afar

I dont believe that for a second. Unfortunately none of us know what Ashley's tolerance levels are. I'm sure he didn't achieve what he has acheived in the business world by tolerating failure for too long. Is he dissapointed with results since KK came in, would he have expected more ? I think he probably did. We haven't really had that honeymoon period that most managers usually get, where results pick up after the change, it even happened with Souness and Roeder !! But to suggest that he's going to drop the Axe this soon is just insane, I don't think Ashley is that naive as to not understand that KK will need time and that Ashley himself has played a big part in the predicament we are in today.

In this months edition, thought it may strike up some interesting debate from you Football league followers. We could all be, next season

I have Fox Sports World but outside the Sky Sports News they run, I rarely tune into the channel, the wife limits my football time to the live games on Setanta involving NUFC because she would kill me if she missed any crap like, Hulk Hogan knows best, Some show about parents of sextuplets and that new lie detector show ! I need to buy a cable box for my TV in my computer room, when I do I'll check it out see what I've been missing.

A bit unfair. Why dont you email them, am sure they'll be happy to discuss issues with you. I don't think it is and I have no desire to. I think I remember them from old BBS days, before the world wide web thingy, if they are whom I think they are, they were the same tossers back then too.

Pair of self important tossers tbh. Seem to have self appointed themselves as moral guardians of toon fans being the soopafans they are, they think they have a right to preach to everyone else and lead where others should follow. Of course they are also totally beyond repproach. They were just in the right place at the right when the .com revolution took place, without that URL they would not have anywhere near the amount of hits they get today, and therefore the revenue generation through advertising that allows them to attend all these games and maintain their soopafan personas.

all well and good saying that, but name a bigger goal then. I can't as I said before, I wasn't around, I would have to do some research, which unfortunately I don't have time to do. My problem really is with the title of the thread, nobody really can say what the biggest goal ever was but what we can say is what was the biggest goal we've witnessed in our lifetime. For me that would actually be Cantona's goal against us in 'that' season, if we had won or even drew that game (as we should have becasue we battered them, damn Schmichael !), I'm convinced we would have went on to win the championship. For the biggest goal we've scored, that I have witnessed, I would probably plump for Ned's goal too as being the catalyst to the roller coaster ride we are on now.

Tosh to be honest. There is plenty of evidence from other clubs who are smaller in stature or as big. Such as Man City, Middlesboro, and the Mackems, to set as an example that it is far from certain reality of going down to the 3rd div. In fact I struggle to think of an example of a similar size club that fell to the 3rd level and not come back. Wolves perhaps haven't ever regained their stature but they are back in a position we found ourselves in back then anyway despite their past success they were never the size of club Newcastle is or was. Forest had great success on the pitch under cloughie back in the 70's and 80's but anyone who thinks they are or have ever been a 'big' club, is sadly mistaken. Leeds are down there at the moment but they'll be back in a few years. You have to factor in the uniqueness that NUFC is, we are a one club city in one of England's biggest cities, a city which is also very much a football city, we've probably got the biggest imediate catchment area of any club in the country. We have a glorious history and are rightly (even back then) one of the biggest names. To think that NUFC would not be around in some shape of form is quiet frankly absolutely ridiculous.

Still can't believe everyone is so insular in their thinking here, that the only big goals were scored during their lifetime. Newcastle United has a wonderful history, a history of success which predates the likes of Liverpool, ManUre and Chelsea. I'll repeat what I said previously, saying Kelly's goal, as important as it unquestionably was, is the biggest goal in the club's history, belittles the effort of those great teams. Surely there is a goal back then that ensured we would be crowned as champions of England or won the FA Cup (when it actually mean't something).

To think, when we all were doing our predictions at the start of the season I went for 8th place finish and I thought I was being a bit pessimistic !!

