Turkey was a silly mistake.

Correct. I don't know where people were banding this £6m from. Maybe they asre confusing it with the total compensation package fifa have for ALL players.

Why did you ask? I wrote an article about him for another site a year or so ago.....Still remember a fair bit from that.

The French national one iirc. Clairefontaine?

Good point. Martins WILL be better with the right partner.

Yes, the young Anelka was very, very raw and his touch was pretty poor. just like michael owen, who went on to win european footballer of the year. or drogba, whose technique is still relatively crap. not really up for debate imo so we'll have to agree to disagree. Did you remember clearly at Anelka by that time at Arsenal...when he running with sheer pace through the left flank alone and hardly any defender can catch him... then bang! scores... 1 word i can say...sublime... his touch nearly as good as ronaldo. Even by that time arsenal fans more rate Anelka than henry tbh. But shit attitude from wrong people who aid him... made him moaning & lazy. After that the true of him is vanished... Anelka and Henry were at the academy together and I believe they are still friends, as natural talent goes goes they had nearly everything to begin with and were just waiting for good coaching. Drogba was a late developer but in some ways I rate him more dangerous than the other two cause he has a much greater will to win and good skills (not quite in the Henry/Anelka league). Martins has little more than frightening pace and a hard shot which is very very wayward ( something like 36% on target iirc). He has barely no first touch and shiite postion sense. He will develop of course he will and I hope he does, but he doesn't have 'it'.

What shite?

I said it was "obvious" You cannot surely tell me Obafemi Martins doesn't have similar potential (albeit at a couple of years older), though? At times he looks fantastic on the ball, which shows that he does have the capabilities to have a regularly top-notch first-touch and also at times he can produce a fairly nifty pass/lay-off. This would also suggest to me a player who is not entirely lacking the basics! It's also what frustrates me so much about him. He clearly has all the required attributes/capabilities to excel in most aspects of the modern game, but it's just a matter of getting him to produce them on a regular basis. I know it might never happen, but it's certainly not beyond him. You're undoutably correct in saying that Anelka is currently the more well-rounded player and that he has pedigree to back him up, but as others have pointed out Martins has years on him age-wise (although that's probably debatable!) and hasn't shown the attitude problems that Nic showed during his more formative years. At this current point in time I'm fairly happy that we've got the Little Nigerian ahead of him, although it would be delightful to have both. aye, and players completely change their style as they get older - young mobile shearer skinning defenders and scoring long range goals and old shearer playing with his back to goal, using his elbows, laying it off for others and relying on opportunistic shots. Anelka at Arsenal was a very raw player, crap touch but shit loads of pace, dodgy finishing but quick enough instincts to be effective anyway, he was essentially quite similar to the 18 year old michael owen in that he was a goalscorer and nothing else. These days Anelka is a second-striker, a number 10 who works hard for the team, dropping deep to collect the ball and moving out wide, holding the ball and creating for others. He still gets a decent amount of goals but that's not his primary function. Hopefully the same will be true for Martins, he's certainly young enough. As you've said, he has shown at times that his touch and movement can be exemplary. look at sheff utd when he took about 8 players on, using his immense strength and technique to keep them at bay, or his through ball for Butt at WHL, or at Bolton when he was dragging their central defenders all over the place. His problem is that he's only shown this sporadically and at other times his movement, vision and touch is crap. He's came from a league where holding your position, being disciplined and measured is more important than making runs and passing quickly, and even in the time he's been at the club he has improved significantly. i also think his confidence is another issue, a young foreigner who has only been on the fringes of the first-team elsewhere is now held up as the talisman for 52,000 fans, our only attacking hope and the heir to shearer and the only help he's had comes from a man who has the inspirational qualities of a slug. A young Anelka had no touch!? Wenger said of the afformentioned "no touch" Anelka that he thought he could be the best striker in the world. He came through the French academy a poor lad from the bad side of Paris......In a head to head he shits all over Martins always will. Martins will NEVER be as good as Anelka. Just hasn't got the 'X' factor. You could see Anelka had another gear when Arsenal went to the Reebok this year. I fully expect Martins to develop and he is well able to get goals, but he will never be imo as good as an Anelka or Henry or Drogba. Yes, the young Anelka was very, very raw and his touch was pretty poor. just like michael owen, who went on to win european footballer of the year. or drogba, whose technique is still relatively crap. not really up for debate imo so we'll have to agree to disagree. Are we talking abou the same Anelka who was at Real at the age of 20 who cost 23m? Doesn't really mean much, was Viana worth £8.5m? We're talking Real here.

