merlin

A quality player and a poor manager - failed at every club bar Chelsea and deserved the boot for his terrible relations with players at NUFC ; Shearer, Lee, Hamman, etc etc. Signed failures like Marcelino, Maric etc., 11m quid wasted on those 2 alone - Goma another, and worst of all for what he turned out to be, DYER.

I don't think even MON can grant Milner a decent turn of pace (or the ability to cross into the box). One of their coaches, John Robertson I think, is supposed to be excellent at coaching wingers and is partly responsible for Ashley Young's development as a player. This is very true, and Robertson himself was never a speed merchant but he became a crucial cog in Cloughie's Forest team that won the European Cup - do NOT underestimate what MON and Robertson could do to improve Milner's game - I would be willing to have a bet that he will be a full England player within 3 years..

Well said, sir ! Absolutely spot-on !!

Should have been gone - WON'T back him, but wouldn't boo him in a NUFC strip. Very bad for both club reputation and dressing room that he's still at NUFC.

Lucky to get 'NIL' - completely and utterly outclassed... This game was in some ways, a blessing in disguise, for it showed up, for all to see, the results of the collective folly that has been the running of NUFC over the past 4-5 years, INCLUDING this one. Arsenal were the perfect example of a stable, well-run club which I now have serious doubts that NUFC can become. There was a huge gulf in class AND organisation between the sides and it is no exaggeration to say that we could have been looking at a 6 or 7 goal defeat ; we conceded Free-Kick after free-kick at the edge of our box, and but for some excellent saves by Given and some wayward finishing by Arsenal we would have been the laughing stock of the Prem this morning. The midfield were a joke when it came to keeping possession, and as soon as the ball was given away, Arsenal put us under immediate pressure with some superb movement on and off the ball ; we were passed to death by them.. As was expected, Ameobi constantly failed to lead the line as a target man of his size and(reputed) ability should ; how anyone thinks this guy is worth a place in a top half Prem side is beyond me and, I suspect, quite a number of fans who have seen the good, bad and the ugly of forwards at NUFC over the past 30 years ; Owen had one real chance, and Ameobi blocked this with his heel, but even if Owen had scored, we would still have lost. I now hope Owen leaves, and leaves quickly - the lad gets so much stick on this board, and among other NUFC fans, that it is in his best interests to go - I would love to see the reaction if he went to Man U on a cut-price deal, say 7-8m, and then scored 20 goals, which he certainly would if he stayed fit for 20 games with them.... N'zogbia was disappointing, not for the penalty, as I think he was hard-done by(the Ref was certainly a homer), but he gave possession away and ran into trouble far too much as he is prone to do - I would rather HE had been the one to go than Milner, and I suspect that, if pressed , KK would say the same... Jonas did his best, but was closed down quickly by their midfield/defence ; Our defence did OK considering the amount of pressure they were subjected to and Given(credit where its due)saved us from humiliation. Enrique did OK until his hamstring went(ANOTHER injury..) and I don't think Beye was properly fit, but played because there was no choice for KK.. There is now a desperate need for new players - if these are not forthcoming, then our results over the first 3 matches will be a mirror to our points total at the season's end - we will be lucky to exceed 45. Hull have just taken a pasting by Wigan, and hopefully will be a bit less confident as a result for next week's game - that can work 2 ways though, and they may be coming with hurt pride so we can't afford to take them lightly. The worst thing about this match was the comparison between the two clubs, NOT just the teams - we are LIGHT-YEARS behind them in every way, and it is very disappointing to older fans who remember us turning them over a few times during KK's first spell as manager and in previous years.. I even have a bad feeling that the current Mackem side would not have lost so heavily or easily - we have a HUGE amount of work to do, and if people on here want to kid themselves that we don't that's up to them - I prefer to face reality, something NUFC have avoided for a number of years.....

Usual straw-grasping - our points haul from the first 3 matches will be reflected over the season...what is so great about that? People are now accepting that we were playing 'The Mighty Arsenal' so we just had to turn up, take our medicine, and wait to play the 'upstarts from Hull' so we can get the antidote. We are basically a mid-table team at best, and if there are any less than 3 players arriving on Monday, we will not even be that . A top club does NOT go into a season with a squad as thin as NUFCs.

