mrmojorisin75

Very tired ... Apparently Keegan can do no wrong and Ashley can do no right, and it's as simple as that. No questions asked. Quite frankly, I very much doubt that myself. i've had enough of this now, i know i'm talking sense as are you, Edd and so on [and baggio although he's winding the fuck out of people;) ] but no-one wants to listen nasty dennis, lying mike, boycott, march, protest etc... enjoy it

I have obviously no way of knowing what Keegan knew and when he knew it. I believe (and believed) he lied when he said it was his decision to sell Milner, but the reason for it is different: he needed to show that he was in charge. But if it was always part of the deal that he wouldn't be in charge of signings, it would make no sense to claim so. The difference between the lies is that Keegan's protect his authority, which is being undermined by the board, whereas Ashley's are fraudulent. Those "pieced together interviews and articles from various places" are all from official club publications, by the way. Match day programmes and that NUFC magazine. The part in bold is based on a) the owner having sold the club to Keegan on the ambition to win something and b) us not even properly replacing all outgoing players. There is a huge gap between stated long term plans and the will to implement those plans. In fact, there's no sign that those actually were the plans at any time. When you ask "why the vitriol" I have to ask whether you can read. Where is this so-called vitriol? It's nowhere to be found. What I've written is an objective criticism: on the one hand, what has been said by the owner, on the other hand what has been done by the club. If you call that "vitriol", it must be because you're mentally challenged. I've never attacked Wise or Ashley for being southerners, so I see no reason to answer to your last point. not your vitriol, the general vitriol which exist all over the place which you can't deny really, can you? the air of militancy was what caused me to post today, it's nuts! we're talking about hitting ashley in the pocket and a co-ordinated march when it never occurred to anyone to do this in the past despite arguably greater mismanagement of the club over a far longer period there is massive leap being made here and i'm interested in what it is, "lying" simply doesn't cut it for me...i'm attributing it to the dennis wise/cockney cunt faction as i can see nothing else to inspire it, can you? there are huge gaps in your logic and train of thought, i'm pleased you can see that though

kaka you getting tired of this yet?

yet you knowashley would want to hurt us? is what i'm reading into that... do tell...

guess you're referring to me? can you clearly identify a timeline of events with key statements that prove ashley lied and keegan had no knowledge or culpability in events? if you can i'll read it and judge, until then i'm going to continue to assume that it's largely speculation and hearsay based on pieced together interviews and articles from various places is the part in bold a fact or a lie though? i'm confused? again i'll ask, why the vitriol Mongo? please try to explain that to me without the presence of dennis wise (primary culprit allegedly) and a southern-based billionaire owner...

