Andy

I certainly don't think we can come to the conclusion that Haidara's a better defender yet, but one terrible game doesn't mean much either way at this point. My own view on these two is that Haidara looks promising (does show some very good promise defensively) but is as yet still an unknown quantity overall. Santon on the other hand has played plenty and IMO he just isn't a good defender, he can still improve since he's only 22, but right now he's weak defensively. I'd love an explanation as to how he's poor defensively, as opposed to the oft-used argument of "he just isn't a good defender but I'm not really going to back that up with anything of substance". His positional sense, tackling and heading are usually fine to good. There's the occasional error in him but no more so than most other full-backs outside of the genuine top players - it's something that typically comes as a trade-off with the expectation that modern full-backs should play further up the pitch, and you see these errors every single week... I get the argument that he isn't left footed, but he's fine at leading into a tackle with his weaker foot and it's rare that he takes the wrong body shape as a result of being on the "wrong" side (something which often happens when full-backs play out of position); I also fully understand and agree with the argument that it affects his contribution in the attacking half of the pitch and that it makes us imbalanced slightly, but that would be massively aided if we actually had a left footed winger, and isn't reason enough to justify dropping him for our two left footed defenders who IMO aren't as good defensively at this moment in time. There are limitations to his game without question but I think they're massively over-inflated, especially in a defensive sense.

Depends how you define talent. Ben Arfa is better at controlling a football and dribbling than Bale is, and he's arguably a better passer of the ball. There's more to football than those aspects though, even though they're usually the ones that are considered criteria for having "talent". Bale is physically and mentally light-years ahead of Hatem and the footballing qualities he possesses are a lot more effective in the modern game than the qualities Ben Arfa possesses. As a modern footballer Bale is vastly more "talented" IMO and that's been reflected on the pitch consistently for several years now.

He isn't perfect but Santon's still our best left back like... Haidara doesn't look quite ready yet at this level, Yanga-M'Biwa has always looked uncomfortable at left back to me, and Dummett isn't as good as any of them at this moment in time IMO. We were spoiled by Enrique's quality, and on the right we're becoming spoiled by Debuchy. Santon's not as good as those two but he isn't a major issue; he'll be at fault for a few goals over the course of the season, but that's always going to be the case with most modern full-backs. He does need to sort his end product out when he gets forward like, that's by far his biggest deficiency, but at the same time his ability to carry the ball and push the opposition back is a decent attacking asset in its own right. He's really not as poor as some people make out.

"Possession" represents that percentage of time in possession of the ball. Passes are represented by the "passes" stat.

Haidara has potential but he isn't ready yet IMO. His defensive anticipation/positioning is a fair bit worse than Santon's at the moment - nearly lost us the match towards the end today by being 2 yards behind the defensive line and playing Rodriguez onside; Debuchy got him off the hook, but I've noticed similar in previous games as well... I think in time he'll be a better full-back than Santon, but he isn't there yet.

No

I think he's a decent full back. Gets caught out every now and then when he goes forward, but he isn't half as bad defensively as people make out

Laziness has nowt to do with it really - he chases down the ball, but that's about all. I could go on the pitch and do that for 90 minutes, no bother. The problem is how little he actually contributes from a footballing perspective. He doesn't hold the ball up, link the play, make effective runs, win headers, pass the ball well, have any capacity to beat a man, and so on... Worse still, he rarely even shoots these days... He's tremendously ineffective.

Playing areet, just lacking a bit confidence by the looks of it and could do with a goal to kick-start him again. Not worried.

It speaks volumes that Shola was shit but at this moment in time he's still light-years ahead of Cisse purely on the virtue that he can occasionally control a football or win a header. Bringing Cisse on is almost like accepting a voluntary red card, on this form he is genuinely one of the most ineffective, non-contributive footballers I've ever seen. He just runs around like a headless chicken; I'll never be able to get my head around the transformation he's made.

As I said in the match thread, there's a tendency to take extreme opinions with Ben Arfa because of his hype, and almost everything he does (good or bad) is over-analysed, but the truth is he lies somewhere in between on average. Even at his worst he's relatively tidy and he's effective purely due to his presence pushing back the opposition - he wasn't great today, for instance, but when he came on there was still a very visible swing in territory and he didn't lose possession too many times... Of course, you always have the chance of him doing something magic but you have to accept that he isn't Messi and it isn't going to happen every week, and sometimes he'll make poor decisions in trying to create that magic - he can often be infuriating but it's usually as a result of expectation... Rough with the smooth. If it was all smooth with him, he wouldn't be playing for us. As it is, at the moment, he's a very good option to have on the bench.