That beggars belief. We have no national media in this country. We have a parochial London-based (and London-obsessed) media, broadcast nationally. Just look at the London-based "hype" of poor little Tottingham!!! In that local-London world (broadcast/written nationally) we will always have rubbish routinely written about us. There is no hope of it ever changing. This country will never get a National Press/Media. Never. Isn't that what the whole country is like ? Based on 'Financial Services' in the South East while most of the country lives off the scraps ?? There has been no country-wide prosperity since all the Industries committed suicide - Shipbuilding, Car-making(except as screwdriver ops run by the Japs or Germans), train-building,Steel etc etc etc. And DON'T just blame the Tories - easy target - because whilst they DO have some responsibility, the greed of myopic managers and prehistoric unions were mostly responsible.. It is no coincidence that successful Football teams(Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal ) are in areas with large concentrations of so-called Financial or Service Industries...in any event, most of Man U's fans are southern based..that is where the money & jobs are in the UK. So, we should just ACCEPT that a parochial, isolated and insular little local press (for one sh*t*hole part of the country) gets to broadcast its little local media (TV & Newspapers) viewpoint around our country, under the guise of being a "National" media?? Just don't buy/watch it - hit 'em in the pocket.

Who cares ?

That beggars belief. We have no national media in this country. We have a parochial London-based (and London-obsessed) media, broadcast nationally. Just look at the London-based "hype" of poor little Tottingham!!! In that local-London world (broadcast/written nationally) we will always have rubbish routinely written about us. There is no hope of it ever changing. This country will never get a National Press/Media. Never. Isn't that what the whole country is like ? Based on 'Financial Services' in the South East while most of the country lives off the scraps ?? There has been no country-wide prosperity since all the Industries committed suicide - Shipbuilding, Car-making(except as screwdriver ops run by the Japs or Germans), train-building,Steel etc etc etc. And DON'T just blame the Tories - easy target - because whilst they DO have some responsibility, the greed of myopic managers and prehistoric unions were mostly responsible.. It is no coincidence that successful Football teams(Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal ) are in areas with large concentrations of so-called Financial or Service Industries...in any event, most of Man U's fans are southern based..that is where the money & jobs are in the UK.

No player is irreplaceable - but the best clubs replace top players BEFORE they are in desperate need of a similar one. Failure to do this simply means that the club concerned either has to pay over the odds(as NUFC did with Owen initially)OR they don't get the player they need ; Shearer's replacement should have been someone like Ashton, and the signing done 2 years before the player was essential to the team's success. It would have cost NUFC around 6m to sign Ashton from Norwich,now they will pay at least double that to replace Owen or Viduka...

They are still entitled to their opinion - only time will tell if the club has done the right thing by selling Milner, whatever the fee ; KK has put his judgment on the line by claiming that the decision is his, so he can hardly complain in future if either no new signings materialise, or Milner goes on to be a success at his new club.

Agree with all this - waiting to see what happens by Monday, and if there are no more decent arrivals, its a bad deal 12m or no 12m(its actually only 8-9 anyway..)

Great post - sums it all up ; if we go into the season as we are(less Milner)we will be in dire straits if we get 2 injuries in crucial positions - could end up among bottom 6.

Most rather than some I would say. Maybe thats a biased view from posters on these forums though. That's like blaming customers of M&S for a fall in their profits, rather than looking at the decision makers at board level at M&S. You don't often get customers in M&S booing your staff when they don't get what they want and don't agree with top level management then forcing the hand of the chairman though do you ? No - that happens at AGMs when major shareholders(and minor ones)make their views crystal clear to the Directors ; failure to improve things means a falling share price, and the sack for those responsible ... M & S fired their Food Div manager this year becauseof falling sales - its the same thing basically. Yes but unfortuantly in the past our board has listened to our fans far to much. Not sure about the new board yet, hopefully they ignore the fans when it comes to stuff on the pitch and listen to the manager. They should indeed listen to the manager - but ARE they?

You are overlooking the fact that KK himself does not seem to be happy with the whole situation ; he hasn't exactly fallen over himself to back the way the club is being run right now, with comments about being in the dark over signings etc. You can't have it both ways - yes, we should support the manager, but if he himself is not happy, then you can hardly blame the fans for having doubts. My view is that Ashley has done a great job in clearing the club's debts, and in trying to get a lean, professional set-up in place ; where I have some doubts are in what looks to be an over-parsimonious transfer policy. I don't think he should be attempting to replicate Abramovitch, but I DO think the reins should have been loosened to the degree that KK could have most of the players he wanted IN PLACE by the time pre-season training started. I also have doubts about whether KK DOES have the final say in either Transfer Policy or Players' Contracts. Both of these areas are potential minefields for future stability at the club and I think there MUST be some truth in the rumours that KK is only at the club because of financial problems with the Soccer School in Scotland - I know from past experience that he isn't one to accept things 'Not like it said in the Brochure !' Has Keegan said several times since he came back that "Mike Ashley could be the best owner Newcastle has ever had?" Not the words of someone who is being undermined at every turn by the board, I think you'll agree. Has Keegan also said, even more recently, that he wished Ashley would tell him about WOW signings before he told Corporate Fans...?? Has he also not been downbeat on the prospect of fewer new signings arriving by deadline day..?? Not the words of a manager fulsomely praising his Chairman, I think you'll agree...

