afar

You never know, no-one expected Wigan to survive when they came up. More likely is your scenario though. I agree you never really know, tbh Wigan, Brum and to a degree Reading too have been capable of falling this year but will probably survive. I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibilities that all the clubs that go up would have a chance of finishing above those 3 next year. I think a lot of clubs will learn from Derby's dreadful season, if you want to survive you simply have to spend money. Players like Dean Windass for example aren't going to keep you in the top flight of the toughest league in the world.

It's incredibly tight at the moment, it really all depends on who runs into form in the final straight. Only Hull appear to have any form at the moment, all the rest are dropping points. West Brom have games in a hand and have probably been distracted by their exploits in the FA cup, I'm expecting them to refocus now they are out, they could come with a run. Stoke have good run in and are difficult to beat there problem has been scoring goals, there manager is a bit on the negative side too, bit like our former boss. Hull have come with a good run, not sure if they can sustain it though, they seem to be coming good at the right time they just need to guard against peaking too soon. Bristol City since they hit the top have had some really poor results, they lost again on Saturday. yet they are still up there which is testiment to how badly the others have done of late too. Watford have been here before, like West Brom that experience may count for a lot. It really is incredibly tight any one of thesa teams who are able to string a few results together could go up. But if I was put on the spot I would probably plump for WBA and Watford going up automatically with with Wolves sneaking in through the back door via the playoffs.

He's certainly changed my opinion of him with his recent performances, not necessarily the goals but the obvious drive and determination, his apitite has returned and that's great to see. TBH though he's not the only one, I just finished watching the whole game today, obviously Barton, Butt and Geremi have pulled themselves around too but I also want to have a word (tin hat is donned) for Duff, in his brief cameo he looked more threatening than in the rest of his 3 years at the club, obviously it's only 20 mins but it was encouraging to see.

Not sure i agree with all of that, my point was that Everton are handicapped as a club by having Livepool in the same city. i think its a bit of an unrealisitc view to suggest that the tradition of the clubs has much standing in todays game, unfortunately it is an aspect of the game which seems to be phased out in order to make more room for the souless business side of the game. I like Everton as a club, i think Moyes has done a fantastic job and maybe doesnt get half the credit he deserves (credit which seems to be reseverd for the english Sam Allrdyce) but i genuinely believe that having a good history, having a good standing at present and having a good tradition count for very little in toays more moey driven game. And especially so when you have a massive world reknonwed club on your doorstep. Its David versus Goliath without the rock. So what do you think about Atletico Madrid? They attract big name players every year and have pretty much an identical honours list to Everton and the biggest club in the world on their doorstep. The difference being money. You just said yourself that today's game is money driven, Atletico have lots of it and we don't. It's also worth considering that back in the 70's when Liverpool were far, far stronger than they are now and were winning everything in sight it was no handicap to us in the long run, we came through it stronger and won major trophies ourselves in the 80's. Back then we had the finances to compete at the very top end of the market and go after all the top players but now we're operating a step below that. If/when things change in the boardroom then that will be reflected on the pitch. We'll be able to genuinely compete at that point but until then, we're hoping one of the rich clubs will slip up and our manager will be able to capitalise on it. Same as Villa/City/Spurs/Newcastle. What about Athletico Madrid? There are alot of incomparable differences there that you cant really apply to Liverpool/Everton, such as the city, the weather etc. Does that not have an effect of the percieved glamour of the club? Also are Athetico competing with Real for these big players? I dont think so, and i dont think that there have been many cases of Real losing out on a player to Athletico. I think you've inadvertently explained yourself why Liverpool are comletely relevant to the success of your club, if Everton were the only club in that city, then do you think you wold of benefitted from that extra support? To say that having Liverpool in your city is irrelavent nonsense just sounds like yu may be in denial. I just cant see how you dont hink that them being in your city doesnt have adirect effect on how you do as a club. You don't often talk a lot of sense but I think you're dead right here. If there was a city called Everton and EFC were the only club then they would for sure be a bigger draw. Again you are right NUFC has benefitted hugely from Newcastle being a one club city, if things start to get on a roll here the whole city, most of the surronding conurbation, more than half of the county to the south and pratically all of one England's largest counties to the north get behind them. Our catchment area is absolutely huge. But no matter how well Everton do the shadow of Liverpool has always hung over them since the 70's, funny though that wasn't always the case before Shankley, Everton were very much Liverpool's (the city that is) club.

