merlin

If we lose this game, relegation is on the cards for sure - the other teams around are picking up points and the loss of another 3 home points will put the club well and truly on its backside. its about time people began to face reality - the club is in a mess on AND off the field, and it will take a huge effort to stay up if we are still in the bottom 3 at the end of November. I NEVER predict results where NUFC are concerned, but I will be surprised if we get more than 1 point from this game and NOT surprised if we lose.

You mean they thought their manager wasn't up to the job so replaced him, hardly similar to our situation was it? A similar situation to ours was at West Ham, manager walks out but their fans do to sensible thing which was to be patient and wait to see what the management team do about replacing him, now West Ham have a new manager in place that the fans seem happy with and the old manager is forgotten. Our fans on the other hand decided to take a different route by holding protests outside the ground, waving bedsheets around with incorrect spelling which fans all over the country had a good laugh at, they then decided to try and force the owner to sell the club and call for nobody to buy any pies or programmes until he did, with a few adults seen shouting at young kids for buying one, then when the owner does agree to sell a few of them set up a pressure group a realise one ridiculous statement after the other telling any potential new owner that we won't put up with any of their s*** and threaten to write to all major club sponsors if the club isn't sold by the end of the season, this gets picked up by one the Internets most popular websites for football kit news which makes us a laughing stock again. Then they wonder why the club is unstable at the moment and not like those clubs who's management teams were allowed to get on with things when decisions had to be made. The manager walked out because the Board either changed the terms of his position regarding buying/selling players or simply promised him players that didn't materialise - this happened BECAUSE the club was being mismanaged from the top ; KK has a reputation for this sort of action but , as you well know, both Fergie & Wenger backed his stance - they thought his position had been made untenable... The reaction of the fans was to be expected, not only because it was Keegan, but because this was yet ANOTHER NUFC disaster in the making, following 4 years of blunders from the previous regime ; also, because Ashley had demonstrated a cavalier attitude to the resignation by going to the USA instead of sorting it out.. Curbishley was a former West Ham player, but in no way as popular as KK at Newcastle - their fans were not too bothered about him leaving, and they had NOT had the turnover in managers that NUFC fans had seen over the past 5 years ; there is really no comparison between the two situations. Whatever anyone's views about some of the Chavs who paraded for the Sky cameras(and they ARE a laughing stock), the majority of the club's fans believe that Ashley mishandled the situation - and they are quite right. He will now have to pay the price, either by coughing up to stop the club being relegated, or by having to accept a lower price than he wants to sell the club.

This is quite right - they also have better players than us, despite some on here thinking that Guthrie is as good as Modric... Redknapp has done a good job in his first few games, and obviously instilled confidence in his players ; their ability is now coming out...you don't beat Liverpool if you are a bad side - lets see how NUFC do against Villa......

Don't you mean the one where he stood behind a badly-organised wall and watched as Elano's shot tore past him, despite the fact that he had a full view of what Elano was going to do? Or even the Villa game where he was virtually a spectator when Carew & Co hit the side for 6 ?? Etc Etc.... I note that KK had Harper back between the sticks for all the crucial run-in games after that....

Not now he isn't - that's my opinion, and there are others who also think so - remember that thread last season about 'Given beaten easily again from long rang'.....!?

Last word on this - if you are travelling into many foreign countries(including Australia & Malaysia) you have to complete an Arrivals Form for the Immigration authorities ; on this form, it asks you to enter the country of your nationality 'AS IT STATES ON YOUR PASSPORT'.... this means that you have to put in 'BRITISH CITIZEN' if you have a UK Passport, so O'Neill and Fergie would have to put that down on the form..therefore, they must be British UNLESS somehow NI Citizens now have something different in their passports which I doubt.

Of all the signings last summer, KK seemed to be more enthusiastic about Guthrie than many other signings. Not really sure why you are using Keegan's name to slag off Guthrie in this thread. 'using Keegan's name to slag off Guthrie..' ! If I wanted to 'slag off' Guthrie, I would do so and I don't need to invoke Keegan to do THAT - I have a mind of my own and if you think my comments were 'slagging' off Guthrie, you mustn't have heard what some of our fans say about players who have been TWICE as good over the years.... If I was going to slag him off, I would simply say he was rubbish - and I wouldn't care what anyone else thought either..! He isn't rubbish, but neither, in my opinion, is he sufficiently good to warrant a permanent first team place in a club as big potentially as NUFC.I said what I thought, and I stick by it... Neither do I see the logic of saying he would be worth 5-6m'if he was Foreign'...isn't it usually the case that English players cost more and that is why many clubs started buying foreign players in the first place, so how can it be that he would be worth more than he cost NUFC if he was Foreign? It doesn't stack up.