You are overlooking the fact that KK himself does not seem to be happy with the whole situation ; he hasn't exactly fallen over himself to back the way the club is being run right now, with comments about being in the dark over signings etc. You can't have it both ways - yes, we should support the manager, but if he himself is not happy, then you can hardly blame the fans for having doubts. My view is that Ashley has done a great job in clearing the club's debts, and in trying to get a lean, professional set-up in place ; where I have some doubts are in what looks to be an over-parsimonious transfer policy. I don't think he should be attempting to replicate Abramovitch, but I DO think the reins should have been loosened to the degree that KK could have most of the players he wanted IN PLACE by the time pre-season training started. I also have doubts about whether KK DOES have the final say in either Transfer Policy or Players' Contracts. Both of these areas are potential minefields for future stability at the club and I think there MUST be some truth in the rumours that KK is only at the club because of financial problems with the Soccer School in Scotland - I know from past experience that he isn't one to accept things 'Not like it said in the Brochure !'

Most rather than some I would say. Maybe thats a biased view from posters on these forums though. That's like blaming customers of M&S for a fall in their profits, rather than looking at the decision makers at board level at M&S. You don't often get customers in M&S booing your staff when they don't get what they want and don't agree with top level management then forcing the hand of the chairman though do you ? No - that happens at AGMs when major shareholders(and minor ones)make their views crystal clear to the Directors ; failure to improve things means a falling share price, and the sack for those responsible ... M & S fired their Food Div manager this year becauseof falling sales - its the same thing basically.

Most of this is absolutely on the mark - the club IS paying for the shambolic episodes of the last 4 years of Shepherd's regime, but also the fact that Ashley has taken over and brought in a managerial set-up which doesn't seem to be working very well, mainly because of the personalities involved ; KK was NEVER going to take kindly to being 'out of the loop' in the way he keeps implying that he is(referring to being kept in the dark about WOW signings etc), and Ashley himself likes to operate as a bit of a loose cannon - that type of person is NEVER going to be over-considerate of the feelings of his employees... If Ashley had wanted a continental-type arrangement re transfers etc., he would have been better advised to employ a manager who was either used to that system, or a younger guy who would adapt more easily to it...this isn't to say its wrong, just that its wrong for the people involved... I am surprised KK didn't know about Milner's feelings re his earnings - maybe he did, but his recommendations to the board were either ignored or turned down - we don't know.. It just seems obvious that the main problem right now is that the set-up ISN'T working - if it was, we wouldn't be back in crisis-mode after a new season has started. Lets be honest - a year ago, NONE of us would have thought we would be having the sort of problems obtaining(and keeping)players after the club was, we thought, on the threshold of a new era..... The more everything changes, the more it stays the same - esp, it seems, at NUFC.

The NUFC.com article about all this sums it up - whatever the rights & wrongs of wanting a new deal, it is stupid business if the club risks losing a player who has given no trouble at all and has to sign an unknown quantity that might turn out to be similar to Dyer, Barton, Bramble etc.. If Milner was after 100,000 a week or similar, then I would be totally on the club's side, but he clearly only wants parity with Taylor, and after some of Taylor's mistakes over the Bolton game(and previously)can anyone say Milner is worth less to the side than him? Absolutely NOT. The club messed Milner about by sending him on loan, then cancelled a transfer to Villa on deadline day 2 years ago ; he responded by coming back and still doing his best, even if he still has some faults in his game, so who has been more professional, the club or Milner..? Its not as if the club is crammed with highly-professional individuals - if it had been, there might have been some silverware on the table over the past 10 years - and it can ill-afford to lose a player with his best years in front of him who DOES have those qualities.. Brian Clough used to take John McGovern to every club he managed, and not many people could see why, but Clough knew the guy would give 100% in every game and by doing so, set an example to those around him - he was once asked by Doug Weatherall of the Mail why he DID keep buying McGovern when none of the press guys could see any outstanding talent ; Clough's reply was 'that's because I'm a manager, and you lot are journalists, Doug !' Maybe KK sees something similar in Milner, and Milner is certainly a more skilled player than McGovern was, even though the latter went on to play for Scotland. This whole episode casts doubt of the running of the club - when KK was a player at Liverpool, Shanks always knew when he was getting twitchy about money(KK never had any doubts about his self-worth !!) and he would give KK a rise BEFORE Keegan got on to him about it - that way, he avoided having to negotiate a BIG rise because he took the wind out of KK's sails first. It seems to me that some forward thinking is also required at NUFC.

