merlin

This is utter tripe - so you are quite happy to have censorship are you ? Words fail me sometimes as to how easily people are prepared to allow their individual liberties to be taken away ; Stalin would have loved you.. IF a player slags off the club UNFAIRLY or INACCURATELY, THEN he should be fined - NUFC are in such a mess that its very easy for players to say bad things about them WITHOUT resorting to inaccuracies.. IF THE CAP FITS.....

WHY don't you like him saying it ? It's perfectly true, and as far as I'm concerned, the more ridicule and censure the board get, the better..Don't you realise that the powers that be are QUITE happy for fans to keep turning up, week in, week out ? They get the money, you get sub-standard football... Far too much apathy and acceptance of mediocre standards under the guise of so-called 'loyalty'.... As far as N'Zogbia is concerned, he has a bad attitude, but we always knew that ; however, I DO think a decent manager and coaches would get more from him than NUFC have, because he DOES have ability and pace. I wouldn't keep many players at SJP currently, because there are too many gaps in crucial areas to fill if the club is to stay up, so I would let him go for a decent fee, but preferably, a swap deal with someone like Huddlestone or Bale.

I share many of your views on this.

It's not about individuals so much as it is about creating an effective unit. Villa's effective unit obviously doesn't include past it chuggers like Butt or Geremi. They are buying our promising youngsters while we are targeting has-beens like Ferguson. That tells you why MON went there instead of NUFC, and also why they are pushing for CL football while NUFC fight relegation....

All the signings mentioned really get the hairs standing up on the back of your neck - NOT..!! Ferguson, together with Ameobi getting a 3 Yr deal, has bracketed the club firmly with the dross of the Prem. When Stan Seymour was on the board in the 80s, he once said before a game with Liverpool at SJP that ; "Newcastle really can't be expected to beat a club like Liverpool'... He would be proud of his inheritance today......!!

This post pretty much highlights my post perfectly. This massive misconception about Martins and his lack of technical ability not making him a great striker. If Martins scrapes to 15 goals as you say, i can almost guarantee you he'd contribute another 5 goals in assist. At the end of the day, team goals a the only goals that count and if Martins has directly contributed to 20 goals in a season. in automatically puts him into the group of top strikers. He'll of effectively of contributed exactly the same amount of goals as Michael Owen will have. The only difference is becasue Owen has such a good record and seems technically sound he can get away with it more than some likes Martins who infuritaing game play often overshadows his overall contribution. He may be one of the worst of the bunch, but he'd definitely be up there. For me, when it comes to those 90 minutes over the course of a season, Martins is equal to Owen in terms of contibutions to the team. I could name so many strikers over the years who are technically proficaient but when it comes to contribution to the team have little input. Forlan, Milosevic, Heskey (at times), Marcus Bent, Sutton etc etc. (maybe some ropey examples at the moment but the list could go on and on) all you could say are technically better than martins, they have the touch, they have the passiing ablity, the hold up play and link up play, but when it comes to putting the ball in the back of the net, or making a noticebal contribution to the team, none have been as consitenly as good as Martins has been so far. Further to my last posting on this comment, if you look at his stats on Wikipedia from both his time with Inter AND NUFC, you will find that the ONLY season he has, TO DATE, managed a ratio of 1 goal in 2 appearances, is THIS ONE(6 goals in 12 apps)... His average over the rest of the seasons is between 1 goal every 3 games, and 1 in 4, which, if you want to start quoting stats, means that over a 38 game season, he would average about 12 goals... You STILL think that's as good as Owen's average , or, more to the point, do you think its good enough for a CF in a team where midfielders hardly score at all..!??

The fact that he has been given a 3 yr deal shows you the extent of the club's ambitions - end of...