As with almost everything in its history, Newcastle United has been on the market at the wrong time. In the current climate nobody with money is going to pay over the odds for ANYTHING ; there was a housing auction in Cardiff recently where 200,000 pound properties were not being sold, even for 30,000 ; NOBODY bought at the Reserve prices and a few sales were made afterwards when private deals were made between seller & buyer i.e., the sellers dropped their price through the floor to get some cash.... When Ashley selling his 'asset' for a profit on what he paid for it a year ago, then its like someone trying to sell a house for the same inflated price as last year...its not going to happen unless a VERY rich person wants a plaything that's also going to cost an arm & a leg to run... They will all be holding him to ransom, knowing that he will either have to bite the bullet and reduce the price OR bite the bullet in another way and face trying to run the club again with an enormous spend in the offing to escape relegation ; he will also have to take a chance on Kinnear, at least until the end of season, and that means more risk of money being spent on players a new manager wouldn't want.... Potential buyers have all the aces - if Ashley sticks out, they walk away ; there are other clubs who will need big finance soon, and some are very big names...Buyers know that Ashley has dug himself a huge hole and there is a risk that, in his chancer style, he will be tempted to continue digging ! His luck has run out at this point and his only gamble left(IF he wants to get the 300m that is being bandied about), is that he hangs on, tries to turn the club round, either with Kinnear or(more likely) a new manager. Either way, he is going to have to eat a large slice of Humble Pie... I believe that its looking increasingly as if Ashley is going to have to keep the club and this could mean even more problems because he will, in my opinion, have to get rid of Wise & Llambias ; no decent potential manager is going to want to work with them..KK and the LMA will see to that.. Watch for Shearer coming in, poss with Rob Lee, the board being cleared out...on the other hand, there COULD be a surprise late buyer by the end of the month - time will tell.... For Yorkie's benefit, 'Due Diligence' basically means that any potential buyer has to satisfy themselves that the club IS worth the money Ashley wants ; that there are no skeletons in the cupboard, esp financial ones(Ashley failed to do this properly, or he would have known about the club's big debts before he bought). This usually means getting access to the books/accounts etc and letting your Accountants pore through it all. There are more aspects to it, but that is basically what happens.

Best Goalkeeper? Over what period? Maybe over the past 10 years - and now, I still think Harper is as good... I think you would find that its only young fans who have voted Given as the club's best-ever keeper.

Someone on here recently compared him to Modric - I'm still laughing.....! A bog-standard midfielder at best who wouldn't have got anywhere NEAR KK's sides of 94-97 - even Batty looked like a creative genius in comparison. The closest comparison of any of KK's midfielders in the Prem was probably Bracewell and he was on the way down then...

If it wasn't part of Britain, he wouldn't get a British passport - and that is what he will have. Also, because Scotland(which actually has MORE independent powers than N.I.- Tax-raising etc ) is classed as being at least as devolved as NI, are you then saying that SAF is 'not British'? He(and Alex Salmond) might argue that he WASN'T, but by your Passport definition, he IS British because Scotland is NOT mentioned as being a separate country.. I still maintain that O'Neill is technically British, even though he himself might deny that... As Wacko says, if he gets an Irish Passport , then he becomes Irish and therefore, technically foreign.

Modric even with Guthrie ?? Coloccini even with Woodgate? Bentley even with Jonas(did you see his goal the other night!?)? Doesn't see pretty f---ing even to me - small bet on who will finish higher at season's end...?

Love the way you write half a page listing all of Martins faults but at the end grudgingly admit we still need him Love the way you ignore the fact that beggars can't be choosers - that is what I was saying, and NUFC ARE beggars in today's Prem ; IF Martins scores 20 goals and saves us from relegation, THEN I may agree he is a top Prem striker...Do you see this happening ? Right now, we even need Ameobi , but only because we have nobody else..get the picture..!??

