sicsfingeredmong

You forgot to mention that Birmingham and Wigan lost and gained no points last night ! Fck me man. Because they were playing other teams in the bottom half. You happy with 4th from bottom? For this season? Yes. Next? No. This shows how far we have fallen - all of you who said "give Souness more time, give Roeder time, ALlardyce will fix us" should be f****** ashamed of yourselves. We should be railing against being in the bottom 5 or 6 (a genuine threat to us now), we should be making SJP not just a bad place to come to for away teams, but a place where players KNOW they have to play well for us. Anyone who accepts s**** like Geremi, Smith, Ameobi, Rozenhal, and even TRIES to make excuses for them should bow their heads in abject shame. Agree & disagree with you in equal measure. It's why some supporters, and the following thoughts were voiced on this forum, were stunned amidst the flacid crowd response in the wake of Souness' first season. A season of underwhelming performances were lost amidst the result of the day, that being a gutsy season closing effort against Chelsea. Such incompetance, both from a team & management standpoint, over the course of a season wouldn't stand-up at Anfield for example. Houllier was virtually shouted out of the job, the board listened to it's supporter base who became frustrated at the brand of football Houllier's team was dishing up at the time - despite the Cups and his penultimate CL finish which imo was greatly influenced by injuries to our key players down the stretch ie. Bellamy and Woodgate, our defensive rock & our creative foil around the box. I still think if the SJP terraces had rallied against Souness enmasse, as was the case re: Houllier/Liverpool, after the already mentioned season closer against Chelsea the board - ie. The Halls - would've swiftly pulled the trigger in response and that would've would've stopped the cancerous Souness regime dead in it's tracks. As for supporters 'hanging their heads in shame' for accepting s**** like Geremi etc etc. It's my opinion that Geremi would still make a better RW option than Milner. The likes of Cacapa & Rozenhal, i wanted to see how they'd fare beyond the first month of the campaign where they're were blessed with having to face some lightweight attacking frontlines during the opening stages of their premiership careers - both have failed. Don't peddle this 'don't try to make excuses for them' because i'll rewind the clock a bit. Up until Parker pulled the fingered salute at home you spent the best part of a year defending Parker's performance level under successive managers, especially during Roeder's tenureship where at one stage you suggested playing him in exactly the same role - positionally wise - as he was utilised in Souness's so called 442, and Souness' so-called 442 resembled a narrow & unbalanced 4-1-3-2 which because of it's the team's inability to laterally stretch the opposition's defensive ranks with some left-to-right sideline passing/possession play across the midfield line only served the purpose of having the team play out of it's own half & defending for their lives for the best part of 90 minutes. And yet despite the ramifications of such a positional change, as opposed to Roeder's misguided faith in utilizing him in a balanced offensive & defensive 442 central midfielder in the Rob Lee mould - a role which he clearly wasn't up to, you made that call. At the time you were more than happy to see the midfield formation & balance compromised in order to get the best out of a player who in your exact words was s***. Take a leaf out of your own book mate.

An attacking team mindset, where we'll look to dominate sides below us on the table as opposed to slogging it out with them as seen under Allarydce, should see pick up enough points to avoid the drop. The points spread has pretty much been shared amongst the top 4 or 5, so there's very little in the way of 'top-to-bottom' balance in the league this season hence the gap between the CL contenders and the also-rans. This lack of balance within the league has been our saving grace this season.

Wise & Deschamps : two players who out on the pitch were able to make the most out of their respective limitations ability-wise as footballers, yet looking at their managerial records they've shown alot of promise in the infancy stages of their careers. Seems to be the general rule of thumb: technically average players = pretty decent staff in the backroom. Although there are always exceptions ie. Clueless' perennial shadow & partner in crime, Dean Saunders.

It wasn't that long ago - around the time of the last WC i think - when many members on this forum dismissed Adebayor as being 'a glorified version of Ameobi'.

