Kaizero

The build-ups are the same as well, counters play out similarly and the defense also is similar in the way they drop back under pressure to soak it up. Difference is England has better players. When you see them side by side analyzed you'd likely also see Southgate is quite inspired by those tactics. Not that there's anything wrong with that choice for the team itself, Greece won. All I was saying was I was not entertained as a neutral, I'm still not, really. But the second half yesterday was a good watch for most of it.

They were the absolute worst. They made me hate football on a level I didn't know existed.

As I mentioned yesterday, Greece attacked more often than England has

So, you know, like Greece did. They won the thing. You might do so too. There's even been comparable analysis of the two on our coverage over here.

Nobody is saying England supporters shouldn't take that over exciting football.

If you look through my posts in this thread you will see that I've spoken highly of the 4-0, especially the beginning of the second half, as well as explained why I found the other matches boring as a neutral. I've also said that for the supporters the actual results are what matter, not the entertainment value, but as a neutral that matters more - also stating that if it was my team who did it I'd be happy with just winning no matter if we bored everyone else.

There's no defeat, I was not trying to change minds. I was stating my own opinion and then discussing that with posters who had a different opinion, it's all good natured fun. There would be no better place for me to get insight into the viewpoint actual English people have on their team's performance than here.

The NUFC side want the stuff in public so the PL can't worm their way out of it, essentially. Behind closed doors that would be a lot easier to do for the PL, and as such it would be a safer bet for NUFC if it was a public affair.

Let's just put a pin in it, I am cheering for England in the semis by a lot and I will be very happy if England wins the tournament. If NUFC or Norway applied similar tactics to win a trophy, I'd be over the moon. But as a neutral it's not as engaging to watch. However, seeing England like you played in the beginning of the second half today was what I hoped for before the tournament began and I hope you will bring that energy to the semis and final and win in style. I've not been too pleased with everything before that, having had high expectations of seeing your attacking players in full bloom before the tournament began, but that is my opinion and and I respect the differing viewpoints. Especially from the ones like@Optimistic Nutand @Super Duper Branko Struparwho've actually engaged in a proper discussion and explained their own viewpoints well. Posters like them, and many others, make this place the special place it is. I appreciate the opportunity of being able to discuss England with English people.

You quote that as if England didn't look quite bad against Scotland, I could quote tons of English reactions to team selections and so on if we're playing that game

I'm not saying I'm not happy for you guys, man I'm really, really, genuinely and thoroughly pleased and happy for you all. And don't act like if you wouldn't be complaining about Norway boring out the place if we didn't attack at all with Haaland leading the line and all the expectations surrounding watching him.

I've not been this bored watching a tournament team since EC 2004, hence for me it's an apt comparison The expectations I had for England and your attacking players probably helps push down the enjoyment as well as I just want to see them flourish. You guys have exciting players.

If the tables were turned and this sometime in the future, through some divine intervention or miracle, was Norway, I'd fully expect the roles to be reversed in this thread, to be fair

Because you don't hog the ball like Spain. Possession tonight was 49-51 in your favour. You had eleven men in your own half most of the time Ukraine were on the offense and committed few men to any attacks, which reminded me more of Greece and how they did it. The good thing to remember anyway is that Greece won it, it's not truly an insult when you think about it as you surely want to win

To a certain degree, going off memory. They completely shut Spain out in that group stage draw at least because that match wormed its way into my teenage brain due to its shitness

Would you say Greece in 2004 were defensive? If you do, there's not much objectively incorrect about stating England have been defensive. To win matches you do what you need to do, I'm not saying it's inherently wrong. I'm saying I've been disappointed due to your attacking talent not really getting to do anything - and your defensive display (which have been well done) have shut down the opposition, so it's been boring to watch compared to other games in this tournament, especially when I was looking forward to seeing your attacking players do their thing. Again, as a neutral.

There's no point in having an adult discussion with you given your consistent need to completely miss the points being made about any subject. Please keep me on ignore.

For the record, I'm very happy to see England in the semis and would be very happy if they won the entire thing. Seeing the Danes in a final would be soul-crushing so even if you hog the ball for 90 minutes and fluke in one goal I'll be cheering like there's no tomorrow. Fuck Denmark.

Greece had to defend due to lack of quality and had more shots on target and more goals, I don't see why the comparison isn't apt when I am arguing that you've been boring to watch as a neutral. I'm not attacking your own personal enjoyment of the England games, which will be at a completely different level than my own. I would be beyond happy if NUFC defended our way to a trophy myself, but I'd understand that people who didn't support us could've found us boring.

You looked more like what I expected pre-tournament in this match for sure and I hope that continues.

I've never said you haven't defended well or executed your tactics well. Greece did that too in 2004. Spain in 2010, as has also been mentioned. I'd much rather see an offensive England when you have the offensive talent you have at your disposal, though, as a neutral. Hence why I've been disappointing. People are going on like I don't actually like England. I like England, I want England to do well. I'm from one of the most Anglophile countries in the world where more people watch the PL each weekend than our own league I watched the game with three of my nephews today who are all mad for England and love Harry Kane.

Yeah, you've defended your way through the tournament. You've done it well to. It's been boring to watch as a neutral, though.

Immobile was laughably bad. I would be quite happy if England won the tournament, you've been boring but I like you.

That to a neutral it's been really boring to watch England in this tournament. I don't get why that is a harsh take at all. I've never said you don't deserve to be where you are or that you haven't executed the tactics you've planned well.

It doesn't matter to the English, and I've never said it did. I just said why I don't like this England version, as a neutral, and would prefer someone else to win - at the same time as acknowledging i fully believe you will win if you make the final. I don't get why there's an uproar, why the need to be defensive? Why not just say "yeah, I understand we're boring to a neutral viewer but I'm happy we've made it this far nonetheless, we've executed our tactics perfectly". Instead it's all vitriol and saying you're not boring