Parky

And because we play like Barcelona we should keep Roeder the assumption here is that roeder isn't intending on playing crap football forever, that he'll improve as we go on and get some consistency; whereas it's allardyces stock in trade and the secret to his success.... can allardyce change? i doubt it Have you seen much of Bolton at all? It is a myth that they play awful football, they don't and haven't done for a while now. Yes they can be very direct and don't mind mixing it up, but they are no Wimbledon or even Watford for that matter, they are similar in style to Liverpool and Chelsea. Anyhow stuff performances, give me results over eye candy all day long. Spot on.

People don't want to hear that.

God give me strength. How do you come to the conclusion that I believe everything Managers say? Because I pointed out that Mourinho didnt actually want Duff to leave when some idiot claimed we only sign players nobody wants (basically)? I havent given up on the thread topic, I have followed it around every twist and turn, unlike some, who've never grasped it from start to finish. Allardyce is not better than Roeder, if he was that good, his best season would not be below an average Manager who was picking up Souness' mess, as much as you want to believe its true. Look at Moyes at Everton, he may have flirted with relegation a few times, but he's had them finish in the top 4 and they're not far away again. He hasnt been blessed with the same duration as Allardyce either. Allardyce is another mediocre Manager. If he's that fuckin good explain to me how come a shit Manager like Roeder can finish above him with the problems he inherited? Could I see Roeder finishing above Wenger? Ferguson? Benitez? Mourinho? Absolutely not, Allardyce, no problem. That's more like it.

i said somewhere earlier in all this that if allardyce were coming in with the remit of operating on a budget and looking to bring in cheaper players and get the best out of what we have then fair enough, i agree however the noise coming out of the club is that they'll spend money in the window to "strengthen the squad" which i read as spending significantly...i don't see an argument for giving allardyce cash ahead of roeder... How often has he wasted money when he has got it? roeder had spent 15m and not wasted any, what's the argument for giving allardyce the cash ahead of roeder answer my question i'll answer yours Because Allardyce actually brings in players, doesn't waste money (not saying Roeder does) and is an all round better manager. fair enough, that's your point of view as for your question the only money i know he's had is for anelka and i'd now say it has been and better than anything roeder has spent, arguably worse value given the fact he's 28 and has a pathcy history and temperament He has helped transform them into a team that are likely to qualify for Europe. Worth every penny. He has spent fairly big (for Bolton) on Diouf aswell who is a very good striker and has done a good job there. These players do have poor history with attitude but this is another plus point for Allardyce in he knows how to handle this and get the best out of the players. Roeder can't even handle a child like Zoggy.

i said somewhere earlier in all this that if allardyce were coming in with the remit of operating on a budget and looking to bring in cheaper players and get the best out of what we have then fair enough, i agree however the noise coming out of the club is that they'll spend money in the window to "strengthen the squad" which i read as spending significantly...i don't see an argument for giving allardyce cash ahead of roeder... How often has he wasted money when he has got it? roeder had spent 15m and not wasted any, what's the argument for giving allardyce the cash ahead of roeder answer my question i'll answer yours Because Allardyce actually brings in players, doesn't waste money (not saying Roeder does) and is an all round better manager. fair enough, that's your point of view as for your question the only money i know he's had is for anelka and i'd now say it has been and better than anything roeder has spent, arguably worse value given the fact he's 28 and has a pathcy history and temperament You clearly don't know the first thing about Anelka.

