afar

Yes we did, I think we topped the table early on in all bar our first season in the the prem when we took a few games to settle down before building up a head of steam, that first season we actually sustained our form much better than the ones to follow. Our home record was our foundation in those years, SJP was such a hard place to come a get a result. I wouldn't be surprised to see us loose just a couple at home next year.

You are simply wrong, 91-92, we were dreadful, avoided relegation to third on last day... (keegan wasnt there at start) 92-93... 11 wins at start....Champions 93-94.... 1st season in prem...3rd 94-95....Team rebuilding....6th 95-96....Eric Cantona robbed us the Tiltle.....2nd 96-97.... played over half a season under KK....2nd thatl be, 1st, 3rd, 6th , 2nd 2nd, seasons began with KK as manager, And it was F-king great, i was there home and away. anybody thinks we are finishing half way down the league next season, is wrong. Anything is possible for sure and you are right in highlighting the fabulous record KK has at managing us. However the PL is a completely different ball game now, you really need huge amounts of money to compete with the big 4 in the league. Even if Ashley invested of 100 million in the summer, I don't think that would be enough to close the gap, it's that big.

It's an interesting time to make a prediction like this because so much could change over the summer which would effect the table. I have a feeling that Liverpool will drop the axe on Benny and would not discount the possibility of old red nose retiring from Manure should they win the double. Obviously Sven looks like he’s a goner, Grant is not 100% safe especially if he fails to win either the title or the cup. So you are looking at possibly 3 or 4 big job openings in the summer. Villa have down fantastically with an excellent manager, especially when you consider they’ve not really spent huge amounts. Their squad is extremely thin and low in real quality but they’ll probably try to address that in the summer and try to push on from this season. I have a feeling they will pip Everton to 5th spot so they’ll need a much bigger squad for Europe. Everton are similar in many respects to Villa, accomplished a lot with not the largest of squad’s and few stand out players. Again they have an excellent manager but unlike Villa they don’t appear to be financed well. They’ll probably make a couple of signings around the 10 million mark but because of the competition I don’t think that’ll be enough push them on to realistically challenge the likes of Liverpool however they’ll still be competing for the ‘best of the rest’ title. Spurs, I’m not sure things are as rosey in the garden as we are led to believe under Ramos. We are constantly being told that the drop off in their form is down to the fact their season was over the minute they won the League cup and that next season Ramos will be able to bring in his own team and things will improve. I’m not so sure, I wouldn’t be surprised to see them win the UEFA next year or even retain their League cup but I think Ramos will struggle to get results in the PL and they’ll finish in another mid table spot. Pompey have had an excellent season, should they win the FA cup they’ll have achieve something we have not managed in the last 40 years. Redknapp has down a great job down there, the distraction of a European campaign and trying to match this season’s progress however could effect their league form. Man City, if they sack Sven then they have a mutiny on their hands with the players and fans however that’ll soon be forgotten about should they bring in a world class replacement and with their financial backing, I’m sure that’s possible. It could still be a transitional season for them though but on the positive side their new signings have had a year now to adjust to the PL and should be better for it next season. Blackburn, I think they’ll loose Bentley for sure and possibly Santa Cruz, I also can’t see Friedel having another season as good as this last one. It could be a struggle next year but Hughes is great in the transfer market as long as he’s still in charge they’ll replace what they loose with good quality and comfortably be mid table. West Ham, their squad has a lot of talent if it can stay fit, there also doesn’t seem to be an end in sight to financial backing they have, they also benefit hugely from being London based, so much more attractive to potential new signings. However a lot of their talent is aging, they have some good young kids but are they ready to make the step up and will the manager resist the temptation to pick on reputation. The dirty Mackems, begrudgingly you have to say they have had a great season, they survived, something they spectacularly failed at the last two times they came up. Keane has made some shocking signings but somehow it’s worked for him and they’ll be playing PL football again next year. He’ll need to be backed heavily again in the close season and pick more targets like Jones, if they are to progress into the 2nd tier in the premiership. Ourselves, I have a huge amount of faith in the KK and the transfer market, his record for this club is second to none but I think our success will ride on how successful he is in persuading players to choose NUFC over other clubs. The Modric affair was not a good sign, lets hope we don’t see too many more similar stories throughout the summer. I think it’s fair to say he’s got a lot harder sell than he had in the past. Well here is my prediction for how the league will end come May 2009: 1. Arsenal 2. Man Utd 3. Chelsea 4. Liverpool 5. Villa 6. Everton 7. Man City 8. NUFC 9. Spurs 10. Pompey 11. Blackburn 12. West Ham. 13. West Brom. 14. Mackems 15. Fulham 16. Wigan 17. Bolton. 18. Boro 19. Crystal Palace or Hull 20. Stoke. Obviously there are so many factors that could change all this such as managerial changes, off field issues and of course transfer activity.