This post pretty much highlights my post perfectly. This massive misconception about Martins and his lack of technical ability not making him a great striker. If Martins scrapes to 15 goals as you say, i can almost guarantee you he'd contribute another 5 goals in assist. At the end of the day, team goals a the only goals that count and if Martins has directly contributed to 20 goals in a season. in automatically puts him into the group of top strikers. He'll of effectively of contributed exactly the same amount of goals as Michael Owen will have. The only difference is becasue Owen has such a good record and seems technically sound he can get away with it more than some likes Martins who infuritaing game play often overshadows his overall contribution. He may be one of the worst of the bunch, but he'd definitely be up there. For me, when it comes to those 90 minutes over the course of a season, Martins is equal to Owen in terms of contibutions to the team. I could name so many strikers over the years who are technically proficaient but when it comes to contribution to the team have little input. Forlan, Milosevic, Heskey (at times), Marcus Bent, Sutton etc etc. (maybe some ropey examples at the moment but the list could go on and on) all you could say are technically better than martins, they have the touch, they have the passiing ablity, the hold up play and link up play, but when it comes to putting the ball in the back of the net, or making a noticebal contribution to the team, none have been as consitenly as good as Martins has been so far. Can you quote me the last 5 assists he has DIRECTLY made i.e., his cross/pass led to a goal - I am interested to see when and against whom they occurred...and you are right - the players you quoted ARE ropey examples when it comes to putting the ball into the net ; if you mean CHRIS Sutton, his best season was playing alongside one Alan Shearer at Blackburn when said AS was at his best..something of a help, wouldn't you say..!!??

You say NUFC need better. In what context, i.e. realistic achievements and targets, do you mean? You could do with better. But then you, Everton, and loads of clubs 'could do' with better players. He's your best forward. In YOUR opinion, maybe - not in mine...

Disagree that the standard of football is higher now than 10 years ago - it may be for about 4 or 5 clubs but not for the majority of the Prem - and certainly not for NUFC...!

I've made my views about Martins plain in the past, as have most posters, so I'm not going over it all again. Will simply point out his plus/minus points;- Pluses - Pace, powerful shot, enthusiasm and good jumping ability for a small forward. Minuses - Erratic distribution, plays without awareness, erratic shooting, lack of intelligent movement. Will he score enough goals to be classed a really top Prem forward ? NO - 15 p.a. average, if that. Will he improve on his weaknesses? No sign of that, and he is at least 24 now, maybe much older. Would I swap him for Berbatov ? Only if Owen was staying, because I think Berbatov would be a great foil for Owen, but if Owen is going, we need Martins' pace - we have little enough is the whole side without losing any more - but Berbatov is by far the better player technically. Martins is not by any means the worst forward in the Prem but he is far from the best, and we need better; unfortunately, NUFC are not likely to GET any better ones for the foreseeable future.

Are you surprised ? he lost 100m on that oh-so-clever gamble on Bradford & Bingley...!

You are right to be concerned - at the moment, the best the fans can hope for is to manage to avoid relegation. If that doesn't happen, get ready to enjoy trips to those wonderful Fizzy Pop clubs, some of which we last visited 16 years ago - places like Tranmere and Grimsby, both of which I remember fondly because after winning there(esp at Grimsby)in 1993, I knew we were leaving them behind ; hopefully for good..... Still.you won't have problems parking, and at least you'll FEEL as if NUFC are a 'Big' Club because we usually have more fans than the home side....well, it WAS`like that then - I think it might be a bit different this time !! Can't see anything good on the horizon unless a takeover comes out of the blue - but then, we thought that back in 2007 before Ashley took over....!

I'm going to cancel mine if the Club don't make significant moves in the January window. I wont be letting Ashley earn interest off my money if he isn't prepared to invest himself. If I was in the UK, I would too - its time for the club to EARN its support.

I have that feeling as well. Carroll doesn't look like a goal scorer, I think Joe likes him because he's big and strong. Xisco looks less physical but he looks like he might have more quality around the penalty area. Hard to tell from a couple of brief outings, but I'd like to see him in a decent side before i write him off. not just the goals but all round play Agreed. He's no Viduka but he looks a bit more polished than Carroll. I wouldn't have even minded seeing him alongside Carroll for the last 10 mins with the wingers firing a few crosses in. Comparing Xisco with Carroll is like comparing a Lada with a Reliant Kitten. You almost literally took the words out of my mouth, only it was the Reliant Robin I was going to use..!!!

Spot-on - I agree. I still think he will prove himself far from past it when he joins another club with better midfielders.

It's the Mail so I wouldn't pay much attention to it. That said, it's disgusting if the bit about Bridge being on £90kpw is at all true. Players like him and his two clubs (current and former) are ruining football. Did any NUFC fans complain about 'ruining football' when we signed Shearer for a WR fee ? I know I didn't because he could(and should) have been the final piece in our jig-saw for success... Its City's turn to have a rich benefactor now and good luck to them - ours has simply cocked-up...