Every spud site I troll moan endlessly about him. blueyes.gif

personally i think the way he's operating in the transfer market is to the benefit of the club as a whole - no manager has a 100% success record in transfers do they? so far martins has been very good, sib has exceeded expectations and duff has been a disappointment (but is hardly to be written off at age 27) rossi should have been used more (but then he was tied for quite a few games), bernard was/is a joke and gooch has not been as good as we'd hoped all in all the 6 players he's brought in haven't damaged us too much have they? he hasn't panic bought a 9.5m player yet has he? i have to believe that roeder, and the club, have learned from their mistakes to this point and will take steps to rectify them this summer.... the alternative as i see it is another season of a new manager coming in and "assessing" the players we all know need to leave before then not being given the chance to change things round if roeder doesn't act this summer then he's pulling the trigger on himself, simple as that.... Jesus. You WANT to let him bring more players like f****** Gooch into the club?? you TRUST a man who automatically plays Carr??? Roeder has been woeful, he'll learn f*** all because he thinks he was right, and he'll drag us down. I'm more worried that he continually picks Parker. You won't leave it will you. Well, that's because I am REALLY worried about it. I'd select Carr at fullback ahead of Parker in midfield, for example. I'd select Ameobi up front as a striker ahead of Parker in midfield as another example. Both of these players are slated but both do better at their role than Parker does at his. In my opinion Parker has a negative impact on the entire team play and it really pisses me off that Roeder picks him every time he's fit. The thought he may even want to build a team around such a s*** player is mind numbing. I don't think Roeder is very good, but I don't think "just anybody" would do a better job and the circumstances have to be taken into account. As I've said before, a so-called "top" manager will expect and demand a certain level of financial backing in the transfer market, backing that the present Board has always given imo, just looking at the money spent will tell you that. However, it could well be that sufficient cash is just not there following the Souness debacle, I suspect it is going to take another a couple of years to get over the money wasted by that clown on the likes of Parker, Emre, Boumsong, Luque etc. We need to consolidate first ( I think we're doing that now ) and then show we are moving forward next season so that when the financial clout is there the club can attract a better quality manager at that time. After saying that, if the right level of cash is there right now I'd get rid of Roeder and bring a better man in. Who that is, I don't know, but I don't like Allardyce, that's for sure. He's hyped up in the same way O'Neill is hyped, both of whom have a track record no better than Souness. Neither would be the right man imo. Parker's main failing is his distribution and the fact that GR seems to have burdened him/talked him into/been talked into this idea that he can get forward in some kind of AM role with def duties. IMO this is the main confusion for Parker because he lacks the basic qualities (doesn't read the game well either) to know when to break the leash. I also have a theory that the Parker at Charlton was more confident and hence 'looser' as a player a lot of which he lost during his time at Chelsea (Morinho is notorioulsy keen to keep his CM frugal and not risk takers in possession). So esentially what Parker has done is over exentuate his 'running around and tackling' mainly because he has no real vision of his role (or core position) or is not suited to the role (ultimately GR's fault). I cringe at his backpassing and the resultant hoofing from a CD at least 10 times a game ending in lost posession. But I will add correctly positioned with limited instructions there is still some hope for Parker, but maybe he isn't really a proper DM...Football has moved on. This is now a key position as Alonso, Makalele and Pirlo have shown...Ultimately I agree we need a new DM at some point but atm it isn't a priority. A team like Chelsea and especially under M will burn out players much faster, it is well known that 'M' always keeps the pressure on and scrutinises performances to the enth degree...I think we have seen that Duff has slowly returened to some kind of form and will be better next year. We are rebuilding (but I also believe money is there and can be found if we really need it and this has nothing to do with accounts or the stock market), people forget a club like ours has many financial instruments to raise money at short notice. But in general I think we are in a consolidation period. Allardyce yes atm I'd prefer him to Roeder, but yes there are many other who are BETTER.

I will always disagree with this. We have the ability to get most top line managers but not the will. I think the point he's trying to make is Shepherd's list will more than likely consist of British managers only. That might already have changed.

personally i think the way he's operating in the transfer market is to the benefit of the club as a whole - no manager has a 100% success record in transfers do they? so far martins has been very good, sib has exceeded expectations and duff has been a disappointment (but is hardly to be written off at age 27) rossi should have been used more (but then he was tied for quite a few games), bernard was/is a joke and gooch has not been as good as we'd hoped all in all the 6 players he's brought in haven't damaged us too much have they? he hasn't panic bought a 9.5m player yet has he? i have to believe that roeder, and the club, have learned from their mistakes to this point and will take steps to rectify them this summer.... the alternative as i see it is another season of a new manager coming in and "assessing" the players we all know need to leave before then not being given the chance to change things round if roeder doesn't act this summer then he's pulling the trigger on himself, simple as that.... Jesus. You WANT to let him bring more players like f****** Gooch into the club?? you TRUST a man who automatically plays Carr??? Roeder has been woeful, he'll learn f*** all because he thinks he was right, and he'll drag us down. I'm more worried that he continually picks Parker. You won't leave it will you.

I will always disagree with this. We have the ability to get most top line managers but not the will.