Where's Roy Keane, Frank Stapleton and Liam Brady ? For us no George Roboledo. doh

As others mentioned it's completely aimed at trying to preserve FIFA/UEFA power base, they are petrified that the PL will become too powerful. The Foreign interest in our league is scaring them silly, in a lot of countries their own domestic leagues play a poor second fiddle to the PL. To be perfectly honest I don't give a damn about other leagues, it's all about the development of our Premiership as far as I'm concerned. I want to see the best players in the world playing in the best league (hopefully wearing Black and White stripes). If Blatter was coming from a angle of protecting the small leagues from the mean and overly powerful Premiership, then I would probably understand his point. But to be hiding behind the development of local youth and the national teams is nonsensicul. If the english talent is good enough, they will get the opportunity, if it's not they won't, simple as. How can it be bad for a local youngster to want to aspire to be as good as a Ronaldo or Torres, who play for their favourite teams as oppossed to a Bramble or a Franny Jeffers. The appearance of these world stars in our league only encourages local talent rather than suppressing it. On a side issue, how the hell would this work for the welsh clubs in our league or Berwick playing in the scottish league ? Would Cardiff have to field 6 welsh qualified players in every game, would an English player be classed as a foriegner or would it be the other way round and they would have play 6 English qualified players with the Welsh being classed at foreigners ? You would find a lot of players scanning their parentage for some English blood, the national teams for the rest of the UK would suffer greatly as no one who is dual qualified would commit to any other home nation than England. Self interested motivated crap from Blatter yet again. FIFA and UEFA need an overhaul IMO, it is no bad thing that the PL is challenging them and giving them something to worry about.

A big factor could be their midweek game, hopefully they feel a little jaded from that and emotionally jaded from their cup exploits. We'll need that and some luck to get 3 points there. Since I'll be flying for much of tomorrow, I'm not going to be able to know the result perhaps until Sunday.