It was live on Rogers SportsNet HD out here. Was really enjoying the first half, when the whistle went for half time, go up to grab some Breakfast, then we had a bloody poor cut. Lost power for 3 hours Still the whole game is being re ran right now on Setanta, so I've got the PVR working

No offence, but that's such a load of patronising f****** rubbish. "General apathy" - get a f****** clue, mate. Have a look at the recent history of the club, and you might have an idea. I used to watch your club an awful lot in the McKeag era (I suspect that name means nothing to you), and saw how shitly you were run back then (something I agree with NE5 on). Well, that's the way we've been run for the best part of 40 years, with the exception of the last 2 years, and 3 years betwen 1979 and 1982. In the years 79-82, we won the league and the european cup. In the last two years, we've been looking a lot more positive. When you were signing players like Shearer and Owen, we were sending Erik Bakke back to Leeds because we couldn't afford his wages. We were run like a f****** corner shop. File that under "apathy". I could pick more holes in your patronising rubbish, but I won't, lest I fall out with some of the friends I've made on here, but I'll just say that in a few posts you've epitomised what people mean when they get a negative idea of Newcastle fans. I have to admit that what I wrote was intended to get your goat up a little and I appologise for causing you offence. You're right it was patronising in the extreme. To address one pont though: A lot of people refer back to those dark days in our history as the McKeag years but McKeag's stewardship was actually only a part of the the problem. The real issues began under Lord Westwood and later Stan Seymour jnr. who's was very much a kin to Douglas Hall, his father too had been such a major influence on this club and his memory has been sullied by his offspring. I venture to say I watched a hell of a lot more NUFC games during that than you did, so please do not try to belittle me. I still stand by my general point though, sorry if that just endorses the negative opionon of NUFC fans that these people of yours have.

I don't know how accurate it is but I have been told that the medication he takes reacts badly with alcohol, couple of pints and he appears ratarsed. It could explain why drinking to excess hasn't previously been a problem, but with his knee problems, if he is now drinking like a fish I wouldn't blame him. I'd be pissed off if I were in his shoes. If he's on any medication he shouldn't be drinking full stop. It's easy for me to say having been there done that with days of my youth but with fame and fortune comes sacrifice.

I'm not sure it is just a form thing with Harper. He's always been the steady and reliable keeper he has shown over the last few weeks. He's very underated ImO especially by his own fans. A keeper you can rely on, who's not prone to rushes of blood is priceless.

I tried to stay clear of the "Big Club" for very good reason, Villa and Everton have as rich and probably richer history than ourselves. The general apathy for which both clubs are held is quite amazing considering that their history. Aston Villa are one of only 4 English clubs to win the biggest prize in club football. Everton's history of success is the envy of most other clubs. Yet neither has that draw for the big name player. I wonder what either can do to change that because until they do they'll never progress further than they are at present.

It doesn't actually take that long to move up the "also rans" league. 2 years ago we were 7th and that was wih Souness in charge for the majority of it. Look at Man City, they were far worse than even us last year, but they have been fighting for the "best of the rest" all season. Villa too have improved greatly. There is is not a huge difference between ourselves and those immediately above us in the league. Obviously the big jump is break that top 4 and that is where I agree it will take much more time, a lot of money and a fair chunk of luck too. Having said all that if we finish in mid table obscurity yet again next year, I'll not be calling for KK's head.

This is why I should shut my cakehole and let others do the talking. My thoughts exactly only much more eloquently put and way less confrontational

But we've been mid table for the last couple of years already . We're 12th at the moment, it doesn't get much more mid table than that ? A mid table finish would not be an improvement, we should be looking to win the "best of the rest" league, there is no reason at all why with a few decent signings, we can't compete with the likes of Everton, Man City and Spurs. That's what KK will be aiming for I'm sure of that.

Trust me fickleness is not confined to this forum. The beauty about football is that it takes your emotions through a rollercoaster ride, one minute you are up next you are down. The fickleness you refer to is just people optimistically hoping things will change, pessmistically fearing the worst or realising that either emotion was wrong. Who wants to be a robot and stay emotionally level headed all the time ? I sure as hell don't. Football is a passionate game and that's what we all love about it.