In such case I have no doubt whatsoever such a dispute would have been referred immediately to Llambias. It's all speculation, but very good points are being made by the likes of KaKa, Edd, mrmojo et al - and not being adequately refuted. mrmojorisin75 suggests: So can Keegan's supporters please come up with something other than "It's all speculative bollocks" or "It's all Wise's fault"? UV asks Well, yes and no. He said (with some cheekiness I'm sure) "I didn't have a brochure this time. It came like a whirlwind it is like one of those Lastminute.com holidays! There was no brochure I just came." Secondly, Wise had yet to be appointed, though one must assume negotiations with Wise had already commenced. So no, Keegan was not explicitly told that the hierarchy was Ashley -> Llambias -> Wise -> Jimenez -> Keegan. However, if you think Ashley and Mort hired Keegan without telling him about the imminent appointment of an executive director (football), that Ashley and Mort duped Keegan into believing he would be an old-school manager with sweeping powers while secretly planning to go in exactly the opposite direction, well... I'll take Kaka's logic over yours thanks. raconteur, very few people want to hear this, instead they prefer the following word associations: cockney, lies, wise, southerner, season tickets, 3 years, fabrication, conspiracy KK, no wrong, innocent, victim, beyond criticism i'm still astounded that after years of shepherd leasing warehouses to the club, ridiculing the supporters publicly, taking massive dividends despite deteriorating results on the pitch (etc...) was affored so much time and never once was there a talk of a boycott of club products, marches, none of this shit...before anyone starts about balancing the books i'll point you to bobby robsons first 2 seasons for a parrallel on spend and manager...also to the sacking of bobby as well really is anyone gonna look me in the internet eye and tell me this doesn't just boil down to a nice bit of dirty regionalism against a southern owner and nasty dennis? anyone? really? if you want answers to that you just have to look over the board, probably hundreds of counter arguments. specifically the inaccurate "robson's first two seasons" stuff which has been responded to quite a few times. and i'm not sure what people are getting at by bringing up the Robson sacking as it is some defence of this board. are people saying "well shepherd did it so ashley is allowed to as well"? that's bloody daft if so. i criticised shepherd for his undermining of robson and handling of his departure, i'll do the same for Ashley in this equivalent situation. either you do it for both or neither, otherwise it's being blindly partisan. shite like "KK, no wrong, innocent, victim, beyond criticism" does everyone on here a disservice. fuckof johhny that's pish to be honest i don't offer the robson book balancing as an excuse for ashley but it's the only reasonable thing i can see for people kicking off so much, the lack of spending...if it's not about the club not spending money on players then people should stop spouting the 3 years ST shit no? otherwise what're they fucken complaining about on that score? this lies shit is unreal - KK fucken lied to you all summer saying everything was OK didn't he? that he had a wondeful relationship with everyone at the club, there was money to spend etc... or were his lies OK 'cause he loved the club but ashleys/nasty dennis's are not OK for what reason exactly? 'fuckof johhny that's pish' are you drunk or something? the Robson thing is rubbish because he was allowed to spend more once we had a cash windfall by way of the stadium expansion. if you want to look for an equivalent development today you look at the £18m extra TV money we received at the end of last season compared to the one before, along with the £6m saved in debt repayments. considering we broke even in our last accounts that should give us over £20m net to spend, or, if we want to be ambitious and use next season's income in advance, as many other clubs do, at least £40m. Mackems have spent something like £70m since coming up, and transfer inflation in general has spiked - overall summer spending gone from something like £265m to £540m in 2 years. yet we've spent little to nothing since ashley arrived. personally i find facts like this more important than shite like 'fuckof johhny' which you apparently find so superior. as for Keegan lying, maybe he was putting on a brave face and trying to battle through the undermining and ridiculing as Robson did before him, and thought that while the window was open there was a still a chance he could leverage his position to get what we wanted for the club. or, as many assumed earlier in the window, that he had some sort of working relationship and consensus that disintegrated - perhaps because the two sides were squabbling over limited funds, and this came to a head in the last days of the window. wasn't an angry 'fuck off' mate, more a conversation one! apologies anyways your facts about the robson part - why are they so different from now? if you know me you'll know i've been highly critical of the spend under MA but i'm trying to be devils advocate here; the man was forced to pay off 60m (min?) of debt when he took the club over...is it not plausible to think he might take the TV money for a season or two, balance the books on transfers (as bobby had) to then spend when he sees fit? are those not facts in the same way yours are? you and i know that ashley could spend now and recoup the money later, as shepherd could have given bobby the money based on the windfall he should have known was coming these are the reasons i see it as relevant johnny keegan lying can be deemed putting a brave face on things but ashley doing the same can not?

No problem. It's not about regionalism, it's about an owner lying about how he wants to run the club. care to expand? in fact don't bother, i'm convinced, MA is the only person in football to utter an untruth, if indeed it could be proven that he has done so...and if it wasn't him it was nasty dennis probably you're deluding yourself if you can't see the regional aspect