yes, I was surprised when Bobby Robson got rid of him too Completely off topic, but since you are here NE5, what do you remember of the Imre Varadi situation? I saw KK's debut goal against QPR the other day and the first player to mob him was Varadi and it jogged my memory a little. He used to bang in the goals regularily and I thought he was great at the time. Why did we get shot ? Was it because of the rumour that was going around at the time about him being a bit of a ladies man and his alleged going ons with certain players wives. Or was it simply just the fact that we had the local lad with a huge amount of potential coming in from Vancouver Whitecaps to replace him ? I always thought that Varadi was limited. He had pace and that caused problems, plus he was the only player with pace which highlighted it more, pretty much like Martins at the moment. He also - like Martins again - lacked composure in his finishing. He scored some spectacular goals but missed more easier ones. He missed them when he maybe had time to think about it. Sometimes he scored some goals from "under his feet", by that I mean he didn't appear to know what he was doing, he had no control over his intentions. We were always going to want a better footballer, and Peter Beardsley came along, who Arthur Cox had wanted earlier and he finally got him from Vancouver. He was OK, Varadi, decent attitude and everything, but the 2nd division was just his level probably. I think of players with his pace, and players like Mick Quinn who was a great finisher but lacked pace in footballing situations, and if you could combine the 2 you would have a good striker and footballer. I have heard about the ladies man rumours, but don't really know for sure. I guess I look back at him from a rose tainted specs point of view. I was still very young then but he and Peter Withe were the first players I had personally been sorry to see leave. I was too young to remember when players like SuperMac, Alan Kennedy, Irving Natress and Terry Mc. Actually if you look back at that mid 70's team it could have gone places, with those above and the likes of Terry Hibbitt and Pop Robson. Was it Gordon Lee's fault, the board's, player power, or all of the above, that we drifted into wilderness ? aye, I understand that. I used to like a player called Tommy Knox, and my first ever favourite player was Trevor Hockey. Both players who if I saw them now would probably realise they weren't the bees knees. I think that Irving Nattrass is one of the best defenders I've ever seen play for Newcastle. He played right back, but played some games as a centre back and when he played there he was awesome, people say Woodgate was great but Nattrass was just like that in fact I don't really think we saw the best of Woodgate at Newcastle anyway. I think Gordon Lee was the right man at the wrong time for Newcastle to be honest, I know most people attach the stigma of selling MacDonald to him but we did better without MacDonald, he was right to sell him, we got a good price for a player that we knew wouldn't play till he was 30, and if we had had a board that backed Gordon Lee he would have brought more success to Newcastle like all of his successors did, we were on the right road when he left. He had the right idea but was totally misrepresented and has been since too. Peter Withe was a top player by the way. I don't think the fans ever forgave him for selling Supermac, it's difficult for people not around at the time to understand MM's stature at the club at the time. I was still too young to understand everythingt but even at my young age I was able to appreciate how much of a star Supermac was. His goals per game record is phenominal, selling him was akin to if Guillet had sold Shearer. The difference between Guillet and Gordon Lee though was that at least Lee had a clue and was right to want rid of his star player. I think we finished in our highest league postion, in a a very long time under Lee. He aquired the 'anti star' label, rightly or wrongly people thought he preferred a team of workers as oppossed to one brimming with talent. I can't agree that the squad of players was so talented. They finished 15th for 2 consecutive seasons. They finished 15th again under Lee in the first season before he made the changes that shot us up to 5th. There were some good players but essentially there were too many individuals and too many homers. Too many inconsistent players. The whole mood of the club was that they were happy with seeing individual players, on the basis that if 2 or 3 of them had a good game then it was OK. it kept the club up and that was about it. Lee brought an altogether a different more professional attitude and more professional approach. He influenced me a lot to be honest. He quite simply said that Newcastle's whole approach to the game was wrong, he made a comment saying they played "back to front" football. He meant that the club relied too much on individuality and the team ethic was poor, and if you wanted to have consistent results then you needed consistently performing players, and this stemmed from attitude, approach, respect for your fellow team mates etc etc. Pretty basic stuff you may think but think about it, it epitomised some of the things that were wrong with the team and the club that he took over. He got off on the wrong foot completely, when he said that he didn't like MacDonald advertising Tartan bitter on placards in the city, because he thought it was wrong for a professional athlete to present such an image and he should be seen to concentrate on his health, fitness and behave as such. Of course he was quite right, but it was new thing, a new idea, and people didn't like it because MacDonald was the great untouchable. This brought on his comments about wanting a team and not one player held up as being bigger and better than all the others. All bollocks. He had a problem winning over fans from that point, and became misrepresented. He was winning the fans over in the end, when we were 2nd in the table in the November and looking like genuine contenders for the highest league position for many many years. But it came too late, he buggered off to Everton quite simply because Newcastle were a shitty club with a board that wouldn't back him even with the money he got for offloading MacDonald, and Everton were and acted like the big club they were at the time. I've posted on this before, I'll look for it if its on this server. Thanks NE5, I feel educated, as I said I was a little too young for it all, but I do recall the contempt Lee was held in despite the results on the field, which obviously now makes no sense. I agree at the time we were definately a Mickey Mouse club compared to Everton. Talking of Everton was he much of a success there ? I seem to recall he wasn't but may be wrong.