Still above Everton and Vila Joking aside, this doesn't tell the full story as we are always hampered with geography. The away support rarely fills up their allocation and a lot of that is down to how bloody far away Newcastle is for most other clubs. It's also way eaiser to sell out smaller grounds such as Derby's and portsmouth than it is for the bigger ones. Especially if your team is doing poorly. As much as we deride though that table does show that Spurs do pretty well. I think them, Portsmouth and probably Liverpool would significantly improve their attendance with larger stadiums.

We have a bigger stadium? Pretty sure Villa and Everton sell out every week. They don't sell out now with a smaller stadium !!!

If Cardiff City win the FA Cup then, as it stands, they are not allowed to qualify for the Uefa Cup because they are registered with the Football Association of Wales and would not be put forward as one of England's representatives. In that instance, the FA Cup runners-up would take their place in the Uefa Cup - although the Football Association are reviewing their rules. I don't really understand why Cardiff are register with the Welsh FA and not the FA. Yes of course they are Welsh but they play and have played in the English leagues throughout the most part of their history. They gave up the chance to qualify through Europe by joinging the welsh league. They prefered to stay in the English league, seems strange we would have a team affliated with another FA that we allow to compete in our league unless of course it's the FA that doesn't want them or FIFA insist on it. Seems a weird situation and a little unfair on Cardiff.

I'm a little nervous about this game, it could be an "after the lord mayor's show" kind of game, we'll find it hard for sure to match the level of performance. We may also fall into the trap of thinking we are safe now, fortunately we haven't heard anything along the lines of that from the management or players but it may be a natural reaction. Reading too will play their part, and shouldn't be underestimated, seem like a very hot and cold team this year, some days they can look good but others they can look downright awful. they've deffinately turned the corner in recent weeks and are in no real danger of going down, which ay or may not be a good thing from our point of view.

And this is why we are still a bigger draw than the likes of Villa and Everton. It's not just a couple of seasons of mediocritiy, it's 40 years of unfulfilled potential, this is what is quite amazing about our club.

I'm amazed people still devalue bnoth our keepers. For me there are way more pressing concerns than the No. 1 shirt. Both are solid premeirship performers and we are very lucky to have them. On the subject of which one should be between the sticks, Harper for me, Given's shot stopping is excellent but his domination of the area has always been the weakest part of his game. As others have said the harewood incident has taken something out of him, but I maintain he's still a good back up.

I refuse to post in this thread because I started the exact same thread a few weeks back and it only reached 2 pages, ungrateful bastards http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=51055.0 bugger I just added to the post count

As an outsider I agree with you afar. Newcastle still have the mystique of a club that could be so much more that it is. Unfulfilled potential is what appeals to the ego of players and managers because they can see the adulation and hero worship that would come with leading Newcastle to the top. I don't think appoiting Keegan has helped that appeal at all though but I do still think that Newcastle has a certain something about it as a club....that and you pay silly wages too!! I'm not sure you'd have a chance of getting Bentley to sign though. It seems pretty obvious his whole approach is geared towards securing his spot in the England team and he feels that he needs to be playing and proving himself against foreign opposition in Europe tofurther his claims. Personally I think he ad Liverpool would be an ideal match. Villa would stand a good chance too, manily because of Martin O'Neil, who I'm sure is a much bigger draw for today's generation of players than Keegan is. Spurs too would be in with a good shout because they look like they're heading in the right direction. Outside of those clubs I can't see anyone else really having a chance (Chelsea & Utd won't want him). Thanks Hoop, I think you are spot on. I even agree with you on Martin O'Neill being a bigger pull on today's generation of footballers than Keegan (although I still don't think if given the choice between Villa and NUFC, he would plump for the former). Keegan kind of lost that aura when he managed teams like Fulman and Man City (not so much the club, more the fact the were languishing in the first division at the time). I think when he left us, he was better than that, it would have hurt but he could easily have took over another team pushing for honours. The England debacle too dinted that image. Also just over time people have forgotten or are too young to remember what an outstanding career he had. Back to Bentley though, you are right I think, Liverpool looks like his most likely destination but if they are none of the other top 4 are interested I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility that'll he'll end up at the toon.