And this is the ultimate crime for a 6ft+ centreforward, above the other attributes mentioned. He punches well below his listed height, doesn't attack crosses into the box. Get Rid.

Irrelevant, and the most stupid comment i've read on this forum.

Carrick is central to United's sweeping ball movement - whether it's launching a counterattack, or switching play to the outside channels when he joins the midfield line when they're pressing forward. Rooney & Ronaldo grab the headlines and deservedly so, but Carrick is their pivotal 'passing playmaker' even though he's a defensive-minded midfielder by trade. Outstanding player and imo there's no chance Man United will let him go, at least until he's well into his twighlight years ala Roy Keane - fitness permitting of course.

Souness shouldn't have tried tapping up both Anelka and Boa Morte leading into that particular transfer window, especially Anelka who was then plying his trade at one of Galatasary's - ala Souness' former rival - hated rivals. Souness, being a despised figure in Fenerbache's circle - ie. a lunatic who planted a Galatasary flag on Fenerbache's pitch - that he is, 'tapping up' one of it's star players in Anelka backfired on him when Fenerbache's board issued a 'hands-off' warning but then again the clueless idiot didn't consider the parameters in play - ie. his negative link to Fenerbache - before trying to unsettle the player in question. I'd say this, that is the Souness/Fener parameter, cost us any chance of signing Anelka..... wrong time/wrong manager pissing off the wrong club. Afterall they did end up offloading him to Bolton. If Souness wanted strikers in early, to work with them over the course of the pre-season, he shouldn't have turned his attentions - and blown 10m of transfer kitty - to signing Parker & Emre immediately after. Not only did he miss out on a 'bedding-in period' with both players - ie. Owen and Luque - but as we all know transfer fees rise towards the end of the window as selling clubs can hold a smoking gun at the heads of desperate buying clubs, and with a goal tally of 0 goals in the first month of the premiership that's exactly what we were and we payed over the odds as a result, for both Luque and Owen that is. Souness' mismanagement of the squad, in his failing to correctly prioritise his initial 10m which was subsequently thrown towards the Parker & Emre signings, is to blame............. not the 35m that was handed to him to supposedly spice up the team a bit. I've never seen a manager more 'financially backed' in such a short space of time as Souness was by Shepherd.

Souness is a liar by making the inference that Owen was 'Shepherd's Buy'. I recall Souness' story at the press conference when Owen was unveiled, and this is in relation to how the club targetted him. Basically he walked into Shepherd's office, they discussed striking options, and Souness passed a note across the table. Michael Owen's name was written on that piece of paper - i even remember Souness statement, concerning Shepherd's reaction, with words to the effect of "i can't repeat in public what the chairman said"

Agreed, he'll provide some much needed aerial presence, or more accurately some support for Faye. And he's a 'ball-playing' centrehalf as well, basically he's a throwback - and i mean this in a complimentary way - to a former defensive rock of Keegans....... Phillippe Albert. Faye and Van Buyten appeals as a physically imposing centre-half partnership................ but i have a feeling Keegan's first signing could well be Steve Black.