yes, I was surprised when Bobby Robson got rid of him too Completely off topic, but since you are here NE5, what do you remember of the Imre Varadi situation? I saw KK's debut goal against QPR the other day and the first player to mob him was Varadi and it jogged my memory a little. He used to bang in the goals regularily and I thought he was great at the time. Why did we get shot ? Was it because of the rumour that was going around at the time about him being a bit of a ladies man and his alleged going ons with certain players wives. Or was it simply just the fact that we had the local lad with a huge amount of potential coming in from Vancouver Whitecaps to replace him ? I always thought that Varadi was limited. He had pace and that caused problems, plus he was the only player with pace which highlighted it more, pretty much like Martins at the moment. He also - like Martins again - lacked composure in his finishing. He scored some spectacular goals but missed more easier ones. He missed them when he maybe had time to think about it. Sometimes he scored some goals from "under his feet", by that I mean he didn't appear to know what he was doing, he had no control over his intentions. We were always going to want a better footballer, and Peter Beardsley came along, who Arthur Cox had wanted earlier and he finally got him from Vancouver. He was OK, Varadi, decent attitude and everything, but the 2nd division was just his level probably. I think of players with his pace, and players like Mick Quinn who was a great finisher but lacked pace in footballing situations, and if you could combine the 2 you would have a good striker and footballer. I have heard about the ladies man rumours, but don't really know for sure. I guess I look back at him from a rose tainted specs point of view. I was still very young then but he and Peter Withe were the first players I had personally been sorry to see leave. I was too young to remember when players like SuperMac, Alan Kennedy, Irving Natress and Terry Mc. Actually if you look back at that mid 70's team it could have gone places, with those above and the likes of Terry Hibbitt and Pop Robson. Was it Gordon Lee's fault, the board's, player power, or all of the above, that we drifted into wilderness ? aye, I understand that. I used to like a player called Tommy Knox, and my first ever favourite player was Trevor Hockey. Both players who if I saw them now would probably realise they weren't the bees knees. I think that Irving Nattrass is one of the best defenders I've ever seen play for Newcastle. He played right back, but played some games as a centre back and when he played there he was awesome, people say Woodgate was great but Nattrass was just like that in fact I don't really think we saw the best of Woodgate at Newcastle anyway. I think Gordon Lee was the right man at the wrong time for Newcastle to be honest, I know most people attach the stigma of selling MacDonald to him but we did better without MacDonald, he was right to sell him, we got a good price for a player that we knew wouldn't play till he was 30, and if we had had a board that backed Gordon Lee he would have brought more success to Newcastle like all of his successors did, we were on the right road when he left. He had the right idea but was totally misrepresented and has been since too. Peter Withe was a top player by the way. I don't think the fans ever forgave him for selling Supermac, it's difficult for people not around at the time to understand MM's stature at the club at the time. I was still too young to understand everythingt but even at my young age I was able to appreciate how much of a star Supermac was. His goals per game record is phenominal, selling him was akin to if Guillet had sold Shearer. The difference between Guillet and Gordon Lee though was that at least Lee had a clue and was right to want rid of his star player. I think we finished in our highest league postion, in a a very long time under Lee. He aquired the 'anti star' label, rightly or wrongly people thought he preferred a team of workers as oppossed to one brimming with talent.

Got to say I hated ITV's coverage and Brian Moore's commentary. Nothing beats Motty before he got a little senile.