Mate, the last thing I want to do is get into a slanging match, but have you watched much football this year? Everton are currently in fifth and looking closer than anyone to breaking the big four dominance. Spurs might want to concentrate on cracking the top half of the table before they look at the big four, and until last Sunday, a lot of people here were worried about relegation. Bentley wants CL football, he's only going to get it in three places. To be fair to the misguided lad, he was on about te "mystique" of the club and not the position we are in at the moment. And just a side note, not that i agree with him much, but it would be a testament to the club if despite having massive relegation fears this season we were still able to attract big players like we have done in the past despite having a bit of a checkered history. Just a thought. That's very good of you to say and thanks for all those lovely compliments !! Anyway you're right (aside from the little digs of course), I think Brummie needs to remember that their rennaisance is still very much in it's early stages, they have a long way to go to eclipse the levels we reached not too long ago. Never did I say we had better team than Villa or Everton, what I said was that we are a bigger draw to potential new recruits and the fact that that is the case is a tad embarrasing from your point of view considering the turmoil that's engulfed our club over the last few years. I stick to my line that Villa and Everton are still "so what" fortunate to be ran by 2 excellent managers.

We're not going to be challenging for the top 4 next season though, people are likely to be disappointed if they're expecting us to spend £100 million and cracking the top 4 so soon. I don't think we'll see anymore of an inflation in players either, the likes of Sunderland and Fulham spent big last year which pushed the price of average players up and I can't see them rising much higher. I'm not saying that I'm expecting us to spend 100Mill and I expect us to be back in the top 4. I'm just saying that's the sort of of figure and more it willl take. I think you are dead wrong on inflation. The televsion revenues are so extreme and there are more than a handful of rich owners out there, that prices will rise again. 30 - 40 million may very well be the norm, that's basically the difference in revenue between the Championship and PL, I can see more than one team willing to invest all that money in the playing staff. Looking at the teams: ManUre - will always be in the market for quality players, need to replace a few older heads too. Arsenal - what looks like another nearly season for them may encourage finances to be made available for the missing piece(s) of the jigsaw. Chelsea - Probably ready for a rebuild, they have fallen behind their recent high standards and will probably be in the market for some quality signings. Liverpool - They'll spend big in yet another attempt to bridge the gap between themselves and the top 2. Everton - Will look to strengthen considerably for their euro campaign and likely to need to find replacements for some key players. Their squad is also woefully thin. Man City - That Thai bloke seems to have money to burn and Sven's only too happy to help him spend it. Villa - O'Neill's done well with what he's got but will feel some big spending can help him compete for honours. Portsmouth - Not sure, they may rest on their laurels of a likely FA cup win but Harry is always wheeling and dealing , so I doubt things will be quiet there. West Ham - For the investment they have made they will probably be a little disappointed with their season, I would image they need a player or 2, they'll have the finances to do it. Blackburn - Their pittiful crowds prevent any serious speculation in the transfer market, wouldn't expect it to change too much but maybe in the market for some decnt players if they make inter toto. Spurs - I think it's a certainty they'll make some big changes by letting Ramos bring in his own people. Reading, Wigan and Brum - These teams won't be spending big but will want to ensure there PL status by bringing in some proven talent. Boro - I think they will have to spend big to make sure they are still in the top flight next year but not suer if they will. Dirty Mackems - Keane will walk out if he's not supported by Quinn and his board, they seem to have the money to back and despite his dredful record in the market, I think they give him the finances he wants. The 3 promoted teams - Each will want to stay in the top flight, each will know their squad's need boosting.

I honestly don't share all this anti Liverpool stuff, I don't really mind them, I would prefer to see Arsenal go through because of the football they play but I'm not going to slash my wrists if Liverpool play Chelsea again.

If we are serious about getting back to a level where we can compete, we'll need at least 100mill, to break the top 4, I wouldn't be shocked at requiring 200mill. There is such a big gap between them and the rest it's un-real. 30 - 40 mill might not be enough to bring us back to the head of the chasing pack level. Because there is so much money floating around, I expect big inflation this summer which will make Darren Bent look a bargain at 18mill.