And for a minute there, I was beginning to feel ever so slightly empathetic with the man. But then he had to go and say that... Do you not think he was right though? It wasnt if he bunged Torino, Blackburn & Southampton above us. Oh I'm not sure I could actually be arsed to argue the point, tbh...mainly because deep down I think I realise he's right. Still hurts like f*** to have that reality rubbed in your face though. Especially at a time like this. It wasn't good TV watching the club you support getting talked down. Schadenfreude is as much a part of the sport as free kicks and dodgy penalties though. Talking of Schadenfreude, Souey did say " people who are professional agitators on the outside of the club, ex-employees of the club and journalists, seem to take great pleasure in causing the club a problem" Aye, I didn't see the interview myself, but when I read that on here I instantly thought how deeply ironic that statement was...having just stuck the boot in himself. The t***. i think souness talks alot of sense there and people cant get hung up on the fact he has called these clubs bigger than our's beacause in the big picture they are! I think its probly true about shepherd dabbling to much in the team and maybe if souness had his way we would have done alot better under him. He is by no means an awful manager and most of the team seemed to like him bar robert and bellamy, who are universally seen as selfish pricks so u cant say he lost the dressing room. HE was unfairly picked on from day 1 because he wasnt the fans choice, and this will keep on happening untill the croud gets behind the team (prooved once again in the alladyce debacle.) Maybe bringing back keegan with shearer would work because at least it would get universal backing. Obviously things went wrong for souness in the end and SA but can people really say it was all their fault when there is blatent problems behind the scenes at our club, which only are starting to sort themselves out now. Point 1: Efforts against Villa - and the effort level was lost amidst the fisticuffs display put on by Dyer & Bowyer - Wigan Reserves and countless others suggest that morale was low despite the influence of the so-called club cancers' being removed from the 1st team picture and with it their so-called 'negative influence' having being effectively removed from the dressing room. Point 2 (underlined): Bollocks, when he started making football based decisions - ie. substituting our best player against Charlton, when the game was there to be won..... and if witness accounts are to be believed when he then pursued and then physically assaulted the player in question at the training ground when the same player attempted to walk away from a further confrontation - in order to appease his ego was the point in time that the worm had come around full circle, especially for those who expressed reservations about his man-management record at the time of his appointment. Getting on his back from Day 1 - that's complete bollocks. Two weeks of 'conservative support' was more than he was entitled to, but this non-support - akin to to that experienced by Allardyce at the end stages of his short reign - which you speak of didn't echoe through the terraces as you choose to believe. Witness the Chelsea home game which closed the curtains on our worst campaign in the top-filght in over a decade - the crowd reaction after that game was pretty bloody conservative given Souness' guidance of the team through whole season. If that was Anfield the would have been a collective voice calling for his head.

This incompetant was backed to the tune of nearly 50m over two transfer windows in a team revamp, and had the chairman's support when Robert and Bellamy - two players who played their part in transforming the team post 01 - had to go because both irrepairably damaged his ego. Yet the same Scottish prick has been in this caper for nearly a generation - not five minutes if i'm to borrow the useless shithead's quote, yet he removed - with the chairman's backing mind you - two of our most influential players for reasons unrelated to football, because they inflicted dents upon his fragile yet sizeable ego. It appeared that in exchange for exclusives/interviews that Souness had Oliver's unwavering support right up to the Wigan game, despite that result being on the cards for quite for some time in accordance to the football & negative team mindset on display. Oliver's a shitstirrer, no doubt about that...... but Souness milks the media machine for what it's worth as well, and in relation to Souness' quip about journos', and i assume he's referring to a certain figure in the local press, not helping the club it's takes two to tango. Souness and Oliver's relationship, as hinted above, was a symbiotic one and for a time it was beneficial to both parties so for Souness to cry foul in this specific instance stinks of sour grapes. He has no f'''king right to claim victims' status here imo, but then again i wouldn't expect less from somebody - especially firing off the opening salvo here - who once substituted the team's best player out on the park for reasons unpertaining to football. This is Souness' specialty: launching salvos & pressing peoples' buttons whilst playing the victims' card. TBH i keenly await Shepherd's aimed response at the gutless prick.

I'd be delighted if Keegan returned, and it has nothing to do with any reasons pertaining to nostalgia. He knows what the essential needs are given the 'end to end nature' of English football ie. width and movement. Many might say he was 'past it' after he left us, but the fact remains he had both Fulham and Man City punching above their weight, and playing good football as well.