nicely summed up james

In such case I have no doubt whatsoever such a dispute would have been referred immediately to Llambias. It's all speculation, but very good points are being made by the likes of KaKa, Edd, mrmojo et al - and not being adequately refuted. mrmojorisin75 suggests: So can Keegan's supporters please come up with something other than "It's all speculative bollocks" or "It's all Wise's fault"? UV asks Well, yes and no. He said (with some cheekiness I'm sure) "I didn't have a brochure this time. It came like a whirlwind it is like one of those Lastminute.com holidays! There was no brochure I just came." Secondly, Wise had yet to be appointed, though one must assume negotiations with Wise had already commenced. So no, Keegan was not explicitly told that the hierarchy was Ashley -> Llambias -> Wise -> Jimenez -> Keegan. However, if you think Ashley and Mort hired Keegan without telling him about the imminent appointment of an executive director (football), that Ashley and Mort duped Keegan into believing he would be an old-school manager with sweeping powers while secretly planning to go in exactly the opposite direction, well... I'll take Kaka's logic over yours thanks. raconteur, very few people want to hear this, instead they prefer the following word associations: cockney, lies, wise, southerner, season tickets, 3 years, fabrication, conspiracy KK, no wrong, innocent, victim, beyond criticism i'm still astounded that after years of shepherd leasing warehouses to the club, ridiculing the supporters publicly, taking massive dividends despite deteriorating results on the pitch (etc...) was affored so much time and never once was there a talk of a boycott of club products, marches, none of this shit...before anyone starts about balancing the books i'll point you to bobby robsons first 2 seasons for a parrallel on spend and manager...also to the sacking of bobby as well really is anyone gonna look me in the internet eye and tell me this doesn't just boil down to a nice bit of dirty regionalism against a southern owner and nasty dennis? anyone? really? if you want answers to that you just have to look over the board, probably hundreds of counter arguments. specifically the inaccurate "robson's first two seasons" stuff which has been responded to quite a few times. and i'm not sure what people are getting at by bringing up the Robson sacking as it is some defence of this board. are people saying "well shepherd did it so ashley is allowed to as well"? that's bloody daft if so. i criticised shepherd for his undermining of robson and handling of his departure, i'll do the same for Ashley in this equivalent situation. either you do it for both or neither, otherwise it's being blindly partisan. shite like "KK, no wrong, innocent, victim, beyond criticism" does everyone on here a disservice. fuckof johhny that's pish to be honest i don't offer the robson book balancing as an excuse for ashley but it's the only reasonable thing i can see for people kicking off so much, the lack of spending...if it's not about the club not spending money on players then people should stop spouting the 3 years ST shit no? otherwise what're they fucken complaining about on that score? this lies shit is unreal - KK fucken lied to you all summer saying everything was OK didn't he? that he had a wondeful relationship with everyone at the club, there was money to spend etc... or were his lies OK 'cause he loved the club but ashleys/nasty dennis's are not OK for what reason exactly?

In such case I have no doubt whatsoever such a dispute would have been referred immediately to Llambias. It's all speculation, but very good points are being made by the likes of KaKa, Edd, mrmojo et al - and not being adequately refuted. mrmojorisin75 suggests: So can Keegan's supporters please come up with something other than "It's all speculative bollocks" or "It's all Wise's fault"? UV asks Well, yes and no. He said (with some cheekiness I'm sure) "I didn't have a brochure this time. It came like a whirlwind it is like one of those Lastminute.com holidays! There was no brochure I just came." Secondly, Wise had yet to be appointed, though one must assume negotiations with Wise had already commenced. So no, Keegan was not explicitly told that the hierarchy was Ashley -> Llambias -> Wise -> Jimenez -> Keegan. However, if you think Ashley and Mort hired Keegan without telling him about the imminent appointment of an executive director (football), that Ashley and Mort duped Keegan into believing he would be an old-school manager with sweeping powers while secretly planning to go in exactly the opposite direction, well... I'll take Kaka's logic over yours thanks. raconteur, very few people want to hear this, instead they prefer the following word associations: cockney, lies, wise, southerner, season tickets, 3 years, fabrication, conspiracy KK, no wrong, innocent, victim, beyond criticism i'm still astounded that after years of shepherd leasing warehouses to the club, ridiculing the supporters publicly, taking massive dividends despite deteriorating results on the pitch (etc...) was affored so much time and never once was there a talk of a boycott of club products, marches, none of this shit...before anyone starts about balancing the books i'll point you to bobby robsons first 2 seasons for a parrallel on spend and manager...also to the sacking of bobby as well really is anyone gonna look me in the internet eye and tell me this doesn't just boil down to a nice bit of dirty regionalism against a southern owner and nasty dennis? anyone? really?