I said it was "obvious" You cannot surely tell me Obafemi Martins doesn't have similar potential (albeit at a couple of years older), though? At times he looks fantastic on the ball, which shows that he does have the capabilities to have a regularly top-notch first-touch and also at times he can produce a fairly nifty pass/lay-off. This would also suggest to me a player who is not entirely lacking the basics! It's also what frustrates me so much about him. He clearly has all the required attributes/capabilities to excel in most aspects of the modern game, but it's just a matter of getting him to produce them on a regular basis. I know it might never happen, but it's certainly not beyond him. You're undoutably correct in saying that Anelka is currently the more well-rounded player and that he has pedigree to back him up, but as others have pointed out Martins has years on him age-wise (although that's probably debatable!) and hasn't shown the attitude problems that Nic showed during his more formative years. At this current point in time I'm fairly happy that we've got the Little Nigerian ahead of him, although it would be delightful to have both. aye, and players completely change their style as they get older - young mobile shearer skinning defenders and scoring long range goals and old shearer playing with his back to goal, using his elbows, laying it off for others and relying on opportunistic shots. Anelka at Arsenal was a very raw player, crap touch but shit loads of pace, dodgy finishing but quick enough instincts to be effective anyway, he was essentially quite similar to the 18 year old michael owen in that he was a goalscorer and nothing else. These days Anelka is a second-striker, a number 10 who works hard for the team, dropping deep to collect the ball and moving out wide, holding the ball and creating for others. He still gets a decent amount of goals but that's not his primary function. Hopefully the same will be true for Martins, he's certainly young enough. As you've said, he has shown at times that his touch and movement can be exemplary. look at sheff utd when he took about 8 players on, using his immense strength and technique to keep them at bay, or his through ball for Butt at WHL, or at Bolton when he was dragging their central defenders all over the place. His problem is that he's only shown this sporadically and at other times his movement, vision and touch is crap. He's came from a league where holding your position, being disciplined and measured is more important than making runs and passing quickly, and even in the time he's been at the club he has improved significantly. i also think his confidence is another issue, a young foreigner who has only been on the fringes of the first-team elsewhere is now held up as the talisman for 52,000 fans, our only attacking hope and the heir to shearer and the only help he's had comes from a man who has the inspirational qualities of a slug. A young Anelka had no touch!? Wenger said of the afformentioned "no touch" Anelka that he thought he could be the best striker in the world. He came through the French academy a poor lad from the bad side of Paris......In a head to head he shits all over Martins always will. Martins will NEVER be as good as Anelka. Just hasn't got the 'X' factor. You could see Anelka had another gear when Arsenal went to the Reebok this year. I fully expect Martins to develop and he is well able to get goals, but he will never be imo as good as an Anelka or Henry or Drogba. Yes, the young Anelka was very, very raw and his touch was pretty poor. just like michael owen, who went on to win european footballer of the year. or drogba, whose technique is still relatively crap. not really up for debate imo so we'll have to agree to disagree. Are we talking abou the same Anelka who was at Real at the age of 20 who cost 23m?