Some of us branded Mort as being a clever, media savy guy and well spoken to boot - until there was substance to back up the media/PR talk. Others love Ashley because he rolls his way to matches draped in a replica jersey. Redknapp appointment + and if they minimally back a manager who is an adept transfer market 'wheeler & dealer' on the cheap spending scale = equates to hot air spouted off by Mort. Sir John Hall's speach given to Ashley and Mort concerning the responsibility they have taken on their shoulders, and this responsibility equates in attempting to achieve long-overdue success, may well have fallen on deaf ears if Redknapp is the apex of their managerial targets.

He should stay there............................ and sound out potential club buyers.

To his credit Redknapp has 'wheeled & dealed', in the transfer market that is, under the watchful gaze of some pretty tight spending boards through his managerial career and achieved modest success. If the likes of Lippi & Mourinho and others mentioned don't even appear on Ashley's radar and they'll be expensive to acquire in their own right - while they go all out for a manager who is adept at managing a squad, in terms of numbers, on a next to nothing transfer budget - it's a possible indicator that they're not prepared to stump up the necessary cash needed to break in into the league's upper echelon, top 6 and higher that is. A Redknapp appointment = serious question marks have to be raised already concerning Mort/Ashleys running of the club, and this concerns both points raised above. Achieving success at a professional football club is different than the 'hawkeye handling' of a finance spreadsheet seen at a business level where it's all about keeping overheads at a bare minimum in order to appease shareholders, and it does appear that the club is being run on a 'small/big business' spreadsheet philosophy ie. for example the Barton transfer deal was put on hold until Parker's move to West Ham was sealed, and Dyer's departure heralded our late arrivals in the Summer window. This is the problem as i see it, Mort and Ashley know of no other way - every pound has to be made accountable. If Redknapp is the appex of their - ie. Mort & Ashley - managerial targets i'd be happy if Ashley was to sell up & piss off sooner rather than later tbh.

i saw nothing to suspect there would be any improvment Didnt have all of the right players for his 4-3-3 style to effectively work though then dont play it.....use the best tactics for the squad you have whichwas how he arrived at the bolton 4-3-3 inn the first place..(they played 4-4-2 at home and 4-5-1 when they first came up.) he couldnt adapt to a new club Couldn't agree more. Allardyce's lack of adaptability, especially without board backing in order to recruit the type of two-sided creative forward needed to make the 433 work offensively, would've driven us to the cusp of being relegated.

Back the manager, or sack him immediately and back the next man. With the upcoming exodus of players, thanks to the African Nations, a flirtation with relegation beckons.............................. unless the likes of Tozer & this young lad from the French second division are able to step up to the plate immediately, in a higher grade of competition. It's a big ask for the tools behind Mort's much talked about and inexpensive 'signings of tomorrow' philosophy.

With regards to NE5's earlier point, concerning widemen cutting in - on their un-natural side - to shoot and the fact they need pace. When somebody like Duff comes out of a cut - after using the outside of his right foot to knock it inside, before pivoting with their left creating the explosion off the mark, over the intial 5-10 yard that is - they create a separation cushion themselves and their defending marker. Combine this 'separation cushion from the marker' with the ground covered at rapid pace when taking into the central corridor and this is what creates the shooting angles on either side of the keeper, and this especially important for a right or left footed winger who is more likely shoot with the inside of their stronger foot when playing on their non-preferred flank. Milner doesn't create the above mentioned shooting angles on the back of his ball dribbling and the inside-cutting', and as a result there isn't much in the way of shots on target on a regular basis which is of course needed when reading Allardyce's job description for what he wants on the left flank/Milner. When Milner cuts inside his shooting appears rushed & his efforts on goal are generally more speculative as opposed to somebody who can attack the central corridor - ie. just outside the box - with pace, and this is because he doesn't create the separation cushion & the shooting angles and that extra split second of time if he frequently had a defender left in his wake. Getting back to HTT's point with regards to Milner 'excelling on the left at Leeds'. Milner was always more dangerous when he drifted inside slightly - off the ball that is - and turned his man with his 1st touch, off his marker's inside shoulder. His first career goal was a classic example. He turns his man with his 1st touch, and he's already on the outside edge of the central corridor within his long distance shooting zone. Along with the delivery to feet but also the first touch has to be spot on, and the defending marker has to overcommit. Too many variables have to go in the team's way in order to have goal production out on the left, courtesy of a Milner orientated left flank. Although it's the right-sided version i've always maintained that 'Duff on the right' is the better option, the better 'cut-in & shoot' option. Duff has the attributes - ie. he cut-ins on a dime, and he creates the above mentioned 'separation cushion' with his pace off the mark - hence hec hold down the fort on the right, and with it provide the sort of option Allardyce wants on one flank. With this Zoggy should be restored to the left. It's a bloody shame to see his invaluable attribute of being able to ghost his way into the box off-the-ball, and he knows how to find the ball in scoring positions in & around the box as well, because he's postioned too deep when playing at LB. 5-10 goals a season from a natural left-sided winger, who provides a dual threat on & off the ball when compared with somebody who doesn't deliver an awful lot as per Big Sam's job description in relation to Milner. It'a a non-argument, and as Wullie says it's becoming hair pulling stuff.