That's easy: The club's latest statements contradict their statements before the closing of the transfer window. Now we know that they lied. And we've all seen the interview with Keegan where he said the final decision to sell Milner was his. More lies? i honestly dont think the major falling out was over milner. i think it was more likely over the barton/ owen/ xisco/ gonzalez end day antics of the board We might never know for sure, but if people are accusing the board of telling lies about transfer policy then they also need to look at Keegan's part in keeping the pretense going. If the populist view is to be believed then Keegan had little or no say in transfers for 8 months, but chose to go along with it. We all know what Keegan is like and there is no way IMO that he would have stayed or stayed quiet for that length of time if he wasn't ok with the situation, and he certainly wouldn't have lied to the fans to cover for Ashley and co. if it was as bad as is being made out and he was genuinely unhappy. Errr, or how about the view Keegan came in at the end of a transfer window, was promised funds and control of transfers in the summer - the summer came and over the next couple of months it became clear to Keegan that actually he actually wasn't in control culminating in the sale of Milner, the attempted sale of Owen and the bringing in of two players that he didn't sanction which was the final straw for him? Truth or fiction? Who knows, nobody actually knows but some on here seem to have made up facts out of nothing. slugsy, he came in right in the middle of the january window iirc also following your own version of events there (where you're probably describing what REALLY happened) it all fell apart near the end rather being a charade from the beginning i would follow this myself personally but none of it answers the question why the club persued NONE of keegans targets does it?

What about all protests that have already taken place? What about protests before and after the match? What about this planned march? What about all the boycotting? I'm not saying don't make your voices heard during the match but not at the expense of getting behind the players. As BooBoo put it, 90 minutes of vitriol won't help us win. ill tell you about rthe protests that already took place, while some people had the balls to go to the ground, and make thier voices heard. others sat on thier arses, typing stuff on computers , ridiculing them,....while hiding behind thier computers... This place is full of all talk and no do. well fuck off and do it then, stop talking about it, go on you're wasting time run along baaaaaaaaaaaa

this is what Ashley and his merry men want....50 000 good little sheep behaving themselves Grow up. BooBoo isn't implying we shouldn't make our voices heard but is absolutely correct in simply stating that we need to get behind the team. sheep. Get some perspective. This isn't 50,000 lemmings following the pied piper off a cliff, oblivious to the turmoil and danger ahead of them. Older posters here can verify that as much as Keegan walking may hurt, the club itself is in nowhere near the dire straits it has been in the past. Does anyone here really think we're in danger of relegation? Are we hundreds of millions in debt and heading towards administration? Have all of our best players been sold and we're bereft of depth and quality? No. A manager with a history of walking out has walked out after a squabble with the board, we're sound financially and we have a decent though not large squad. It's not the end of the world, the board are not conspirators in an international assassination plot and deriding anyone who dares back the team as a "sheep" makes you a grade A cunt. fucking sheep

this is what Ashley and his merry men want....50 000 good little sheep behaving themselves Grow up. BooBoo isn't implying we shouldn't make our voices heard but is absolutely correct in simply stating that we need to get behind the team. sheep. balloon

