merlin

Totally agree with this - I cannot understand why some fans persist in sticking their heads in the sand and pretending everything is OK when it isn't - as you say, TWD, losing 6 games - 4 at home - in half a season in the Championship is NOT impressive esp when other chasing clubs are showing little sign of showing similar lapses in form. As I recall, quite a number of fans used to harangue those who complained about Pardew when it was clear that the guy was a con-man and these same people are now trying to shut down debate about an aspect of the team's performances which is clearly a concern and using the 'In Rafa we trust' mentality to stop others examining the whole thing. NOBODY on here has equated Rafa with the likes of McClaren, Carver and P45Due and nor should they, but it is perfectly reasonable to question why the manager plays a certain way if it shows signs of not working, or why he makes certain decisions during games. I have never personally criticized him at all this season because he clearly has done a great job in a short time but I DID question why it took him so long to bring Mitro on during the Weds game because it was clear that their physical approach was giving Gayle no chance. Many fans took KK to task when he sold Andy Cole to Man U in 1995 but Keegan went out and talked to them and explained his decision..he also said that he knew what the consequences were if he got it wrong, so NO manager is above being questioned. Any honest fan who has seen us play, esp at home this season, will admit that the football has hardly been scintillating but when you need to get results people will accept that. What does make them uneasy is when the results are becoming patchy, especially in home games ; anyone with any sense knows that you cannot lose more than a certain number of games if you want/need to win leagues or gain promotion because the competition is intense. As things stand now, we are roughly where we deserve to be and that is NOT at the top of the league because Brighton have been more consistent especially at home. Had it not been for Darlow, our goal difference advantage would have been eaten away because we could easily have conceded 4 against Weds and Brighton scored 3 without reply last night. Other clubs are also showing consistent performances, Reading and Leeds among them and Derby have also put a good run together although it remains to be seen if that continues under McClaren. This league is FAR from settled and the sooner many fans get it into their heads that we face a battle to avoid the lottery of the Play-offs, the better...because we do.

If we lose this game - or even draw it - we can start having to worry about the Play-offs... Give over man, half the season to go yet. We've won the most games and scored the most goals. Things aren't perfect but we are at the top for a reason, we have the right manager and our squad are a good bunch Read - my - lips....we have lost FOUR home games and the season is only half over...good sides would not lose more than 4 games at home over the whole season, let alone half of it. Our goal diff advantage was because of one freak result at QPR - how many goals did we concede at SJP whilst losing to the 4 sides who beat us...? also, if Darlow hadn't been in such excellent form yesterday, we could have conceded FOUR without reply. We are top UNLESS Brighton win tonight and then we won't be...fail to beat Forest and they will stay there too - that is also for a reason(maybe they have better players in crucial positions...?). Our players may be a 'good bunch' as far as you are concerned, but they are only a 'good bunch' if they get the club back into the PL - where it should be - next season. Too many of the good bunch are not good enough on the field and won't be at the club much longer. We DO have an excellent manager but he is not a miracle worker and can only work with the material at his disposal. We got beat, calm down man. We will all be singing their praises again in the not too distant future. As for losing games, we could lose loads more this season and still go up. We are a good side at this level, despite the games we've lost. It's December, the question of who is good enough or not is for another day If you think we could lose 'loads' more and still go up you are not watching the football most of us on here were watching yesterday...and have watched for most of this season. I disagree with your analysis.

If we lose this game - or even draw it - we can start having to worry about the Play-offs... Give over man, half the season to go yet. We've won the most games and scored the most goals. Things aren't perfect but we are at the top for a reason, we have the right manager and our squad are a good bunch Read - my - lips....we have lost FOUR home games and the season is only half over...good sides would not lose more than 4 games at home over the whole season, let alone half of it. Our goal diff advantage was because of one freak result at QPR - how many goals did we concede at SJP whilst losing to the 4 sides who beat us...? also, if Darlow hadn't been in such excellent form yesterday, we could have conceded FOUR without reply. We are top UNLESS Brighton win tonight and then we won't be...fail to beat Forest and they will stay there too - that is also for a reason(maybe they have better players in crucial positions...?). Our players may be a 'good bunch' as far as you are concerned, but they are only a 'good bunch' if they get the club back into the PL - where it should be - next season. Too many of the good bunch are not good enough on the field and won't be at the club much longer. We DO have an excellent manager but he is not a miracle worker and can only work with the material at his disposal.

If we lose this game - or even draw it - we can start having to worry about the Play-offs...

Agree that we have faith in Benitez...that wasn't in doubt and as you say, Ashley has to back him in the market. The problem he faces is that Jan is a bad time to have to go for crucial signings ; clubs do not want to lose players at this time of year unless they either want rid of them or, like Chelsea, can afford to loan out players or sell those that other sides would keep. Yes, we want promotion above anything else but losing 4 home games already could put us in danger of facing the lottery of the play-offs unless this is stopped in the second half of the season.