I have never(nor will)changed my mind about Martins ; in my opinion, he is NOT a top class striker, and wherever he plays, will struggle to get more than 10-15 goals a season. Has pace, but very little tactical awareness of how to use it ; not big enough to hold the ball up front as a target man, and distribution is erratic ; has excellent athletic qualities, but not the footballing intelligence about how to use those qualities. Generally, he is not a player who has much awareness of his colleagues' movements and this does not create opportunities for others to score goals rather than just him. He WILL score some spectacular goals, but not enough tap-ins/opportunist efforts . When Supermac joined NUFC in 1971, he was 21 years old ; many said he only had a good left peg, and a powerful shot ; also that he was unproven in the top division, reputedly the reason why Man U were slow to move for him.... By the time he was Martins' age, he was probably the most feared striker in the First division and had scored 30 goals in his first season, helping Newcastle to avoid relegation. Yes , he had Hibbitt and Tony Green to give him ammunition, and Tudor(a willing workhorse) to draw defenders off him, but he still improved ALL aspects of his game, from heading to using his right foot. Much of this also applies to Owen, who was an established Prem striker by the age of 19. Martins has NOT shown anything like that improvement in his time at Newcastle and in my opinion, won't. In fact, if I was given the choice of a 26 year old David Kelly, or Martins, I would take Kelly - he would offer far more to the team all round. However, I DO accept that he is the best we are likely to get for some time, and until a better player is prepared to join NUFC, they have to make the best use of him, and his comittment to the club seems good.

He's not in any position to make those sort of demands at this time, whether he stated that or not - his record so far is only marginally better on points gained than Redknapp's ; if you took it over the first 2 games of each manager's new tenure, it doesn't stand up at all.... However, it has to be acknowledged that Spurs have better players than NUFC - that's a fact, whether some on here like it or not . Kinnear was on the scrap heap before his fortunate break with NUFC and he certainly wouldn't have been in the running for either this or the Spurs job on a full-time basis ; IF he starts teh club on an amazing run which gets us into the comfort zone by Christmas, then he might have a case ; otherwise he should be glad of this opportunity and get on with the job.

O'Neill isn't, he's British Kinnear and Keane are Irish O'Neill isn't British. He is, however, a citizen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The EU hasn't YET got its way about uniting the whole of Ireland - O'Neill is an Ulsterman, and as such, still classed as British ; until the six counties are part of the Irish Republic, N.I.is still part of Britain.

Agreed - I've said this on at least 2 occasions before ; he looks good, but there is little end product. He is going to have to attack defenders in the box and score at least 5 goals this season before I will say he is a successful Prem winger ; if you were MON and NUFC offered him in a swap for Young, would you accept..??

The rush to obtain foreign managers was largely pushed by Arsene Wenger's success at Arsenal, and then, to a lesser degree, Jose Mourinho's stint at Chelsea. Wenger has been at Arsenal now for over 10 years, and to me, is not really a 'Foreign' manager at all now - he is even on record as bemoaning the fact that not enough English youngsters are coming through... Also, because he has been there so long, he is almost a 'part of the furniture' in the Prem.. Mourinho had worked with SBR prior to coming to England, and comes from a notoriously pro-English country in Portugal, so settled well and had a good understanding of the Prem . Of the others, Benitez has done well(although the Scousers whinge about lack of titles..) - Ramos was a flash-in-the-pan, probably not helped by his poor command of English, although not being fluent in Dutch or Portuguese didn't affect SBR's success in those countries... The most successful foreign manager before Wenger really hit the heights was Houllier at Liverpool . If you look back over the years, no Foreign manager has equalled Bob Paisley in quality of trophies won and none has managed to beat Sir Alex Ferguson's title wins in the Prem. Also, none have taken on a small English club like Clough did with Derby & Forest, and win the European Cup. I disagree that a foreign manager is a pre-requisite for success - its just that many of the last generation of English/British managers were not especially good...NOW, however, we have some very good ones coming through ; Hughes, Keane(yes, I know...Mackems, Irish etc),Southgate, Bruce(to a lesser degree) and, although he has a very difficult job because of finance restrictions, Mowbray. Of the older ones, you have to say that Redknapp has done a decent job at smaller clubs, Moyes is in between these groups in age, but has done well at Everton given that he also is not rolling in cash... O'Neill, despite the bias of some on here, has also done well at 3 different clubs. All in all, its hard to justify saying that a Foreign manager will guarantee success any more than a British or Irish one will ; its the calibre of man that counts AND the back-up system he works with. Incidentally, the argument that clubs that do well domestically used to struggle in Europe is not always true - NUFC know that better than anyone after winning the Fairs Cup by beating teams like Feyenoord, Sporting Lisbon, Real Zaragoza and Ujpest Dosza(who had previously hammered Leeds, the top English side of the era...part of the reason for Newcastle's success was the terrific aerial ability of Wyn Davies and the scoring feats of Robson coupled with a tough, organised defence in which 3 of the Back 4 were Internationals of high repute, but also that there was more physical contact allowed in those days.. Newcastle qualified for that tournament by finishing 10th, and getting in under the 1 club, 1 city rule.