How has he put his job on the line...By not strengthening the defence over two transfer windows?

personally i think the way he's operating in the transfer market is to the benefit of the club as a whole - no manager has a 100% success record in transfers do they? so far martins has been very good, sib has exceeded expectations and duff has been a disappointment (but is hardly to be written off at age 27) rossi should have been used more (but then he was tied for quite a few games), bernard was/is a joke and gooch has not been as good as we'd hoped all in all the 6 players he's brought in haven't damaged us too much have they? he hasn't panic bought a 9.5m player yet has he? i have to believe that roeder, and the club, have learned from their mistakes to this point and will take steps to rectify them this summer.... the alternative as i see it is another season of a new manager coming in and "assessing" the players we all know need to leave before then not being given the chance to change things round if roeder doesn't act this summer then he's pulling the trigger on himself, simple as that.... Don't forget his inspired decision to bring Srnicek back to the club. bdoing! it's all positive or negative spin eh? if you look on the positive side then he's spent 10m very well on a young, fit, fast, dangerous striker... he spent 5m on a winger who had won back to back titles with chel$ki and was regarded by most people very highly when he was at blackburn....plus there's nothing to suggest duff can't improve and recapture his form everyone else cost nothing or next to nothing but haven't had an impact on the team, simple as.... What is it in Roeder's background/managerial history that makes you want to give him a break?

personally i think the way he's operating in the transfer market is to the benefit of the club as a whole - no manager has a 100% success record in transfers do they? so far martins has been very good, sib has exceeded expectations and duff has been a disappointment (but is hardly to be written off at age 27) rossi should have been used more (but then he was tied for quite a few games), bernard was/is a joke and gooch has not been as good as we'd hoped all in all the 6 players he's brought in haven't damaged us too much have they? he hasn't panic bought a 9.5m player yet has he? i have to believe that roeder, and the club, have learned from their mistakes to this point and will take steps to rectify them this summer.... the alternative as i see it is another season of a new manager coming in and "assessing" the players we all know need to leave before then not being given the chance to change things round if roeder doesn't act this summer then he's pulling the trigger on himself, simple as that.... Sibierski has done better than people expected but thats only because people thought he would be the worst player we have ever signed. He still isn't good enough. The only reason Roeder hasn't signed am expensive panic buy player is because Fulham wouldn't release Zat Knight so close to the end of the transfer window. Aye. blueyes.gif

You're now telling me to re-read my own post and you are telling me what I've said mackems.gif I give in

Jol should be lower surely.

ha ha you're making me laugh now 'cause i never said any of that at all!! what i said was "the fans won't like the guy from the off" and "if results go against him he'll retreat into his shell and fight with the press just like souness did" never said the fans would want him out at all just that we're "suspicious" of his loyalties, as i certainly am if you're gonna talk sh!te expect to get laughed at What makes you think the fans wont like him from the off? and you claim I talk s**** i honestly think people are suspicious of the type of football he plays at bolton (and i agree with you and others that our current quality is worse than bolton but that means nowt), everyone i know and have spoken to BAR NONE have basically said "f@ck that" when the prospect is raised of allardyce as NUFC manager and it's what i say too, i don't like the guy as a man or a football manager it's like that lad NE5 says about the board, same thing, we might have a bad one but clamouring for a slightly better one (in certain areas) might not be the best thing eh? comes back to the other post i made - if winning (a few more) matches is all you care about then allardyce is your man, and i thought i was missing the bigger picture It means everything tbh, which is why we are even having this discussion in the first place. Anyway, it seems you are pretty much alone on here claiming the majority of our fans will not like the idea of Allardyce as our new manager. Doesn't that tell you anything, being alone yet claiming to speak for a majority? firstly it's an internet forum pal, hardly reflective of general opinion is it? secondly my point is that because we're playing awful football right now under roeder how does that become an endorsement to sign a manager with a long history of playing awful football? even if it's better than we play right now it's still awful pal An internet forum will give a more unbiased opinion than "your mates down the pub". Its a large cross section of fans who often have different opinions and the fact the majority would go for Allardyce says a lot imo. i've always stated this is my perception of the situation, nothing more nothing less however this place is full of bairns who are clamouring for change for the sake of it the same w@nkers who were complaining about robson and saw him replaced with souness My argument doesn't hold, so people with a different opinion must be either bairns who don't know what they're on about or w@nkers who always complain.. touche, good point - comes across as a bit petulant that but i'll stand by my opinion that there's to much desire for change for the sake of it and that allardyce would not be a popular choice as manager (but perhaps not as unpopular as i seem to think) Fair enough! I can see where you're coming from too if you don't believe Allardyce is a good enough manager for us, but I think most people realise we can't realistically hope for anybody much better at this point in time.. Who would you consider replacing Roeder with? aha! the million dollar question hard to answer really without sounding like you're reading off of football manager or something isn't it? that lad from sevilla would be an obvious choice 'cause i believe he's leaving and has a commitment to playing good, attacking football and has built his success over time wherever he's been without massive finance... the fundamental problem we have, as a club, is that shepherd will not countenance a foreign manager anymore therefore we're stuck with british or irish, thus i do see why people are looking at allardyce 'cause of the english managers he's regarded highly by lots of people HONESTLY i'd say this - allow roeder the coming summer to get who he wants in, on the understanding that the players he buys are young, not crazy expensive, and not on mental wages (therefore we can move them if it all goes wrong) if there's no improvement and he proves himself to have blown it then it's time to change but i just can't see the benefit in change right now What have you seen from Roeder apart from half the team trying to leave that gives you such confidence?