The board at the end of the day are accountable and have to accept the brunt of the blame even for the Manager's actions, they appointed him after all. From the statements that have been made by both camps, it's clear that the DOF thing and purchasing of players, which sounds to have been the root of the problems, the goalposts have changed. We were told KK had the final say, however right or wrong he is with his decisions, he should have been allowed to stand by them. Instead he was undermined, overruled and players were brought in without his approval. Then we are told that KK didn't have final say after all !!! You can not move goalposts like this or expecting managers to cover up for your lies indefinitely. A lot of fans will give KK an easy ride, because he's KK, I do not deny that, but that doesn't make them wrong here. He's shown once again to be a man of principle who is quite prepared to walk away from something if he does not believe in it. He is somewhat of a hot head and seems to do a lot of things in the heat of the moment, but the fact that it took so long for this to be confirmed suggests that he was persuadable here, things could have been done to prevent him leaving, they weren't and the rest is history. For me the board take blame for this because KK as manager of NUFC was the best for the club IMO, not a DOF structure. Give KK the best environment to thieve in not expect him to compromise his own beliefs to fit within a structure that does not in his opinion play to his strengths. There was a small minority saying things werent right at the start of the transfer window, I think you were one of the people pretty vocal about telling us that we were wrong. Well it looks like we were proved to be right. Now you want to join this minority saying its not the board fault, well Im sorry but I sincerely doubt too many will ever share that opinion. afar, i was with you all summer on the spending thing but you're losing me here like they're both to blame, that's all there is too it Oh I'm not saying KK is blameless, but at the end of the day, it's the board who appointed him, it's the board who take the brunt of the blame IMO. They appointed the wrong man to fit within their structure, that was their first mistake, they made plenty more on the way to his departure. EDIT: Just there are some people on here that want to put this all down to KK being a huffy b******, which he is for sure, but it's not as simple as that. no that's fair enough - people were quick enough to slate FS for appointing souness and rightly so in hindsight but i don't remember too many people complaining when ashley did give him the job, do you? hindsight is maybe the best word to use here, in hindsight it was always gonna fail but we omitted it from our minds due to the upturn in fortunes on the field and for the simple love everyone has for the guy and him for the club i'm like you but tired of the "lets drive ashley out of town on a burning cart while poking him with sticks" bridage that were f***ing slating me and you all summer for saying the slightest thing wrong about the guy well it's come home to roost for them hasn't it afar? anyways i'd like to see ashley bought out now but if he isn't we need to move on, the club are progressing, slowly, we need to remember that I don't think the make up of the structure was clear to us when KK was appointed. Even the doopiest of us on here if armed with full knowledge of the structure would have questioned the appointment of KK to fit within it. Through the summer, I just wanted to be shown some sign of ambition, some sign that we were focussed on more than just the bottom line. I'm still prepared to be turned on that, Ashley has a huge task on his hands atm, if he gets it right I'll be more than happy to support him. But at this moment in time I have very little faith in them to make any sensible decisions. see the cynic in me can see what people are getting at because lets say he appoints a new guy, a decent name, and promises the squad will be strengthened (again) - well we all know (or were told during the summer, remember?) that transfer windows are very difficult and january is the hardest so we'll have to wait til NEXT summer to see the spend happen then we reach this point next season and the moneys not been spent again? could someone be THAT cold blooded and cynical with a football club? bearing in mind there's no guarantee we'll even stay up if the new manager isn't shit hot and injuries take their toll we'll see but for now i'm willing to continue with the benefit of the doubt many people gave to FS for his many total cunt-ups in recent years and "believe" that this current situation has come about due to a series of strange and unfortunate events hope i'm right

Alongside the blatant, clear, definite improvement to the squad most were convinced of this time last year I guess we should be looking forward to taking one of those Champions League places. Choo Choo, all aboard the train to delusionville, first stop overrate new players city. pretty funny for you that UV agree about colo and jonas btw - already labelled successes by some...the boumsong comparison isn't lost on me but colo looks to have more pedigree, boumsong had only ever played in auxerre and rangers () then to us i think, colo's been around and seen it so i'd personally expect him to adapt quite well time will tell though