I said it was "obvious" You cannot surely tell me Obafemi Martins doesn't have similar potential (albeit at a couple of years older), though? At times he looks fantastic on the ball, which shows that he does have the capabilities to have a regularly top-notch first-touch and also at times he can produce a fairly nifty pass/lay-off. This would also suggest to me a player who is not entirely lacking the basics! It's also what frustrates me so much about him. He clearly has all the required attributes/capabilities to excel in most aspects of the modern game, but it's just a matter of getting him to produce them on a regular basis. I know it might never happen, but it's certainly not beyond him. You're undoutably correct in saying that Anelka is currently the more well-rounded player and that he has pedigree to back him up, but as others have pointed out Martins has years on him age-wise (although that's probably debatable!) and hasn't shown the attitude problems that Nic showed during his more formative years. At this current point in time I'm fairly happy that we've got the Little Nigerian ahead of him, although it would be delightful to have both. aye, and players completely change their style as they get older - young mobile shearer skinning defenders and scoring long range goals and old shearer playing with his back to goal, using his elbows, laying it off for others and relying on opportunistic shots. Anelka at Arsenal was a very raw player, crap touch but shit loads of pace, dodgy finishing but quick enough instincts to be effective anyway, he was essentially quite similar to the 18 year old michael owen in that he was a goalscorer and nothing else. These days Anelka is a second-striker, a number 10 who works hard for the team, dropping deep to collect the ball and moving out wide, holding the ball and creating for others. He still gets a decent amount of goals but that's not his primary function. Hopefully the same will be true for Martins, he's certainly young enough. As you've said, he has shown at times that his touch and movement can be exemplary. look at sheff utd when he took about 8 players on, using his immense strength and technique to keep them at bay, or his through ball for Butt at WHL, or at Bolton when he was dragging their central defenders all over the place. His problem is that he's only shown this sporadically and at other times his movement, vision and touch is crap. He's came from a league where holding your position, being disciplined and measured is more important than making runs and passing quickly, and even in the time he's been at the club he has improved significantly. i also think his confidence is another issue, a young foreigner who has only been on the fringes of the first-team elsewhere is now held up as the talisman for 52,000 fans, our only attacking hope and the heir to shearer and the only help he's had comes from a man who has the inspirational qualities of a slug. A young Anelka had no touch!? Wenger said of the afformentioned "no touch" Anelka that he thought he could be the best striker in the world. He came through the French academy a poor lad from the bad side of Paris......In a head to head he shits all over Martins always will. Martins will NEVER be as good as Anelka. Just hasn't got the 'X' factor. You could see Anelka had another gear when Arsenal went to the Reebok this year. I fully expect Martins to develop and he is well able to get goals, but he will never be imo as good as an Anelka or Henry or Drogba. Think you overrate Anelka a little. He is a good player but can't really be mentioned in the same sentence as Henry or Drogba. Would you say Bellamy was as good as Anelka because he was still very raw when we signed him. I think Bellers is more instinctive than Nicolas, but not as good a finisher. His fiery Welsh temprament is priceless.

Really?

I said it was "obvious" You cannot surely tell me Obafemi Martins doesn't have similar potential (albeit at a couple of years older), though? At times he looks fantastic on the ball, which shows that he does have the capabilities to have a regularly top-notch first-touch and also at times he can produce a fairly nifty pass/lay-off. This would also suggest to me a player who is not entirely lacking the basics! It's also what frustrates me so much about him. He clearly has all the required attributes/capabilities to excel in most aspects of the modern game, but it's just a matter of getting him to produce them on a regular basis. I know it might never happen, but it's certainly not beyond him. You're undoutably correct in saying that Anelka is currently the more well-rounded player and that he has pedigree to back him up, but as others have pointed out Martins has years on him age-wise (although that's probably debatable!) and hasn't shown the attitude problems that Nic showed during his more formative years. At this current point in time I'm fairly happy that we've got the Little Nigerian ahead of him, although it would be delightful to have both. aye, and players completely change their style as they get older - young mobile shearer skinning defenders and scoring long range goals and old shearer playing with his back to goal, using his elbows, laying it off for others and relying on opportunistic shots. Anelka at Arsenal was a very raw player, crap touch but shit loads of pace, dodgy finishing but quick enough instincts to be effective anyway, he was essentially quite similar to the 18 year old michael owen in that he was a goalscorer and nothing else. These days Anelka is a second-striker, a number 10 who works hard for the team, dropping deep to collect the ball and moving out wide, holding the ball and creating for others. He still gets a decent amount of goals but that's not his primary function. Hopefully the same will be true for Martins, he's certainly young enough. As you've said, he has shown at times that his touch and movement can be exemplary. look at sheff utd when he took about 8 players on, using his immense strength and technique to keep them at bay, or his through ball for Butt at WHL, or at Bolton when he was dragging their central defenders all over the place. His problem is that he's only shown this sporadically and at other times his movement, vision and touch is crap. He's came from a league where holding your position, being disciplined and measured is more important than making runs and passing quickly, and even in the time he's been at the club he has improved significantly. i also think his confidence is another issue, a young foreigner who has only been on the fringes of the first-team elsewhere is now held up as the talisman for 52,000 fans, our only attacking hope and the heir to shearer and the only help he's had comes from a man who has the inspirational qualities of a slug. A young Anelka had no touch!? Wenger said of the afformentioned "no touch" Anelka that he thought he could be the best striker in the world. He came through the French academy a poor lad from the bad side of Paris......In a head to head he shits all over Martins always will. Martins will NEVER be as good as Anelka. Just hasn't got the 'X' factor. You could see Anelka had another gear when Arsenal went to the Reebok this year. I fully expect Martins to develop and he is well able to get goals, but he will never be imo as good as an Anelka or Henry or Drogba.