Saying that other teams have on paper a harder run in means very little IMO. I would rather play a team that has secured it's european spot for the season and has nothing much to play for than a team fighting tooth and nail to hang on to their premiership status. The only true way to forcast IMO is based on form and unless we pick up dramitically you can't really look past us in joining Fulham (whom are not a forgone conclusion BTW, although it will be very hard for them) and Derby.

Seconded. No contest. Has to be. I wasn't at the game, but I had my own little bit of human drama. I'd avoided tuning into the latest scores by going out. I switched Grandstand on with 10 minutes of the match to go, and the score came up as 0-0. My heart sank because we needed to win. Then, as I was watching, the score changed on the screen to 1-0. Moments like that don't come round too often. I think anyone who was around pre-Keegan days won't say anything else. Everything that we have achieved since, even if it wasn't rewarded with a trophy hinged on that goal. We could have been Leeds, instead we survived and King Kev used it as a launching pad to turn us into title contenders within a couple of years. Seconded. No contest. Has to be. I wasn't at the game, but I had my own little bit of human drama. I'd avoided tuning into the latest scores by going out. I switched Grandstand on with 10 minutes of the match to go, and the score came up as 0-0. My heart sank because we needed to win. Then, as I was watching, the score changed on the screen to 1-0. Moments like that don't come round too often. I was in the old Milburn paddock, almost in direct line with the line of the shot as it flew in. Was very much one of those slow motion moments where you expect a defender to get in the way or the keeper to reach across. Have never expereienced delirium like it before or since. I was in an executive box in the East stand for that game, how the hell I got myself in there I don't know. But the sense of relief when it went in was huge, the tension was unbearable. I loved Ned, was for me one of our most important signings, sad when KK didn't give him a chance in the Prem but I guess he knew what he was doing cause he brought back Beardsley in his place and the rest is history. Going back to the original question I think most people are wrong, but I can't answer it. I think you needed to be around at the turn of the century (meaning 1900's before someone picks up on that) or in the 20's or 50's to find that biggest goal. I think all football clubs main ambition is to win trophies and therefore by default that the biggest goal must be one which help us reach that aim. Kelly's goal is an important one and allowed us to build a platform for future success but saying it is the most important goal ever in the history of the club, kind of belittles the acheivements of the great Newcastle teams of the past. As another point I also don't buy into the theory that it would have been the end of the club had we gone down, yes we may have gone into administration but we would have recovered, even the smoggies did, they even went on from that disaster to win the first trophy in their history. Perhaps the thread title should be worded "biggest goal in your lifetime" as it is impossible unless your 140 or something and seen every game in the history of West End, East End and Newcastle United to give a definative answer.

What amazes me is that Alan Smith is still reguarded highly by a lot of football fans and coaches and managers. He's really shown very little to justify anyt praise since his ealry days at leeds. If any other high profile striker (remember it was only this season he and Owen led the line for England) had his goal scoring record there would be huge questions asked but the media largely leave him well alone. I would wager if we went down and looked to sell him we would have no problem recoupering much of what we paid for him, from the likes of Portsmouth or West Ham.

I think this is the most sensible post and I agree with almost all of it. I will be much more happy to go into the summer With KK in charge than SA and as the Janitor pointed out this whole end of season could be extremely valuable in helping him assess the quality of the squad. This is all on the proviso that that we stay up and that obviously not a given.

The media is playing a huge part in this. They to some degree are picking the team we play. KK is understandly following the same line as many others that in a time of crisis you need your old heads on the field, those who have proven themselves in the top flight. The media would have a field day if the likes of Owen, Butt, Barton, Smith and Given were dropped in favour of Martins, Lua Lua, Carrol et al. IMO while KK plays the big names then the fault for this season will be deflected from him to his predessors or the players themselves. The minute he starts to pick his 'own' team instead of the stars then it's his reponsibility. He may also think that the pressure of a relegation fight is too much for some of the younger players in the camp and that the so called big names are the only ones that can handle the situation. It's a straight choice between Owen and Martins, because of their physical size, I don't think any manager would pair them together and on reputation Owen always wins, not that that is right.

