KaKa

We're not having a ding dong. Just a pretty normal and typical discussion about a player on a football forum.

My first point of reference is from watching the games. Whether it's dribbles or take ons with whatever definition is used, I'm not putting Murphy ahead of the likes of Gordon, Madueke, Luis Diaz, Cunha, Neto, Mitoma and Kudus just as some examples of players that weren't in your top 4 ahead of him. It doesn't add up for me. But fine to agree to disagree.

Just off the top of my head Gordon and Madueke would have to be ahead of him and they aren't on your list of top 4. But checking on fbref it lines up more with what I'd expect. So something seems to be off.

Why does this have his successful take ons so low then?

I hope he does. He does some good things in the final third. It's not his fault we don't have any better options there. We definitely need to improve things on that side going forward though, no question about it.

All other players? Shouldn't he be compared against all other wingers? Anyway ... me personally, I'm looking forward to getting in a better all around footballer in the position next year. Because at the moment, every time he gets the ball in our own half I'm sweating bullets.

I'm not sure how you can watch Jacob Murphy and believe he is good at getting past players. I don't know who he's being compared to with what data set you are using but, I'm not having that. If you're happy with him starting down the right that's fine, but he is severely lacking in some pretty significant areas, which leads to us being put under pressure. He just isn't good enough.

Come on man. He's a Premier league winger that can't take a man on, struggles to complete a pass in build up from the back, and can't hold off players or keep the ball when he's under the slightest bit of pressure. Having said that, if you can get him the ball in some space high up the pitch, he's capable of putting in a dangerous ball. I think ideally you'd want him in a 3-4-2-1 system, where he'd play as an overlapping right wing back, which would hide a lot of his issues and accentuate his strengths.

That's brilliant Brentford. Great day for Newcastle in the league.

Nice finish.

Brentford lead! Let's go!

Huijsen got done for pace pretty badly just then.

Get in Wissa! What a season he's having.

So good from Kerkez. Guy is a machine bombing up and down that line.

Keep seeing people on here saying we're never finishing above them, which is really quite pitiful too.

Brentford win please.

Need forum favourites Arsenal to do us a favour tomorrow man. If they beat Chelsea we will be in a great position to jump ahead of both Man City and Chelsea after our next game.

Yes! Get in!

Nerve wracking man!

This Man City vs Brighton game staying a draw would be ideal!

Need Brighton to get that draw man.

I think Jones is very ordinary. I don't see it. I've just quickly gone on one of the Liverpool forums to see what they're saying with the news today, and there's barely any reaction. The quote below from on there, is exactly what I see from him. "Curtis is just not good enough.....consistently. The ratio being something like one decent game in about five/six. He's one of those players that just wallows around, a pass here and there, but seldom affecting the game. He lacks identity on the pitch...a personality...he's sort of nothing." https://www.lfcreds.com/reds/index.php/topic,50471.1058.html

Yeah, I agree, that's all fine. He's a decent squad player for his club. For England though, with some of the other options available ... nah.

Liverpool's midfield 3 is Gravenberch, MaCallister and Szoboszlai. Jones basically rotates in for any of those three, and so has played a good amount of minutes. As far as I can see he's a fill in player. I really don't see what he adds as a stand out ability. Imagine us looking for a midfielder this summer, out of those 5, and the choice being Curtis Jones. I'd be at a loss for words.