I know you love to hark back to some past situation in every post but how is that in anyway relevant to anything? Because sometimes there isn't simply a case of there "being an alternative". I'd imagine, like with the Rooney scenario, we saw a top-class player who we could a) afford and b) might have a chance of signing, so went beyond what they'd normally do to sign them. There might be a case in this transfer window or the summer where there's another "Modric" out there who this time might sign for us, just like in 2004/5 where we wanted a big-name striker to replace Shearer long-term so went for Rooney and then later on, Owen. The difference is that the club is in a MUCH worse position now than it was in 2004/5 - any top player will NOT sign for NUFC if he has an alternative, and if he IS a 'top' player, he will have plenty of alternatives... Whether you like it or not, the club is viewed as second-rate now. Owen, for example, would not sign for us now if he was 25 and at Real Madrid.....

people like you are going to have to get used to the idea that clubs like Spurs think bigger, act bigger than we do. This is why Gazza and Waddle went there for that reason, despite what other people that say they are long term supporters will tell you. The blip of the Halls and Shepherd, where we correctly punched our weight above clubs like this, is well and truly over. Gazza, Waddle, Jenas.... :colo: you're a fool if you seriously think the sale of Jeanarse and the circmstances of it compares to those of Waddle and Gazza. Jenas left here because he thought he'd "hit a ceiling" and wanted to move on because Spurs were on the way up. You can try and write it off and say he doesn't count but he clearly does. a player with no particular affinity or feeling for the club, moving on after a few years ? No. I don't think so. Look at your history books, and read about Gazza, Waddle and Beardsley going.......and Pop Robson before that. Similar reasons to Given, but I'm sure you know better than those who witnessed it. Bye. I've been around during all those debacles you quote from Pop Robson up to Given but the possible departure of Given has NOTHING in common with the others. Nice try though. I have to disagree - Robson wanted to leave because he thought the club were 'unprofessional' and he wanted to have a chance of winning things ; where is the difference to Shay's reasons to leave ? Pop also thought NUFC had stood still after winning the Fairs Cup ; Shay thinks NUFC have gone BACKWARDS, which is actually even MORE reason to go.. he sees no future . It is true, though, that Shay's possible departure has nothing in common with the REASONS NUFC sold Gazza, Waddle & Beardsley, although all 3 were happy to go because they wanted success and so does Shay - the club doesn't really want Given to leave, but they were quite happy for the local trio to go because they wanted the money.

Again, not surprised - the signs for the transfer window look distinctly underwhelming... Probably the most accurate statement made by Kinnear in that article is that 'other clubs may be bidding more than us', which is probably Clubspeak for ' the players prefer to go to other clubs'.....

Someone has to be available and willing to come in though. You talk about action but you had the Halls and Shepherd waiting in the wings to take over the club. In today's climate who is there waiting with the sort of money and know-how who could sort the club out? I've never gotten where you come from either re: Hall etc. Firstly, there WILL be someone out there who would want NUFC - but they aint going to go for it right now, partly as you say, because of the economic climate, but also because they have Ashley by the short & curlies - as I said. he either has to invest to prevent relegation or accept a huge loss in the value of his investment if the club goes down....nobody is going to throw money at him in THAT situation, but eventually, they will .... Even so, there was NO 'White Knight' around in the 70s/80s wanting to take the club over(or prepared to battle the Board with cash to do it), but it didn't stop me witholding ST money - I picked my games as I said. Whether anyone else does that is up to them, but if you look at attendances from 1978 onwards, you can see that quite a few fans felt the same. As for the Hall connection, I had met SJH in 1986 during the opening of MetroCentre and done business with his Company - we talked football, and it was he who confirmed that Beardsley was to be sold to pay for the Milburn stand in 87. When he decided to make a bid to take over the club, I offered to help and that is how I got involved. There were a number of us who did much of the donkey work in contacting shareholders, meeting them and persuading them to sell to the Magpie Group etc. I know Sir John and his wife reasonably well and I KNOW they personally wanted the best for the club... more than that I am not prepared to comment.

This - but I'm not surprised they've done well.