Although I'm no fan of Owen in any shape or form I don't agree with this. I don't think we can blame him for everything, if you want to point the finger somewhere I would venture that place to be the central midfield spots, their lack of creativity and lack of protection offered to the back four have got us into this mess. Having said that I would much prefer Martins be given the chance ahead of Owen for the remainder of the season. Martins is more likely to score a goal out of nothing than Owen for me and as we are creating nothing then that's what we need.

My predictor saw us drop on goal difference, 34 points, the same for Wigan, Bolton and Reading, but our abysmal record both in front of goal and at the back sending us down. I just can't see us winning more than one game and picking up the odd draw here and there. Even the sole win, I feel is due to the laws of averages. What will be crucial is the state of the other "competitions" going on within the league. Are the likes of ManUre and Arsenal fighting it out for the title till the last day ? Will those teams fighting for Europe go down to the wire, will the likes of Derby and fulham be confirmed down (that might not be a good thing as their players may be either trying to prove themselves to other Prem clubs or play without pressure). As has been pointed out already how much of a part will portsmouth play given their focus will surely be on winning the cup ?

Unfortunately this is true and it will not help us to put our head in the sand. Until we drop into that bottom three (which might not happen until the last week of the season) people will still feel that way. The players and the crowd need to know that we are more likely to go down than we are to stay up, they need to feel that desire and importance to win a game, it may put the pressure on but some players will thrive on that and stand up to be counted. We need to fight and scrap in every game until the end and the sooner we realise the predictment we are in and the need to do this, the better our chances are. Walking around under the misguided notion that we are in no real danger and that there are plenty teams worse than ourselves will just suck us down.

I know I'm pessimistic but I can't see us getting anything from this game no matter whom we choose. The only thing we can do is try to stop our goal difference getting too much worse, because that at the end is something that could kill us. I wouldn't be opposed to playing a team of reserves and kids so as to keep the first team fresh for games that are winnable. Not going to happen though.

On the topic of those who may stay and who may go, for what it’s worth here’s my list: Jumping ship: Zoggy – I think he’s gone in the summer no matter which league we are in. ₤6M Duff – Still lives on past reputation and a saleable asset mid table team will pick up. ₤2.5M Owen – No way in hell, he’ll play for a Championship club, so be no shortage of takers at ₤5 mill. Viduka – Will be poached by a newly promoted team. ₤1M Smith – Still has the reputation (outside NUFC of course) as being a decent player. ₤3M Given – A very saleable asset, wouldn’t be surprised to see him at Villa, Arsenal or Spurs next season. ₤5M. Emre – Another who will probably be on his way no matter what league we are in. ₤2M. Taylor – As much as he wants to stay, I don’t think there will be a lack of interest in him from PL teams, KK really needs to sort out his contract but he’ll be off to a Villa, Everton or Spurs team for around ₤4M. Milner – Another that probably doesn’t want to leave but will be high in demand for around ₤5M. Beye – Will return to Marsielle on the cheap. ₤750k. Cacapa – Will return to France or Brazil for a Free. Enrique – Some Spanish team will look to bring him back on loan for the season. Staying Put: Harper – Has already shown his loyality over a number of years and will relish being No. 1 Butt – Just signed a new extension, I believe, can’t see him wanting to leave and outside the newly promoted clubs don’t see too many takers. Faye – I get the impression he will stick it through and KK will want him around. Carr – I don’t know how many years he’s got left on his contract but he’s not going to give up that fat pay cheque. Barton – Can’t see anyone taking a chance on him and his reputation again. Ramage – Who’s going to take him? Hopefully all the promising kids. I make it that ₤34.25 million, even if all KK gets is the money he generates from sales that should be enough to assemble a team capable of bringing us back up.