The board at the end of the day are accountable and have to accept the brunt of the blame even for the Manager's actions, they appointed him after all. From the statements that have been made by both camps, it's clear that the DOF thing and purchasing of players, which sounds to have been the root of the problems, the goalposts have changed. We were told KK had the final say, however right or wrong he is with his decisions, he should have been allowed to stand by them. Instead he was undermined, overruled and players were brought in without his approval. Then we are told that KK didn't have final say after all !!! You can not move goalposts like this or expecting managers to cover up for your lies indefinitely. A lot of fans will give KK an easy ride, because he's KK, I do not deny that, but that doesn't make them wrong here. He's shown once again to be a man of principle who is quite prepared to walk away from something if he does not believe in it. He is somewhat of a hot head and seems to do a lot of things in the heat of the moment, but the fact that it took so long for this to be confirmed suggests that he was persuadable here, things could have been done to prevent him leaving, they weren't and the rest is history. For me the board take blame for this because KK as manager of NUFC was the best for the club IMO, not a DOF structure. Give KK the best environment to thieve in not expect him to compromise his own beliefs to fit within a structure that does not in his opinion play to his strengths. There was a small minority saying things werent right at the start of the transfer window, I think you were one of the people pretty vocal about telling us that we were wrong. Well it looks like we were proved to be right. Now you want to join this minority saying its not the board fault, well Im sorry but I sincerely doubt too many will ever share that opinion. afar, i was with you all summer on the spending thing but you're losing me here like they're both to blame, that's all there is too it Oh I'm not saying KK is blameless, but at the end of the day, it's the board who appointed him, it's the board who take the brunt of the blame IMO. They appointed the wrong man to fit within their structure, that was their first mistake, they made plenty more on the way to his departure. EDIT: Just there are some people on here that want to put this all down to KK being a huffy bastard, which he is for sure, but it's not as simple as that. no that's fair enough - people were quick enough to slate FS for appointing souness and rightly so in hindsight but i don't remember too many people complaining when ashley did give him the job, do you? hindsight is maybe the best word to use here, in hindsight it was always gonna fail but we omitted it from our minds due to the upturn in fortunes on the field and for the simple love everyone has for the guy and him for the club i'm like you but tired of the "lets drive ashley out of town on a burning cart while poking him with sticks" bridage that were fucking slating me and you all summer for saying the slightest thing wrong about the guy well it's come home to roost for them hasn't it afar? anyways i'd like to see ashley bought out now but if he isn't we need to move on, the club are progressing, slowly, we need to remember that

why? if the new guy knows the score and is comfotable with it, i.e. aligns his transfer targets (not necessarily names) with those of the people in charge then tell me why it couldn't work? they have this structure a fair bit on the continent don't they? oh, and all this talk of keegans list that people don't believe - if any of you think for a moment it will have been anywhere near the clubs "policy" then you're dreaming...i honestly think will have been closer to a ronaldinho than a xisco myself Hey MrM, you're not supposed to disagree with me, we're the miserable bastards, if we don't stick together what hope is there in this world. If you read Yorkie's post he's talking about a continental young guy, I think. At the end of the day, it's got to be someone who is prepared to work under the structure. That should be the focus for Ashley and his team, not necessarily the name the fans want, not the popular choice, it's got to be a difficult choice and an extremely brave one for Ashley. If he does go out there a get that type of guy, then we fans have a responsibility to get totally behind the new guy and move on from the KK era once more. But TBH whoever is brought in needs our backing, I hope the fans don't behave in "but it's not KK" type of way. he he true enough mate! by the way i have said on another thread that people really need to remember appointing KK in the first place was pretty brave - 3 years out the game etc... i see no reason why he wouldn't do it again, or couldn't i see the point about continental now, yeah, so granted...there aren't any outstanding brits anyway really - only mowbray but that'd be a bigger gamble than anything else imo

That's easy: The club's latest statements contradict their statements before the closing of the transfer window. Now we know that they lied. And we've all seen the interview with Keegan where he said the final decision to sell Milner was his. More lies? i honestly dont think the major falling out was over milner. i think it was more likely over the barton/ owen/ xisco/ gonzalez end day antics of the board We might never know for sure, but if people are accusing the board of telling lies about transfer policy then they also need to look at Keegan's part in keeping the pretense going. If the populist view is to be believed then Keegan had little or no say in transfers for 8 months, but chose to go along with it. We all know what Keegan is like and there is no way IMO that he would have stayed or stayed quiet for that length of time if he wasn't ok with the situation, and he certainly wouldn't have lied to the fans to cover for Ashley and co. if it was as bad as is being made out and he was genuinely unhappy. exactly edd - it all either points to something that wasn't cynical by the club but merely a breakdown over time between the parties involved OR keegan, as you say, was unhappy and had no say the whole time yet lied to the thousands of fans buying season tickets and let them pay 3 years in advance only to up ship and run at the last minute when it was all too late if you believe he was lied to from day one then he's equally culpable in this respect, no? Very well put. irrefutable logic surely? it'll be ignored