Some good, some bad today. We generally played quite well against a team who are around the same level as us... First half we were tactically well set-up, but again he seemingly failed to prepare the players for their response at the beginning of the second half - "more of the same" doesn't cut it at this level but it seems to be the message that he sends. Substitutions were a bit crap; Cisse is a complete waste of a change and Ben Arfa came on too late - I'd prefer him to be brought on to see out a lead like at Old Trafford, rather than when we're chasing a result - in the case of the latter he tries to do it all himself too often. Not too awful overall though, and at least it wasn't the complete no-show that some were expecting after such a good result last week.

Pretty obvious that Ben Arfa's introduction swung the game back around when they were on top. cp40 obsession with Ben Arfa, even when he plays 15-20 mins, is laughable obsession? hes totally over rated on here and dosent do enough of his best work for me. He is over-rated by some on here, you're right. On the contrary, he's rarely been "woeful" and wasn't today either. The truth lies somewhere in between both sets of opinions, you don't always need to take the extreme angle on things. On average, he's an effective player for worrying the opposition and pushing them back towards their own goal. At times he's a match winner, at other times he's limited by his decision making.

Pretty obvious that Ben Arfa's introduction swung the game back around when they were on top. ah aye, thats why we won...oh hang on. It's why we didn't lose Not sure what game you were watching if you couldn't see the pretty blatant swing in territory after the substitution.

Pretty obvious that Ben Arfa's introduction swung the game back around when they were on top.

Southampton have had more of the ball (in their own half) but 66% sounds inaccurate like. They barely touched it for large periods in the last 15 minutes of the half.

Would probably say Atletico or PSG. maybe Barca if you had to take one of them as they haven't been as dominant as previous years. Still a horror draw ahead for Arsenal The same Barcelona that is leading their league and will most probably have Messi back in february and also Neymar improving? Arsenal would be better suited to playing Barcelona than they would an incredibly compact and well-drilled Atlético team like. I'd fancy them to knick something off Barca, whereas Atlético would probably just pick them off.

There should be a rule than when that happens you let all 3 through and vote out some other shite. Aye because that wouldn't be harsh on the shit team who legitimately got through in another group. Had we finished 4th instead of 5th the season before last we would have all been screaming blue murder that we lost our Champions League place to Chelsea, why wish it on another? Yeah, fuck Sewelly and his entirely serious, debate-worthy suggestions. Fuck you Sewelly.

3 decisions cost us. Colo starting, Obertan coming on, Anita being left on the bench? Pathetic if he tries to blame Webb. Aye the ref had a mare, but he wasn't the reason we were gash in every area of the pitch.

Shouldn't even be playing for the reserves. How the fuck Pardew thought bringing him on was the right move is beyond me.

Same line-up as the last four matches, so why be worried? He's a nice option to have from the bench, but Hatem hasn't exactly been our saviour lately.

Not at all, just a bit daft. Shouldn't have sat back, made hard work of it, but much better teams do the exact same thing weekly. I never really felt like we were going to throw it away, even when we had that slight panic towards the end.

Was offside. Wasn't like. Not if you go off the lines on the pitch instead of the camera angle; the defender's trailing leg was clearly playing him on.

This gets mentioned every transfer window! It does, but at the moment I feel he isn't as valuable to Pardew as he has been previously. We'll see I guess.

I have a feeling we'll sell Hatem in January and replace him with a striker. He clearly doesn't fit Pardew's definition of a wide-man (I do agree with him to an extent that in the modern game work-ethic is a big part of success in that position of the pitch, ability alone doesn't really cut it anymore due to the more expansive nature of the full-back role) and he's woefully ineffective in an attacking sense in any position where work-rate is deemed less important... It might not be a widely popular opinion but I think we've looked more coherent as a team when he hasn't played; on his day he's a brilliant individual and I'd love to see him use his talent more effectively and more consistently, but the odd brilliant individual display doesn't counteract the fact that, for whatever reason (be it as a result of his own flaws or a lack of understanding with his teammates), we don't look half as fluid or compact with him on the pitch. If Pardew can't get the best out of him - and I don't think he can - we might as well cash-in while his stock is still high and bring in someone more suited to our preferred system.