Well unless they pull their fingers out of their arses, that can be put on hold till at least the 2009/2010 season. Its really quite simple, without europe we wont attract top players. Without top players we wont get into europe. Any notions of a big 5 are thus miles away. To break this conundrum you need large investments, good judgements and to ultimately not be scared to take a gamble. Like when Bobby bought Robert. It's a bloody simple rule isn't it, and it also coincides with the potential of the *club's newly adopted youth policy. *if Mort's comments are anything to go by. And you won't attract the top youngsters either, the very same youngsters who appear on Wenger's radar thanks to his network of contacts. The same applies to Chelsea thanks to Arnesson's priceless "Black Book", and a host of other top clubs. The competition to sign them is tough, you need more than just a lucrative contract on offer to snare their signatures. Remember it was only a few seasons back when we found ourselves in a position of strength in the transfer market after the previous board backed SBR and gambled 10m on Robert in the Summer of 01/02, and this 'position of strength relates to offering them European football and for these youngsters it's an opportunity to be spotted by their respective national selectors at senior level, that we fought off AC Milan and a reportedly a host of 'big clubs' on the continent in the race to sign Viana who was then believed to the top 'creative central midfield' prospect going around.

Bolton selling one of the two creative spearheads, the other being Diouf, that play major roles in their bid to avoid the chop/relegation. If they're to sell any of them it will be for a sum that will partially offset the financial damage to the club in the event of them going down, something which imo will be the ultimate price payed by Bolton if either Diouf or Anelka are sold in January. 'Just 10m' seems under the odds given the circumstances.......... tabloid bullshite imo.

Eduardo - a year or two, give or take, and i think he'll be every bit as good as Henry. IMO he has the makings - ie. pace, 1st touch/control, doesn't have a glaring weakness with his non-preferred foot - of being a top quality creative workhorse in the final 1/3, but will also contribute 20-30 goals as well. He'll be ranked in the same sphere as Fabregas, as being one of the highest rated players in their respective positions.