A little irony in being wrong and not seeing it in an admit you're wrong thread. i dont see doubting keegan as being a big blunder though, given the context of his appointment, i would say it is very lucky that we may possably be wrong, whereas writing off owen was stupid and naive and i'm perfectly happy to admit it. I still dont think its wrong to doubt Keegan, to be honest, whilst im extremely happy to have him in charge of the transfer budget this summer, im still ready to admit that im a little worried about pre season and keegans effectiveness for next season. Im citing Roeder's honeymoon period and subsequent insipd season as an example of where my concerns lie. To be honest i think it's very naive to think that Keegan will be a resounding success after 10 games or so, if so many people had no doubts about Keegans ability then why wasnt he the outstanding choice for appointment on this board post Allardyce? Once again the stuff you spout out completely astounds me !! Comparing KK with Roeder, are you for real ? Roeder had no pedigree, none whatsoever, he did an absolute fantastic job in getting us into Europe but it was clear to enyone who had any sense back then that he was riding the "thank god Souness has gone" bus and that appointing him on a full time would be a disaster. KK on the other hand had previously dragged our club from nothingness to the very summit of English football, his record in the PL for us is amazing, 3rd, 6th, 2nd and halfway to 2nd in the season he quit. NUFC were geniune title contenders when he was in charge last time, no one, not even SBR has managed to achieve that at this club is 70 odd years ! He's earned the right to expect belief from those calling themselves toon fans. Have i put a bee under your bonnet or something?? As far as i can rememebr ive posted 2 responses to you which you've begrudigngly agreed with. Get over yourself. Where have i compared Roeder the manager with Keegan the manager?? In fact you've nicely summed up exactly what my minor concerns are, Roeder benefitted from riding the "thank god Souness has gone" bus well, are you actually that naive and blindsighted to have absolutely no concerns whatsoever that keegan might not be benefitting from the "thank god Allardyce has gone" bus? After 10 games, im happy to admit that yes i am a little concerned, and the only time i will put those concerns behind me is next season when we can see for sure whether Keegan has had the efect we all hope for. Like ive said, im too cynical a supporter (having seen some decent managers appointed and subsequently fail) to think that any manager will be a resounding success irrespective of there pedigree, only the absolutle cream of maangement would just about get my blind faith, and that is at a push. Do you completely disagree with me still? EDIT: There's belief and then theres blind faith, what you've described sounds like the latter im afraid, like ive said, i dont subscribe to that because im not naive. Where are you comparing the two ? Can you read your own posts ffs. "Im citing Roeder's honeymoon period and subsequent insipd season as an example of where my concerns lie." The Roeder situation was completely different to KK's, completely 'citing' it makes absolutely no sense. You seem to be suggesting that you are the only supporter to have been dissapointed by the failings of other managers. Well take a ticket buddy, there are plenty in line ahead of you. I am one of the most pessimistic fans I know, I'm not up to Phil K's level ;P but I often think no matter what we do it'll end in tears. But I've always had faith in KK and always will, he owes us nothing and the least we can do is show some faith in him and trust him that no matter what transpires he'll only have the best interests of NUFC in his mind. As for the buses is concerned, it's not a bad point however, I for one was not too happy at the the time of the sacking of SA and I am not on that bus. Souness was loathed almost unamimously by fans and players a like, I don't think SA had the time to build up that same level of hatred. And how is that a comparison?? Thats an example, as intended in the original post of where some concerns lie. Im not saying Roeder is a better manager than Keegan or Keegan is a better man than Roeder, im just saying that there is a precedent of the team playing under a regime they didnt enjoy and when that regime ended the reilef showed in their subsequent performances. Whats so vastly different to the current situation? I can see similarities hence my cautious attitude. "I seem to be suggesting "that i am the only one to be dissapointed by the failings of other managers." - What?? You've literally just made that up. Get a grip man. All im doing is excercisng my right to caution having witnessed things like these go tits up for us in the past. I cant believe you're that narrow minded that you cant see where my caution comes from. As for the faith in Keegan thing, well yeh, i agree upto a point, and i love Keegan and was desperate and am desperate for him not to ruin his legacy with us. Ive already said in the past and in fact present that i would rather have no one else in charge of our transfer funds. The buses thing is the crux of my point, it seems clear to me that the players didnt respond to allardyce as would of been expected, so that is exactly where my concerns with Keegan lie at the moment, like i say, next season is where it will show for me. OK leaving out the bitterness, which was instigated in this thread by me, so I apologise for that. Don't you think that the buses were in completely different stages for Roeder and KK ? When Roeder took over that anti Souness Bus was full to overflowing, kind of a bendy double decker type (if there is such a thing). While the Anti Big Sam bus was fill up nicely but there was still plenty of room on board, that didn't necessiate the giving up of your seat for the pensioner trying use their bus pass before 9am. I have never witnessed such a shear dislike for the manager as we had under Souness, I don't even think Guillet reached those levels, certainly not from the fans anyway. SA's techniques were not going down too well with the players and clearly not producing the results he was after, but he hadn't lost the dressing room like Souness had. If anything SA's techniques were a hinderance to KK becuase the players clearly weren't fit enough rather than the help the Anti Souness factor had on Roeder.