Putting the defence aside for a minute, enough has been said and even FS has awknowledged it will be strengthened and I think it will. 1. Roeder sacking....No brainer this has to happen or the club will remain in mid-table limbo. 2. The acquisiton of a true creative attaking midfielder to replace either Emre or Dyer (I don't think we can afford to keep all three). A player with vision and creativity who also gets into the box. Someone who can get 12 assists a season and score 8/10 goals. A real playmaker and hub of the midfield. A thinker who can dominate - understand tempo and keep postitive posession. 3. The sale of either Owen or Martins and the acquisition of a bigger striker who the dwarfs (whichever one we keep) can play off. I would go for an Anelka type and at a push some fat Australian bloke.

Bumpaluna. Probably good to tag on the expert opinion of Richard Slack a football finance expert pt2 Chronicle interview. How much are the players' wages? The interim report states that wages and salaries increased by 1% from £26.8m to £27m. Mr Slack said: "A general rule is that clubs don't like to spend more than 50% of their revenue on wages. "The current amount is just under 60% and if you were to take out of the equation the amount of compensation they are receiving for Michael Owen's injury, it would be more like 66%. "So, can the club afford new signings without getting rid of existing players? You would have to look at where the extra money was going to come from. The club are probably relatively close to their buffer in terms of the amount they want to spend on wages."

Case closed.

Janitor,\ What a ridiculous example. A lithe and gifted olive munching Ronaldo is hardly lacking the basics.

You can't coach a first touch or vision into a player.

It does strike me that Anelka's biggest critics know very little about him.

Aye, of course he is. Didn't you say Ryan Babel was better than Martins too? Hows he doing this season? I'd have Ian Wright over Luther Blisset....... I'd have Messi over Ronaldo..... I'd have Jolie over a desk... I've had Parky over a desk....

Aye, of course he is. Didn't you say Ryan Babel was better than Martins too? Hows he doing this season? I'd have Ian Wright over Luther Blisset....... I'd have Messi over Ronaldo..... I'd have Jolie over a desk...

Aye, of course he is. Didn't you say Ryan Babel was better than Martins too? Hows he doing this season? I'd have Ian Wright over Luther Blisset.......

Some very good points.

he's not. yes he is Indeed. Hes lazy and sulky because the tabloids say he is, as well as everyone else. His face shows it too, rarely smiles and has that arrogant nose. Of course, his performances suggest hes the opposite, but they obviously count for nothing. ....yeah he's such a lazy moany prick he has been brought back into the French squad. Anelka is 10 times the player Martin will EVER be.

You think Martins will stay for more than 2 seasons? Even if you think he will move in the next 2 years - whos going to be worth more? Yeah maybe anelka is a better team player but we hardly have world class players around him, but if you think Butt, Parker etc would have scored more goals with anelka in the team your clueless We're already £10m down on the deal. If we re-coup that (and I think we will) that's fine. But it worries me that people are talking about selling Martins at a huge profit and stuff already. Time will tell. This thread is just a timely reminder that Roeder hasn't really thought through the team building aspect of purchasing Martins...With Owen waiting in the wings, I would have thought we would have bought a different type of striker.

Taking Owen into consideration we've bought the wrong striker. I'm assuming that means you think them as a pair would not work? Even though we have not seen them play together? Just like an owen anelka partnership may not have worked, while i feel martins link up play is bad he is still young and to be on his own or with the very slow sibbers I don't feel it is right to be making these big leaps in judgement till we see them both play together till say xmas (that's if we hang on to both of them) I'm guessing Shola and Owen will be a better partnership.