so we should start planning now to protest 9 months early? and january is the test of any boards buying intentions? yep, ok mate You're obviously unaware of the bigger picture. Inactivity in the January transfer market, especially if we take advantage of the upcoming schedule and find ourselves within 6 points of the top six by January which tbh i thought was unlikely at the start of the campaign as i've always rated us as an outside chance at best, will cost us any shot at a European slot. Need positions have already mentioned ie. an 'all-out' centrally operating playmaker/forward, striking cover for Martins' during the African Cup of Nations, and christ we'll be up the proverbial s**** creek should the board cave in to any supposed unrest, provided there is base to reports, re-Owen in January. If 'damage limitation' moves aren't planned, and they must be on the agenda in Allardyce's mind at least going by quotes of his along the lines "who can we afford to sell", all because of the manager's and chairman's conficting agendas in relation to January spending the resulting inactivity will be classed as a window of missed opportunity akin to the Partizan Summer when the previous board were rightfully lambasted. I think inactivity in our part, when it comes to certain team needs, will see us dragged towards the bottom 6 by the end of the campaign, as was the case recently when Bellamy's departure wasn't covered when the manager at the time banked on Dyer coming good and duly funneled his then January kitty into the signing of Buomsong. The transfer window pertaining to Buomsong's expensive arrival, when Bellamy's depature wasn't covered, was solely down to poor judgement on the part of the manager. Shepherd backed him, however Souness blew the funds. f*** it took Souness nearly two transfer windows to realise - after blowing another 10m on midfielders Emre and Parker - that he needed both goals and creativity in the final 1/3 of the pitch. Something which Bellamy and Robert both provided, something which Luque - a supposed left sided 'wide-operating forward' - was supposed to deliver. The Partizan Summer, as a result of one window of complacency on the previous board's part, contributed to us from solidying ourselves as a top-4 side. The squad needed freshening up, and SBR shouldn't escape the firing sqaud either - his negative tactics on the night handed the attacking initiative to the visitors. The coming January window as i said earlier, fpr reasons already mentioned looms as another potential Partizan Window. If the board doesn't back Allardyce, and if there are ramifications as those outlined Mort & Ashley should be stoned........... as Shepherd, the front-man for the Halls, was in the aftermath of the ill-fated Partizan Window.

good post. bergkamp was bought by rioch tho, but wenger did get overmars who was considered one of the top wingers at the time in his first full close season/pre season summer. i wouldn't say jan is the litmus test, rather that next summer is. it's harder to acquire big names in january, and i'm not sure mort and ashley are totally convinced with allardyce (yet) so i reckon his budget in january will be limited. Big oversight on my part - giving Wenger too much credit.

Placards should be strung up from the rafters and noises of disapproval should be raised, on the final home game of the season, in the event of Owen leaving in January under the proviso of board not supplying the necessary funds in order to find a ready-made replacement. Shepherd would've been on the receiving end of this very treatment - despite rubberstamping Souness' 25m+ acquisition of England's no.1 Hitman in Owen, and one of Spain's brightest attacking talents in Luque.......... and Martins for Roeder - and the same rule should apply to Mort & Ashley. *two 10m+ acquisitions who both saved us from relegation in separate seasons. It's all good and well for Mort to be media savy by laying out a grand plan off-the-pitch and it's been to his benefit. 'Foundation building' is the right idea and it's what supporters want to hear from a new regime who are trying to earn their stripes from the supporter base. Talk of 'direction' gives supporters hope. Combine this with Ashley seemingly winning over the hearts of some by rolling up to home games draped in a replica shirt. But you know what it's still 'hot air' to me. The 'foundation building' Mort and Fredbob speak of - ie. The Arsenal Model - will take an even longer before any comparable benefits are reaped in our case when you consider that the well travelled Wenger arrived at Arsenal with his own network of personal contacts in place, in France/Africa and Sth America that is. In our case - ie. scouting networks, contacts etc - at present it's bare bones stuff and i don't think Allardyce has the same resources, from his own experience, in his locker as compared with Wenger and therefore our approach should be balanced ie. The Arsenal Youth Model combined with signing at least one marquee player a season according to departures & team needs. To borrow a well worn cliche 'Rome wasn't built in a day' but remember Wenger in the infancy of his empire building, when restructuring the already mention foundations/club direction at Arsenal re-youth, was still backed by his board in signing the one marquee attacking midfielder - ie. Bergkamp - who made an immediate impact. Until he does likewise Mort's 'foundation building' talk will stay in the realms of 'hot air' imo. In relation to how far Mort is prepared to back Allardyce, January remains a litmus test imo.