yes, I was surprised when Bobby Robson got rid of him too Completely off topic, but since you are here NE5, what do you remember of the Imre Varadi situation? I saw KK's debut goal against QPR the other day and the first player to mob him was Varadi and it jogged my memory a little. He used to bang in the goals regularily and I thought he was great at the time. Why did we get shot ? Was it because of the rumour that was going around at the time about him being a bit of a ladies man and his alleged going ons with certain players wives. Or was it simply just the fact that we had the local lad with a huge amount of potential coming in from Vancouver Whitecaps to replace him ? I always thought that Varadi was limited. He had pace and that caused problems, plus he was the only player with pace which highlighted it more, pretty much like Martins at the moment. He also - like Martins again - lacked composure in his finishing. He scored some spectacular goals but missed more easier ones. He missed them when he maybe had time to think about it. Sometimes he scored some goals from "under his feet", by that I mean he didn't appear to know what he was doing, he had no control over his intentions. We were always going to want a better footballer, and Peter Beardsley came along, who Arthur Cox had wanted earlier and he finally got him from Vancouver. He was OK, Varadi, decent attitude and everything, but the 2nd division was just his level probably. I think of players with his pace, and players like Mick Quinn who was a great finisher but lacked pace in footballing situations, and if you could combine the 2 you would have a good striker and footballer. I have heard about the ladies man rumours, but don't really know for sure. I guess I look back at him from a rose tainted specs point of view. I was still very young then but he and Peter Withe were the first players I had personally been sorry to see leave. I was too young to remember when players like SuperMac, Alan Kennedy, Irving Natress and Terry Mc. Actually if you look back at that mid 70's team it could have gone places, with those above and the likes of Terry Hibbitt and Pop Robson. Was it Gordon Lee's fault, the board's, player power, or all of the above, that we drifted into wilderness ?

yes, I was surprised when Bobby Robson got rid of him too Completely off topic, but since you are here NE5, what do you remember of the Imre Varadi situation? I saw KK's debut goal against QPR the other day and the first player to mob him was Varadi and it jogged my memory a little. He used to bang in the goals regularily and I thought he was great at the time. Why did we get shot ? Was it because of the rumour that was going around at the time about him being a bit of a ladies man and his alleged going ons with certain players wives. Or was it simply just the fact that we had the local lad with a huge amount of potential coming in from Vancouver Whitecaps to replace him ?

When there were standing areas it was far better. The first Keegan years so far as the excitement and expectation were in a class of their own. But generally, every stadium in the premiership would be better off if they had standing areas behind the goals. With controlled admission, ticket only etc etc if needed. No problems with that aspect. We know that the Heysel stadium, and Hillsborough should never happen again but in my opinion the legislation went a bit too far and its time to relax it. agree about the standing bit being brought back but disagree about the atmosphere to some extent. the noise wasn't as loud due to roof coverage etc. if you sat in the old stand the gallowgate didn't sound all that loud but if you were in the gallowgate the atmosphere could be electric. I can accept that for some people the Gallowgate was the old singing area when it was a terrace, but others like me - to a man probably - who were in the old Leazes end with the roof, will tell you that the day the Leazes End was bulldozed and that roof came down, it was never the same. That's very true NE5. I'm a little too young to remember the leazes with a roof but my step brothers used to always extole the virtues of how it used to be when we would stand on the same sparsely populated rotten terraces with half built foundations. I might be wrong but I guess most the core of the roofed leazes end moved to the Gallowgate corner. I have to admit, being a Jesmond born and bred boy I was a little scared of "the corner" and if I was in the Gallowgate, I would always park myself under the scoreboard. The vocal fencing we used to get between those two sections of the crowd was highly amusing.

I have to say, I think this is pretty crap tbh. I didn't find any of it amusing. Kind of like "Little Britian" to me, I just don't get it

You seem to have missed the fact that we've been at the wrong end of the table for a few seasons now, mate - pessimistic ? Is it any wonder ? I'm not into blind optimism as I think thats one of the reasons we keep failing. Phil, you've always been pessimistic, don't try and hide it. I remember from old toontastic days, when things were a little better you were the only one that agreed with me that it wouldn't last It's ok to be pessimistic at least that way we can never be disspointed only happy to be proved wrong.