I wrote something a few years back that relgation that season could even benefit the club in the long term. My reasoning back then was based on the probability that Shepherd may be forced out. Looking back now and with the benefit of knowing the extent of the financial problems the club has had, relegation would have been a disaster back then. Things however now are different, we can cope financially with going down, in fact we'll be able to both attach the cream of the lower league crop and also be in a financial position to bring them in. To be absouletly honest it's not unfair to suggest that we should EXPECT to come right back up. In terms of loss of players, outside Zoggy, Milner and Taylor, I wouldn't give too hoots about any of the rest of the first team going, Beye and Faye would be a loss but not ireplaceable. I would imagine a lot have relegation clauses built into their contracts, so we'll be pretty powerless to stop them. On the management front I have little doubt KK will stay on to try to rebuild, he's on familiar territory having brought 3 clubs up before, so I have a lot of faith in him doing the job again. The one area of worry is the club ownership, I doubt Ashley will stick around, he'll not want his companies being associated with a loser, and relegation kind of brands you as that. I think he'll decide to sell out but who would buy ? These muted foreign investors don't usually see beyond the premier league. The likes of Wigan, Stoke, Bristol City or Reading will seem a more attractive option to them (should they be in the PL) than us. There is just one man who may be interested in taking over. Someone who would like nothing better than Mike Ashley coming to him to take the club off his hands. Step forward our erstwhile ex chairman Freddie Shepherd ! His return unfortunately would ensure the downward spiral would continue.

I'll be surprised if we don't go down now tbh. There's just no way I can see us winning at the moment

Got to say it's difficult to come up with something right now, but the first half against Villa was encouraging. We passed the ball well, didn't give them time to settle on the ball and had genuine width with full backs over lapping. If we could stustain that type of performance over the 90 against some of the lesser lights in the prem, then we'll stay up. If we don't we almost certainly be playing in the fizzy pop league next year.

I'm really starting to get pissed off with this alarmist attitude of the majority of English based fans about this. Just when I thought NUFC.COM was starting to improve and actually be a place worth visiting, they get in on this mass hysteria too. First off I'm biased, I moved out to Calgary a few months back and have also lived in the US for a number of years but I am still a born and bred Geordie. So I have an huge interest in this. It's hard for those who haven't experience life outside our tiny island to totally appreciate the impact premier league football has around the world. Out here when I tell people where I'm from a large percentage ask me if I support the toon and offer me their sympathies I can literally watch full football matches or football related programming on my TV 24/7, the coverage is excellent if you have the right package, I've watched the last 4 or 5 toon games live. Anyway the point I'm making is that, like it or not the English Premier League has a gobal appeal and the clubs would be missing out and totally insular in their thinking if they ignored those markets. You may think that is money motivated and it probably is but crap like "all supporters will be against this" such has been said by members of national supporters group is complete bollocks, because supporters in other countries will most certainly not be and it's those people who they seem to completely disregard. This particular plan is flawed to the extreme, scheduling in the extra game to ensure everyone is treated fairly would be impossible, who wouldn't rather play Derby or the Mackems rather than Arsenal or ManUre in that "bonus" game. But the concept is absolutely right, giving those fans who aren't fortunate to be born close enough to gallowgate to watch their heros in person, a chance to see them play live in a MEANINGFUL game. The schedule of a cup game abroad may be the only practicle way through this but I don't know I think the example the NFL has set should be applaud and those in power at the premier leauge should at least be exploring the posibility of bringing our beautiful game to the rest of the world. Perhaps the final champ league or Euro spot could be settled by a playoff abroad, something like that. Anyway that's my rant, I'm off my soap box now and off my lunch break too.

Today's game could very well be our season, it's absolutely huge IMO, win and I think some of the self belief will come back that'll see us pull away from any danger, fail to pick up the 3 points and we will be in for one hell of a fight to retain our top flight status.

I love these cliches where people say football has "changed". I didn't realise that the goals were bigger, or teams played with more players .............. Well there something you don't see eveyday, a post from NE5 that you nod in agreement too. I also don't buy into this crap about the game changing, if we play with the same skill as the teams KK produced in the 90's we'll be a match for anyone, I have no doubt about that.