Very disappointing and very worrying unless the club have already lined up some quality players before the window closes ; he has obviously been tapped, but they have wanted him for a long time, and people DO want to go where they are wanted - lets be honest, quite a few on here have wanted him out of the door, so now you will get your wish... However, I wouldn't sell him at present UNLESS we are sure of reinforcements - this could leave us really struggling up front if we have injuries . If he is sold, and KK is not given any new players, he will NOT be a happy bunny... This type of thing used to happen in the Westwood days(Supermac was sold on the eve of the 76/77 season AFTER Season Tickets had been sold) - I thought we were too big a club now, but maybe not.

Ex-Toon "star" Michael Bridges played for a few months last season on loan at Sydney FC - and scored a few goals too. So yeah, Championship at very best... David Carney left Sydney for Sheffield United which was unanimously considered a step up... Wellington are supposed to be a dark horse this season - do Kiwis generally care about them? Not really as far as I can tell. Rugby is all powerful here (union and league) but most sports are more popular than football. The Phoenix only get attendances of a few thousand I think and they're the only team in NZ. Dunno how many fans they have around the country - they used to be based in Auckland so I assume they've still got a fanbase here. Might be a bit more popular if Wellington were more successful but my sense is it's just not a part of Kiwi sporting DNA. NZ is too small a country in population terms to currently stage a credible football competition, which is why Wellington play in the A League ; Australia's population is bigger than Holland's, so there are enough fans to support the League ; Kiwis are antipathic to anything Australian, so they naturally have little interest in football played mainly there ; they are also. as everyone knows, best at Egg-chasing.

The problem for the National side right now is that its stars like Viduka ,Kewell and Neill are starting to age together - there ARE some younger players with promise but none that look as if they can replicate the guys who will be dropping out as time goes by.... There is great potential to develop players in Oz, but the kids get neglected between the ages of about 10 and 15, which is a crucial stage... I wanted SJH to set up an Academy in Oz back in 1997, and NUFC could have benefitted greatly from this, as could many youngsters who have drifted out of the game because of lack of facilities or opportunity to develop. Still very extensive migration to Oz(esp WA)from the UK esp., so there will always be an interest and kids coming through who want to play in the Prem ; you see matches played every weekend where I live..

We will have real problems if there are no further signings - even ONE would be too few.. In order to have a decent season(chance of 8th place)we need quality cover in at least 3 positions, and a first-choice creative midfielder which we still haven't got. If we have to go to Jan with the current squad, we will struggle as soon as there are more than 2 decent players injured - imagine how vulnerable the side would be without, say, Coloccini & Owen..! Also, if Milner is allowed to leave, that will be MORE gaps to fill ; this meeting today could be critical to the next 9 months.

It may be Mickey Mouse, but its our only realistic chance of silverware this season(and maybe next!), but I would rather we lost than picked up any more injuries, esp to Owen ; I just don't know where the goals will come from if he is out for long(we don't have Martins or Viduka either), and I would start to fear relegation if that happens ; there is just NO goal scoring in the side apart from these 3 and unless we have something already sorted, we would be held to ransom over the next few days in trying to get a striker in.. Ideally, a sneaky last-minute win, and NO INJURIES !!

Way too soon to make some of these assessments - I think WBA will do OK when they settle down, have played Arsenal away and Everton at home and only lost by 1 goal ; remember when NUFC got into the Prem in 1993 ? We lost our first 2 matches(Spurs at SJP, Coventry away by 0-1 & 2-1 respectively), yet finished 3rd... Mowbray has made some shrewd signings, including Valero from Real Mallorca who, reputedly, NUFC also wanted and the team will improve as it settles down to the prem. I think you are way out by predicting a 5th place finish for NUFC, esp if we fail to make any more decent signings - the first team is OK when at full strength, but injuries will decimate the season. I expect no better than 9th/10th - maybe 8th if we strengthen. Man U will again be challengers - last season, Arsenal looked the best side early on but faded away ; this might happen with Chelsea, but I think they will still challenge well into the season. Expect a surprise season from Boro, and a top 6 finish for Villa... Hull to slip away after a bright start, Stoke likewise.... Mackems MAY just pip us unless we have strengthened by end of August... Its a long season - lots will happen but the top 4 will remain the same.