A little irony in being wrong and not seeing it in an admit you're wrong thread. i dont see doubting keegan as being a big blunder though, given the context of his appointment, i would say it is very lucky that we may possably be wrong, whereas writing off owen was stupid and naive and i'm perfectly happy to admit it. I still dont think its wrong to doubt Keegan, to be honest, whilst im extremely happy to have him in charge of the transfer budget this summer, im still ready to admit that im a little worried about pre season and keegans effectiveness for next season. Im citing Roeder's honeymoon period and subsequent insipd season as an example of where my concerns lie. To be honest i think it's very naive to think that Keegan will be a resounding success after 10 games or so, if so many people had no doubts about Keegans ability then why wasnt he the outstanding choice for appointment on this board post Allardyce? Once again the stuff you spout out completely astounds me !! Comparing KK with Roeder, are you for real ? Roeder had no pedigree, none whatsoever, he did an absolute fantastic job in getting us into Europe but it was clear to enyone who had any sense back then that he was riding the "thank god Souness has gone" bus and that appointing him on a full time would be a disaster. KK on the other hand had previously dragged our club from nothingness to the very summit of English football, his record in the PL for us is amazing, 3rd, 6th, 2nd and halfway to 2nd in the season he quit. NUFC were geniune title contenders when he was in charge last time, no one, not even SBR has managed to achieve that at this club is 70 odd years ! He's earned the right to expect belief from those calling themselves toon fans. Have i put a bee under your bonnet or something?? As far as i can rememebr ive posted 2 responses to you which you've begrudigngly agreed with. Get over yourself. Where have i compared Roeder the manager with Keegan the manager?? In fact you've nicely summed up exactly what my minor concerns are, Roeder benefitted from riding the "thank god Souness has gone" bus well, are you actually that naive and blindsighted to have absolutely no concerns whatsoever that keegan might not be benefitting from the "thank god Allardyce has gone" bus? After 10 games, im happy to admit that yes i am a little concerned, and the only time i will put those concerns behind me is next season when we can see for sure whether Keegan has had the efect we all hope for. Like ive said, im too cynical a supporter (having seen some decent managers appointed and subsequently fail) to think that any manager will be a resounding success irrespective of there pedigree, only the absolutle cream of maangement would just about get my blind faith, and that is at a push. Do you completely disagree with me still? EDIT: There's belief and then theres blind faith, what you've described sounds like the latter im afraid, like ive said, i dont subscribe to that because im not naive. Where are you comparing the two ? Can you read your own posts ffs. "Im citing Roeder's honeymoon period and subsequent insipd season as an example of where my concerns lie." The Roeder situation was completely different to KK's, completely 'citing' it makes absolutely no sense. You seem to be suggesting that you are the only supporter to have been dissapointed by the failings of other managers. Well take a ticket buddy, there are plenty in line ahead of you. I am one of the most pessimistic fans I know, I'm not up to Phil K's level ;P but I often think no matter what we do it'll end in tears. But I've always had faith in KK and always will, he owes us nothing and the least we can do is show some faith in him and trust him that no matter what transpires he'll only have the best interests of NUFC in his mind. As for the buses is concerned, it's not a bad point however, I for one was not too happy at the the time of the sacking of SA and I am not on that bus. Souness was loathed almost unamimously by fans and players a like, I don't think SA had the time to build up that same level of hatred.

Go ta feeling it'll end up just like last year. 3 English clubs one, one non and it's the one non English club that wins it. It seems in recent years it's been the norm that the champions are not necessarily the best team in Europe. The only instance I can recall recently of the best team in Eope winning it was when Barca last won.

A little irony in being wrong and not seeing it in an admit you're wrong thread. i dont see doubting keegan as being a big blunder though, given the context of his appointment, i would say it is very lucky that we may possably be wrong, whereas writing off owen was stupid and naive and i'm perfectly happy to admit it. I still dont think its wrong to doubt Keegan, to be honest, whilst im extremely happy to have him in charge of the transfer budget this summer, im still ready to admit that im a little worried about pre season and keegans effectiveness for next season. Im citing Roeder's honeymoon period and subsequent insipd season as an example of where my concerns lie. To be honest i think it's very naive to think that Keegan will be a resounding success after 10 games or so, if so many people had no doubts about Keegans ability then why wasnt he the outstanding choice for appointment on this board post Allardyce? Once again the stuff you spout out completely astounds me !! Comparing KK with Roeder, are you for real ? Roeder had no pedigree, none whatsoever, he did an absolute fantastic job in getting us into Europe but it was clear to anyone who had any sense back then that he was riding the "thank god Souness has gone" bus and that appointing him on a full time would be a disaster. KK on the other hand had previously dragged our club from nothingness to the very summit of English football, his record in the PL for us is amazing, 3rd, 6th, 2nd and halfway to 2nd in the season he quit. NUFC were geniune title contenders when he was in charge last time, no one, not even SBR has managed to achieve that at this club is 70 odd years ! He's earned the right to expect belief from those calling themselves toon fans.