Can't agree with what you said about KK BG - OK, he had an extra month to save us from the old Third Div when he arrived in Feb 92 and Rafa would have kept us up if given the same time, but KKs side went for a record number of games unbeaten in the league from the start of the following season and by March were well on their way to the title. He didn't have the money to spend that Rafa has either. AND we didn't lose 4 games at home all season, never mind just halfway through it...if asked to put money on the 92/93 side to win the title in Christmas 92 I would have done it...I can't say the same about the current side.

After ANOTHER home defeat its a 7.5 for me now....lose again on Friday and that may be under scrutiny again....

Well, that's one down and we didn't do to well against Blackburn at SJP did we...? If we don't beat Forest on Friday, you might have to rethink that statement..!

Saved us from a 0-3 home embarrassment in my opinion - two really great saves and he didn't deserve to be on the losing side. Very impressed with the lad, the one bright spot in the whole performance.

I think that is an accurate comment - I'm beginning to wonder whether we are seeing the 'Turkeys not voting for Christmas' syndrome because half of these players - maybe MORE than half - must know they will be out of the door if the club goes up.

It also lacks quality in vital positions...Gayle is far and away the best striker but take him out and what have you got..only Mitro. We have seen today that without Shelvey, there is little real creativity in the m/field and apart from Atsu, we lack pace on the flanks. We DO have a BIGGER squad than most Champ sides but some of them have better players, or players on a par with ours, in crucial positions. Everyone has been waiting for Brighton & Co to get a run of injuries thinking that our so-called Super Squad will be able to climb away from them after that but so far it hasn't happened and teams have looked at us over the season and worked out how to frustrate us at SJP...doesn't anyone think that teams used to try this with KK's side in 92/93..? Of course they did but the side had far more guile, passing ability and pace than this team/squad does. KK had the benefit of no transfer window constraints so he was able to sign Cole and Sellars in the second half of the season and this made the side by far and away the best in the then Second Div. Rafa either has to sign players before the end of Jan or go with what he has and that is looking less feasible by the week.

Another hugely disappointing home performance and another loss...this team is unable to cope with teams like Wednesday, Wolves, Huddersfield and Blackburn at SJP. These sides work hard, get men behind the ball and compete vigorously in m/f...a bit like NUFC AWAY from home with one difference - they break more quickly from a defensive situation and today Wednesday could have won this game 1-3 had Darlow not saved our skins twice in successive chances. We are slow to build up attacks at home and apart from Gayle's shot in the first half, well saved and tipped on to the post/bar by their keeper, I cannot remember us creating any real chances which forced similar saves to Darlow's from their keeper. We wondered how the side would cope without Shelvey and the answer was far from palatable - there was very little creativity in the forward passing and far too much passing sideways along the back 4, something we used to specialize in when P45Due was in charge ; we could have played like that all day and Wednesday would have mopped it up. I have refrained from criticising Rafa at all this season because he has done a brilliant job in a short time but he must hold his hands up for not bringing Mitrovic on until 10 min from time - Gayle was anonymous apart from his near miss in the first half and their defence/midf dealt with him promptly and physically. Mitrovic would have provided at least a more physical presence which might have given them problems...should have been on at least 25 mins earlier. I don't think anyone can keep saying 'we'll still win the league' after these home defeats - unless Rafa can sign someone of real talent in midfield(NOT an easy task in January)we are going to struggle at home. OK, Huddersfield and Wednesday were and are expected to be among the promotion chasers, but Blackburn and Wolves are not so we have dropped valuable home points. Forest will come to SJP full of heart after Wednesday's win and will aim to frustrate team and crowd once again. If we lose again, the crowd, who have been great, are going to get restless and away sides know this. Our win over Norwich has been put into perspective by their results since and we are now only one of about 5 or 6 sides who are going to promotion with a realistic chance of getting it. Our favourites rating by the bookies will start to slip if we lose on 30th and Rafa is unable to get the midfield creator and pacey winger we need. Not the Christmas present we wanted but not unexpected in view of the home record this season.

Well I remember the song during his reign was "we're s*** and we're sick of it". You'd be hard pushed to find any Newcastle fan who wasn't happy to this day that Allardyce was sacked by NUFC. Looks like it will be another miracle job when he keeps Crystal Palace up even though nobody thinks they should be down where they are with their current squad anyway. I note that the awful BBC fail to mention that when KK took over from Allardyce, he not only improved the football but saved the club from the relegation fate it would have endured that season, had Allardyce remained as manager...only the engineered departure of KK the following September, was the reason for the club being relegated. Still, the BBC acting true to form and only putting their own slant on events...as usual.