Despite being a fan of the club for nearly 50 years, I have, in past times, withdrawn support from it whenever I felt that I was being conned ; this was especially true during the era of McKeag/Seymour when they regularly made a habit of selling top players(think Waddle, Beardsley and Gascoigne in the 80s,Supermac in the 70s)just AFTER all the Season-ticket money was in.... It didn't take me long to twig this, and I stopped getting a ST - instead, I would simply pick & choose games. There is NO WAY anyone is going to get away with conning me twice - even once is too often, and I have adopted this policy in every aspect of life. Certain things, such a individual freedom, mean more to me than just money, and that is one of the reasons I now live away from the UK, but that is another story. It was because myself and several other guys felt so strongly that the club was being mismanaged and badly-run , that we spent our own time assisting SJH to purchase shares so that he could oust McKeag & Co - we realised that , unless we did this and stirred up dissatisfaction among the main group of supporters which ultimately meant boycotting games,NOTHING WOULD CHANGE.... If you want something badly enough, you have to be prepared to make sacrifices to get it, and this is something that seems to have been forgotten in today's world - one of the reasons why the economy is in such a state ; people have over-borrowed because they 'want it now'..this has NEVER worked, and the results are clear for all to see. None of us were happy about missing games - I once drove up to Edinburgh on a Saturday morning because we had found out that a person there was willing to sell her shares and it was literally a race against a rep of McKeag's and myself as to who got there first...some of the lads were offered the chance to go but refused because they wanted to see the Coventry game that day - a game which, as it turned out, we lost 0-3, but memorable because the crowd in the Milburn turned on the Board for the first time and chanted 'OUT,OUT, OUT'. I would LOVE to have seen that, but I wasn't sorry I went to Edinburgh, because I knew that , in the end, that was more important to the club's future. This was in October 1988, and it took a further 18 months before SJH got on to the Board - it took until June 1992 before he gained total control, because the club was going BUST..WHY?..because the fans had stopped going in large numbers..YOU CANNOT BUCK THE MARKET, and McKeag found that out despite fighting tooth and nail to stay in charge. If Ashley does not try to improve the club and learn from his mistakes, he also will find that you cannot buck the market(if indeed he hasn't absorbed that lesson already..!!) ; despite his relative wealth he will be faced with unacceptable losses, both in reputation and in his pocket if the club goes down because he will be faced with a massive bill to get it back up again - either that, or he will have to sell it at a big loss... I am fortunate to be living away from the UK because it means I do not have the choice to make about attending games/buying STs etc., and I am now well past the flush of youth...you guys are the ones who now have the responsibility of deciding what you do about the decline of NUFC - its an individual decision, but those who decide NOT to back the Board should NOT be condemned as some sort of success-followers because firstly, there hasn't BEEN any real success since 1969 and secondly, if we had taken that view back in 1988, the KK era wouldn't even have been possible. Eventually, you have to make a stand - if you don't things will just carry on as before...

No surprise at all - this club is in the worst situation since McKeag was in charge and I can see a big drop in season ticket sales next season, esp if the club goes down. Given is quite right in his views about NUFC and in a way, this reminds me of what happened with Pop Robson back in 1971 when, nearly 2 years after winning the Fairs Cup(largely on Robson's goals),it was obvious that the club were not building on that success and Robson hired a hotel room in the City, gathered the Press together, and told them he wanted to leave because the club was, in his words, 'Unprofessional'. Robson was on his way within weeks of this, as the Board didn't like him telling the truth, so I imagine that the same thing will happen here... So, after 38 years, we are back to the same scenario, with a top player leaving because of his frustrations at the club's Mickey Mouse image and activities ; Shay has been with the club for 11 years so nobody can accuse him of disloyalty - he deserves, as do all of us, the chance to get the best from his life and that isn't going to come from a club permanently in disarray. Perhaps its time one of the major fans' groups hired a hotel room and called in the Press to say they were unhappy about the club's lack of professionalism and were thinking of boycotting games - I reckon that's about the only thing which will put a bomb under the board. Unless something is done, watch for more kids in the NE wearing the strips of Liverpool, Man U etc etc - IF they bother at all....the Financial crisis will have a wonderful way of focussing minds and pockets. Good Luck to Shay whenever and WHEREVER he goes - there aren't many worse-run clubs that NUFC in the Prem.

All the Best to everyone.