Keegan had to do trial and error because he came in during the season and hadn't worked with the players before, he could only watch players in training and then pick them with the hope that they would transfer that into the game. As for going 8 games without a win, he took over a losing team and had a nightmare set of games as a baptism, some couldn't see past that, others could. Got to agree with this. He was already getting some incredibly vile and venomous criticism from those porporting to be Journalists, to see some of it also come from a few NUFC fans was just disgusting as far as I was concerned. Before he had even said yes to coming back KK had earned the right to expect that the fans show him some patience, here's a man who clearly loves this club and would always look out for it's best interest, if history had taught us anything, showing loyalty to managers of proven predigree is an absolute no brainer. I have been wrong about countless things as far as NUFC is concerned but I nvever once doubted KK's appointment, even if we had went down he would have retained my support. I was just so happy to see the man back 'home' where he belongs.

I think this long debate is kind of futile. I have no doubt KK has told Mort to do all he can to resign Owen. The real question is will Owen want to stay rather than do we want him, I'm not sure.

I voted centre half but have easily gone for an AM. I agree with Ronaldo that none of our current lot are top 4 quality, but it's an excellent point by Mowen that that hasn't hurt us in the past, Bramble, Dabizas and O'Brien not to mention Bernard, Griffen and Hughes on at full back. Makes you think doesn't it.

I got to agree with that. But I have no doubt barring the Mackems, I detest to my back teeth ManUre most. I agree to some extent about the modern Liverpool fans but I don't dislike the club at all. I remember in the 80's that despite their sheer dominance of England and Europe, their players and Manager (Bob Paisley) went about things with a hell of a lot more diginity than ManUre did a decade or so later and for that reason alone they have my respect.

Please god no !!!! I haven't read all the other posts so it's probably been said already but what the hell would be left in the Football forum, endless threads on 4-3-3 or which WAG would you most like to.... ?? Honestly the fun of the summer is the wild and wacky transfer rumours, the football forum will become about as interesting as compilation of Alan Shearer MOTD punditory. Moving that stuff off to another area could have a significant impact on the forum too, something that might be difficult for the forum to overcome. People who are unaware of this may come to the forum looking for the latest news on who we've been linked with only to be disapointed when the place they look for it doesn't have any, they'll go off some other place to get their fix and probably not return.

As much as I absolutely loathe ManUre, I'd rather any other team (with the exception of the Mackems of course) won the league than them. I really do despise them, however I've got to say they have simply been awesome this season and deserve it. And in terms of us handing them the title by beating Chelsea, I would love that but not for another victory parade at the theatre of arseholes but for our lads, it would be a great way to end the home season.

I'm surprised by some of comments of a few on here, the OP's post is an absolute disgrace even without the benefit of hindsight show an incredible lack of understanding of the problems KK faced and loyality to the person most responsible for the stature of the club today. There are a few people who must be reading what they posted and wished that they could erase it. Some making damn clear that they never wanted KK and others quoting, others bleating about how poorly he was doing despite having the best aquad in the bottom half of the table. It was 8 bloody games !!! Most of which were against damn good sides. For my part, I never wanted the axe to fall, that doesn't mean I didn't loose faith, because I would be lying if I said I didn't have any doubts. I thought the timing of SA's sacking could cost us our PL status but I never put the predicament we were in down to KK. I also thought that not buying during the transfer window was a grave error but that's proved to be a masterstroke, by not buying KK has shown his faith in the squad and we have paid over the odds for average players that the January window tends to throw up.