A Very Merry Christmas to all fans from Down Under - let's hope this is the last Christmas in which the club are in the Championship for many years...here's to Rafa-led success in 2017.

I had some wonderful times as a young guy when nearly ALL SJP was standing - as long as the areas are constructed properly and well stewarded, there is a lot more involvement in the game and you feel more a part of it. There is great excitement when a goal is scored as people jump around more and celebrate more enthusiastically. It CAN be dangerous...witness the Ibrox disaster in the early 70s but I was in SJP for the Fairs Cup final v Ujpest Dosza in May 69(Gallowgate End)and we must have moved six terraces down as the crowd swayed after the first goal by Moncur.Nevertheless, when you are young those things do not bother you and with 60,000 in the ground it was a great experience that will live with me forever. I would back a return to properly-organized standing in certain areas of the ground.

There is no way that anyone will pay 810m for NUFC.....very few clubs in the PL would approach that figure and whilst we have a fantastic support base, we are not viewed as 'winners' by overseas fans although that could change. I reckon Ashley would snap anyone's hand off if they bid 500m, let alone 810 and 400m would be his starting point.

Pardew's fate was as predictable as the sun coming up from the East....I said he was going to flatter to deceive after he was appointed - his CV with previous clubs showed that and he has been as reliable as clockwork in that sense. We are well rid of him as we knew we would be - I think the anger on this and other forums is partly at the arrogance and prejudice of the idiot Palace fans who dismissed us as thick Geordies, deluded, etc etc. They are now having to eat a large juicy slice of Humble Pie and by the remarks some of them have made, they have neither enjoyed it or learned anything from it. Many southerners are biased against northern clubs and esp NUFC because despite the Press running us down, we continue to make them look pygmies when it comes to volume of support and size of stadium...only Arsenal have really outmatched us and only then because they had better management and built a bigger stadium which we would certainly match if we had had a fraction of their success over the years. Palace are a small club and always will be.....forget them.

That isn't the problem - the problem is that you are very likely to be accused of racism if someone of a certain disposition THINKS you are being racist. The fact is that the vast majority of people have had enough of PC and having the thought Police on their tail all the time ; Brexit, Trump and the fact that here in Australia a new Australian Conservative Party is likely to be set up after 40% - yes, 40% - of the voters said they no longer believed in Democracy...22% did not identify with any political party. Politicians, the Establishment generally, and the media...totally out of touch with the people.

The one problem I see with Shelvey's game is that he often slows play down....note how we quickened the passing and movement against Forest just after he was sent off and scored. Quicker passing and moving is the key to breaking down massed defences in the Championship.

The FA, like many UK institutions, are so politically correct that they are ridiculous - they are not a credible outfit in many ways and this verdict is little surprise. Look at how soldiers are being hounded by Ambulance chasers years after the events they were involved in took place...the FA are the same as the legal profession.

Provided Rafa stays and Ashley continues to support him, we will be a FAR more attractive proposition than all PL clubs bar the Top 6....stability will be the key, but if top players are sure that this will continue they will want to play for both NUFC and Rafa..he has won more than any current PL manager and we are capable of filling a 75,000 stadium if we start doing well. Remember how we signed really good players under KK when we had just escaped from relegation to the Third div 2 years previously... we can do that again but ONLY if we show ambition and continuity...we would blow the likes of Leicester and Southamptom away quite frankly.

Not a chance they would sell to us at this point, and almost certainly not if both clubs were promoted unless the player demanded a move.

Not true about the badge being difficult to mass produce properly....I happen to know that the current badge, used since at least 1992, was sourced for sale by a supplier to the club from a manufacturer in Taiwan who produced a perfect sample from a piece of artwork without any problem at all. The club sold thousands of these, some even in full enamel for special visitors, from 1992 until 1997 when the contract was given to a UK manufacturer who continued the design. If there IS a new badge design, it will be purely a decision made by the club for financial reasons, i.e. they will sell more of them because it IS new.

So you are saying that we aren't going to lose any more games...you sure about that ?

Quite reasonable for people to think that Brighton may win the title - we have been far too vulnerable at home and if we start dropping away points as well we would soon fall behind if they kept on getting results. Losing 5 games so far, three at SJP, is NOT good enough for a side wanting to be champions because you are relying on teams like Brighton and Reading to keep dropping points too and unless Brighton have a series of injuries which would show up their smaller squad strength, they could well take advantage of any further stumbles we have at home OR away. The loss of Shelvey may give them a lift because they know that he is the one player we will have difficulty in replacing for several weeks. The game with Sheff Weds is crucial - it will not be easy, with or without Shelvey and in my view we cannot afford to lose any more home games ; apart from the points loss, it will start creating unease among the fans. Promotion from this league is NOT easy and it will be a tough grind from now until May.