Utter monkey poo. blueyes.gif

Are people seriously debating whether Sam is better than Glenda? mackems.gif

Come on lads educate him about the club and stop being such dicks.

Living in the past! Would you honestly rather a match-fixing cheating b****** team who shouldn't even be in the Champs League this year went through, rather than a team who happened to beat us to the title by virtue of getting more points in a season 10ish years ago? Absolutely. I despise them and I hope Milan go through and trounce whichever bunch of tossers get through the other semi. You call others sad and pathetic What, cos I don't want a club I dislike to win the European Cup? I know, unbelievable. IMO i think you should be supporting the english clubs Bollocks, if you want to support the English clubs, fine. Personally, I quite like Milan and have no affection whatsoever for Liverpool, Chelsea, Man Utd. or many of their arrogant fans. You're another one that gets the phone call and bets on Milan losing at half time right?

Congratulations Dave. He thinks we should spend big money on a left back rather than a forward. I think that is bollocks, and that is based on the fact that I have watched the team, as I have done for over 40 years, and can draw on this experience to give a view. And the problem with that is what exactly ? Aye a left back would have got us all 3 points against Chelsea on sunday Or would have opened up Arsenal the other week or Wigan away, maybe even the Charlton home game Fulham home, Bolton home, Sheff U home were all games crying out for a left back? No, we have very little going forward that eventually average sides score against us. A goal under the pressure that we have mounted in all of these games would have changed the game in our favour, either by putting daylight between us and the opposition and going 2 up or getting a goal when its been a stalemate. Our limited attacking options have been the problem all season. Its easier to blame the board for that though. I can give you 2 times more games where our defensive problems,especially the LB position has cost us dearly(AZ,Brimingam,Fulham(h),Bolton(H)This games where the most shocking when it comes to defensive problems).Also the constant rotation of players playing out of position at LB didnt help too much either. Yes in some of the games our lack of attacking power also contributed about our poor results. But when you look realisticly in the start of the new season we will have 2 new strikers(Owen and Ameobi).We will have 5 strikers+Dyer Imo our priority in the summer should be the defence.When i say priority i mean that we should spend around 70% of our budget in that area.On CB's and LB.Also we will need another CM,but i dont think we should be concentrating so much in buying a striker. Can you all tell me if we buy another striker where exactly he will play??? I want to hear NE5 answer if Owen and Martins are fit the whole season where exactly will this striker play? Dont answer me with something like Owen cant be fit for a whole season,please! I will say that Owen and Martins won't play together all season, yes. In fact, they might not play well together at all. No doubt this escapes you, as does the fact that most clubs have at least 3 good strikers, and we only have two. Through watching NUFC week in week out over this season, last season, the season before, and every season since 1965, and having seen what it takes to be a good team in the premiership [and not just in NUFC's case], in my opinion the biggest problem with the team is up front, keeping possession, and one thing you certainly do not do is blow a budget of a lot of money on a defender when you need forwards and/or strikers. The board slaters, the people who slate them whatever they do, would have a field day. If anything, if the club spent the bulk of its budget on a defender or two, and Owen is hurt again, it would be funny seeing the u-turns galore which would be everywhere. Or perhaps not. A quality left back and central defender would not make any significant difference to this team, but a quality striker and midfield player most certainly would. BTW, Bob Moncur, an ex Newcastle and Scotland captain [have you heard of him ?] agrees with me, or do you think he knows nothing about football, put against you kicking a ball around for a pub or whatever level you have played at.

Really don't know what all the fuss is about Benny Benitez....His Liverpool side are dreadful. blueyes.gif They don't really do anything but defend properly...And buying absolute no hopers like Pennent for that money. mackems.gif Chelsea will win cause Mour is the better tactician and they have Drogba. Lose in the final to ManU.

What are you the in-house architect?

Looks good. blueyes.gif