And Dalglish. Like I said, in the context of not having everyone fit or fully fit, this is far from the best we've had since we got into this league. Our first choice squad with everyone fit and playing well is decent enough. Look at the results under Dalglish and compare them to this side's efforts - we were never relegation material under Dalglish. We certainly are now, whether people like it or not.

Look at what he cost - he's NOT a top midfielder and sums up much of the side ; decent, but nothing outstanding. You don't get players of his age on the cheap if they are any good.

What? Every time he plays he delivers plenty into the box, its not his fault that no one's there to finish them off. He has only ONCE put over a cross that reached an unmarked Newcastle player in the opponents' box - and that was before he got injured ; YES, he carries the ball well up to the area but his final ball is often lacking in direction or accuracy - he should also be trying to get into shooting positions himself, esp as he knows we are limited in both numbers and quality up front ; he's an Argentine International, for goodness' sake.. wheres the need to have a go at Jonas in this thread, he wasn't on the pitch long enough to break a sweat man. He hasn't even played 5 games yet so i think the needlessly critcal judgement should be reserved until we see a bit more of him. Its a general judgment on his total appearances, not just this match - and don't forget how many goals he got for his previous club - 2 last season, wasn't it.!??

What? Every time he plays he delivers plenty into the box, its not his fault that no one's there to finish them off. He has only ONCE put over a cross that reached an unmarked Newcastle player in the opponents' box - and that was before he got injured ; YES, he carries the ball well up to the area but his final ball is often lacking in direction or accuracy - he should also be trying to get into shooting positions himself, esp as he knows we are limited in both numbers and quality up front ; he's an Argentine International, for goodness' sake..

A good post, Wullie - agree with most of this. Some really poor sides in early 80s and the side relegated in 77-78 was also poor. This team is, as I said on my post about the game, is only half-built and it shows ; there are crucial problems all over the field, but most critically, in midfield(no dominating player or pace)and up front(no decent target man, Martins too erratic, Owen too often injured). The side is unbalanced and lacks real motivation - these qualities, even more than lack of many quality players, get sides relegated...uncertainty off the field can be a killer, as it was in 1977, so things need sorting out quickly, but the financial climate is against it.

The only thing I got wrong about this match(when I predicted defeat on another thread earlier this week)was the scoreline - I though they would win by 2 clear goals and that Cisse would cause the Newcastle defence problems ; but for the woodwork stopping Cisse scoring twice, I would have been spot-on, but it doesn't make the result any easier to stomach... There is no question that they are a better side than NUFC at the moment, and they proved it on the day - they had 60% of possession in the second-half, so arguments about us 'competing well' etc etc are just grasping at straws ; We could have lost 4-2 quite easily - and that's allowing for a bad miss by Ameobi. We lack real bite in the middle of the field, and we lack real pace up front - these are the areas where they were superior ; they won more of the ball, constantly caught us on the break in the second half, and in short, they wanted it more. Jonas LOOKS good when he's on the ball, but I've yet to see him do/cause any damage in the opposing penalty area ; Duff flatters to deceive and Ameobi is, as we know, not a Prem striker. Too many Newcastle players were either caught in possession, or gave the ball away ; the Free Kick from which they scored the winner was conceded by Butt(another rash tackle)but he had little option - the attack came from a tame surrender of the ball within the Newcastle half of the field.....Taylor continues to be caught on his heels by forwards. The Sunderland players were more fired up for the game(hardly surprising after 28 years of failure at home in Derby games), but I think that they have displayed this characteristic all season ; Keane has clearly done a good job in the motivation department and although people like Cisse & Diouf are not long term prospects, they retain enough ability to be an asset and improve the side as a whole. We looked what we are - a side with some quality players(not enough) in the middle of an off-field crisis who are toothless when Owen is out. The side was only half-built and the results of this are plain for all to see - now that Redknapp is taking over Spurs, I expect them to improve considerably and, if we are not careful, we will be rooted at the bottom of the table by the time the club is taken over. It is going to be a really nail-biting finish to the season, and this game has proven that, unlike one reply to my forecast last week; 'The only way is UP'....NOT. It is UP when you deserve it, and NUFC are where they deserve to be as a side.

It was the only decision they could make - he played the ball from side-tackle.