The board at the end of the day are accountable and have to accept the brunt of the blame even for the Manager's actions, they appointed him after all. From the statements that have been made by both camps, it's clear that the DOF thing and purchasing of players, which sounds to have been the root of the problems, the goalposts have changed. We were told KK had the final say, however right or wrong he is with his decisions, he should have been allowed to stand by them. Instead he was undermined, overruled and players were brought in without his approval. Then we are told that KK didn't have final say after all !!! You can not move goalposts like this or expecting managers to cover up for your lies indefinitely. A lot of fans will give KK an easy ride, because he's KK, I do not deny that, but that doesn't make them wrong here. He's shown once again to be a man of principle who is quite prepared to walk away from something if he does not believe in it. He is somewhat of a hot head and seems to do a lot of things in the heat of the moment, but the fact that it took so long for this to be confirmed suggests that he was persuadable here, things could have been done to prevent him leaving, they weren't and the rest is history. For me the board take blame for this because KK as manager of NUFC was the best for the club IMO, not a DOF structure. Give KK the best environment to thieve in not expect him to compromise his own beliefs to fit within a structure that does not in his opinion play to his strengths. There was a small minority saying things werent right at the start of the transfer window, I think you were one of the people pretty vocal about telling us that we were wrong. Well it looks like we were proved to be right. Now you want to join this minority saying its not the board fault, well Im sorry but I sincerely doubt too many will ever share that opinion. afar, i was with you all summer on the spending thing but you're losing me here like they're both to blame, that's all there is too it

That's easy: The club's latest statements contradict their statements before the closing of the transfer window. Now we know that they lied. And we've all seen the interview with Keegan where he said the final decision to sell Milner was his. More lies? i honestly dont think the major falling out was over milner. i think it was more likely over the barton/ owen/ xisco/ gonzalez end day antics of the board We might never know for sure, but if people are accusing the board of telling lies about transfer policy then they also need to look at Keegan's part in keeping the pretense going. If the populist view is to be believed then Keegan had little or no say in transfers for 8 months, but chose to go along with it. We all know what Keegan is like and there is no way IMO that he would have stayed or stayed quiet for that length of time if he wasn't ok with the situation, and he certainly wouldn't have lied to the fans to cover for Ashley and co. if it was as bad as is being made out and he was genuinely unhappy. exactly edd - it all either points to something that wasn't cynical by the club but merely a breakdown over time between the parties involved OR keegan, as you say, was unhappy and had no say the whole time yet lied to the thousands of fans buying season tickets and let them pay 3 years in advance only to up ship and run at the last minute when it was all too late if you believe he was lied to from day one then he's equally culpable in this respect, no?

slightly improved? Out - In David Rozehnal - :colo: Emre - Guthrie Carr - Xisco Ramage - Bassong Faye - Nacho Milner - Jonas Granted there's not been much time to see how the new players are settling in, and Nacho is an unknown, and Xisco has only had one good season in spain, but on the other hand, we've got rid of some real dross, and I'm far, far happier with Jonas than Milner in the side. Of the players who have gone, I only rated Faye - rozenhal was clearly bobbins, emre's best days are behind him, carr and ramage, were clearly dogshite.... I'm happy to see any of the players we've brought in in the first team. It's a blatant, clear, definite improvement. All this bitching and moaning, and we've got a genuinely exciting team; one which can hold its own at manu ffs. Now then I know that KK had plenty to do with that, but don't take anything away from the players either. Am I gutted KK's gone? Sure, but the club's more than KK, and in all honesty, I'm over all this drama. KK and the board had a tiff, KK's done a runner, but we've still got the players, and I really, really don't think any great injustice has been done to us, I'm still far happier with Ashley in charge than Freddie, and I just want to get on with supporting Newcastle United. good stuff, right on the money

why? if the new guy knows the score and is comfotable with it, i.e. aligns his transfer targets (not necessarily names) with those of the people in charge then tell me why it couldn't work? they have this structure a fair bit on the continent don't they? oh, and all this talk of keegans list that people don't believe - if any of you think for a moment it will have been anywhere near the clubs "policy" then you're dreaming...i honestly think will have been closer to a ronaldinho than a xisco myself

probably some truth in that from kaka, very doubtful 100% as like johhnypd i've been a massive critic of the clubs spend & i doubt the bickering etc... would have stopped them spending if they intended to isn't that basically proven by the last day when they signed 2 players KK knew fuck all about (iirc)?

With the structure that has been put in place which the club are now claiming has been the case since Keegan was hired, what has happened with Keegan was totally inevitable sooner or later to anyone with even the most vague knowledge of the man. With what we are being told now, how can you say that it was a good appointment except from a financial point of view for Ashley (getting supporters to buy advance STs on the back of his appointment)? At best it was an incompetent appointment for the system to work, at worst a cynical one. no chance then, that as it was his first ever managerial appointment that he thought he might be able to get it all to work then? ashley i mean UV as always the forums split again into two camps - why couldn't it be that keegan was appointed with the best of intentions and things just didn't work out? to he was an incompetent appointment amazes me seeing as he virtually saved us from relegation, to read it as cynical says more about your preconceptions of the man to me Are you arguing that it wasn't obvious that Keegan was always likely to walk if he was not in charge of transfers (so not incompetence), or that getting a legendary manager in for 8 months to "virtually save us from relegation" and act as nothing more than a media facing figurehead during the off season while pretending to be in charge and asking supporters to sign up for 3 years in advance was not a cynical use of the man? In what possible way under the circumstances was Keegan a good appointment except in the short term for Ashley's bank balance? i don't even know where to start picking holes in this really as you've glossed over everything i said (as per) and asked a serious of questions that don't follow on from the last ones, but i'll start with this for a bit of balance: "act as nothing more than a media facing figurehead during the off season while pretending to be in charge" keegan was totally powerless here was he? what did they do, kidnap his dog and tell him he had to go in front of the cameras and tell them everything was fine...i'll guess that didn't happen so why do you think keegan said and did what he did? i'm guessing it was because over the course of the close season relationships broke down and culminated in the last day see what i'm getting at here? you're acting as if YOU KNOW that from minute of them bringing KK back he was imasculated by dennis wise and that was the plan all along are you really naive enough to believe that? next: "asking supporters to sign up for 3 years in advance" they asked, they didn't demand and from my recollection it wasn't a direct advertising campaign based on KK was it? it was a "cynical" means for the people with the cash to save themselves some money over the three years, and yes the club benefitted just as they did from the bond scheme and the platinum club and all the other shit of that ilk along the way - don't act like it's something fucking new just 'cause ashley did it lastly: "In what possible way under the circumstances was Keegan a good appointment except in the short term" how about saving us from relegation? irrelevant to you apparently...restoring some pride in fucking club after souness, roeder & allardyce - it's that refound 'pride' and 'fight' if you will that is seeing demonstrations at the ground and so on and so forth...we didn't see it when allardyce left did we? no because he was contributing to the demise of the club, keegan has redressed that balance this is for a lot of people, not just you; STOP ACTING LIKE SPOILT FUCKING BAIRNS WHO'VE BEEN UPSET BY BIG BAD MIKE, HE'S NOT THE DEVIL INCARNATE FOR CHRISTS SAKE...HE'S ASSERTED HIS AUTHORITY ON THE CLUB HE OWNS AT THE EXPENSE OF AN EMPLOYEE, ALBEIT ONE WE ALL LOVE to conclude getting keegan back when half the world thought it was a bad move, including me, and taking such a chance was a cynical moneymaking scheme is either childish or downright idiotic - the guy could have bombed and took us down...it was a gamble that paid off on the pitch but didn't work off it, that is all