Kaizero

You only partly agree with the view he's been putting across, though. Which incidentially also is the part the rest of us also agree with. I've stated already if you are born in a country or have parents/grandparents that were,then you should be allowed to play for them. You'll be advocating a transfer market for international football next.It's like England sending scouts to Brazil to watch say U-12 footballers,offering the best players' parents fortunes and nice houses in England, to play for England when they are 20 or so.It isn't right man. I'm not advocating that at all, man. Have you even read my posts? I'm against nautralising players as adults, just not against letting people who've lived their whole life in a country play for that country because they were born somewhere else. But that's what Germany has done mate!!The scouting of young Brazilians/whoever by foreign scouts is surely what will happen next if it hasn't already.Some countries are traditionally unscrupulous in their pilgrimage to win at all costs. The only player that shouldn't be able to play for Germany in their WC squad is Cacau.

You only partly agree with the view he's been putting across, though. Which incidentially also is the part the rest of us also agree with. I've stated already if you are born in a country or have parents/grandparents that were,then you should be allowed to play for them. You'll be advocating a transfer market for international football next.It's like England sending scouts to Brazil to watch say U-12 footballers,offering the best players' parents fortunes and nice houses in England, to play for England when they are 20 or so.It isn't right man. I'm not advocating that at all, man. Have you even read my posts? I'm against nautralising players as adults, just not against letting people who've lived their whole life in a country play for that country because they were born somewhere else. Parky is advocating a complete blanket ban on anything but pure blooded footballers representing their nation.

Van Persie blaming the Vuvuzelas. Good lad.

You only partly agree with the view he's been putting across, though. Which incidentially also is the part the rest of us also agree with. Works the other way as well. When Germany and Turkey face off on Wednesday, June 25 there will be plenty of German spoken by both sides. The Turkish roster is filled with players from immigrant families who were not only born in Germany but made a name for themselves playing for their adopted country's clubs. So there is a certain amount of consternation that none of the talented German-Turkish players chose to play for Germany. "For most players of Turkish origin, decisions are taken based on family influences," former Germany player Matthias Sammer, now the sporting director of the German federation, told "DPA news agency." Top Turkish players Hamit Altintop and Hakan Balta are perfect examples. Both were born and played soccer for Gelsenkirchen and Berlin, respectively. There are many others like them, including Uemuez Davala, Yldiray Bastuerk, Altintop's brother, Halil, and Nuri Sahin, the youngster whom Arsenal coach Arsene Wenger has called one of the greatest talents in European football. They all chose the Ottoman crescent moon over the Prussian eagle. I know you live on a mountain top in Norway somewhere K but this is quite a hot debate in Germany about the makeup of the national team and also the problems as hightlighted by Beckenbauer of foreign born nationalts not singing the anthem. There was quite the backlash here in Germany about that. In a country of 4.7million, there's about 700-800 000 with immigrant background. I'd say Norwegians are well in their rights to comment about something like this. And also, almost no European footballers usually sing their national anthem. It's nothing new.

Hahaha Demark.

You only partly agree with the view he's been putting across, though. Which incidentially also is the part the rest of us also agree with.

The floodgates open if the Dutch score, as then Denmark needs to go forward and space will open for the Dutch.

I hear he's watching this Kuyt fella.

I don't agree fully with your bracket, but I'd bet on you going out in the quarters or semis on pens regardless of opposition.

Messi and Arteta example fail as clearly you shouldn't be able to make use of the five year rule to play for another country. And what if a person's passport says they're German? That's a fact, even if they're born in Poland. They should be able to represent their country as long as it's in a non-abusive fashion, meaning countries farming players just to use them for their national team. I don't see how Germany could have farmed Podolski and Klose to become players on their national team when they were two and six years old, though. "Oh hey, those two toddlers look like they'll be world beaters in 20-something years, let's bring them to Germany." Personally, I think a footballer signing a professional contract with a professional club should declare which nation he will represent from the available ones (parents, birth, citizenship) at the latest at 18 years old (or earlier, depending on when the professional contract is signed.) It is somewhat fasicst to say that someone who's lived their entire life in a country shouldn't get to represent it because he wasn't born in it, it's not how the world works today and football needs to evolve with it or we'll end up with no International football as nobody can represent anybody. That's a total contradiction there mate. Because if you shouldn't be able to make use of citizenship, then you shouldn't be able to make use of a passport when you weren't born in that country, and your parents aren't from that country. Are you saying that there's a limit on when you stop becoming, for example being Spanish, and suddenly factually become English? The whole thing about the toddlers and kids thing isn't my point at all, I'm not suggesting at all that Germany thought about them playing for Germany when they were kids (howeh man, what do you take me for?) What I'm saying is some players move from one country to another at a young age specifically for football (Messi to Spain for example) and although they aren't farmed, when they become successful professionals and haven't represented their country of birth, or where their parents are from, then they can play for the country they've grown up in, specifically because of football. Finally, it's not fascist at all, and I resent your use of that word tbh. First of all, I didn't say that you shouldn't represent a country if you weren't born there. What I actually said was you shouldn't be able to represent a country if you weren't born there, AND/OR neither of your parents were born there. Also, you're not getting the point, if you're saying that players should be able to play for a country that they weren't born in, or don't have parents from then basically you may as well go the whole way and say that the World Cup is fascist because it separates countries when really, as long as you've lived somewhere for an extended period of your life, you can play for wherever. I'm not saying there should be rules of extended heritage, because really most of us are all mongoloids anyway, and that would be fascist. What I'm saying is that there should be a rule of being 2nd generation in play, to stop it from making all borders pointless, and allowing countries like Germany to have a catchment area where basically it's Eastern Europe, and not Germany at all. I think that idea gives a clear, defined and fair guideline, that subtracts any ambiguity, and allows there to be a system that cannot disregard the idea of one country vs another, it stops their being any potential abuse of the system, and it still allows the individual a maximum of three different choices (place of birth, place of mothers birth, place of fathers birth). I think that plays into the hands of both common sense, fairness, and equality. I'll blame my contradictions on not having slept for almost two days, and my comment about fascism is more aimed at Parky than you. In general, I think you and I agree on the basics. Only difference being you want 2nd generation, and I want declaration of country before a certain age. Aye, it seems that way. Also, the bit in bold, I'd go along with that, but from when until when? Say you have to declare before 18, then how long do you need to have been there from? What if you miss out by one day? There's tons more questions that would bring unfair situations into play imo. That's why I think the clear defining line of birth takes away any ambiguity. Yeah, I see your point. But it'll also be clear to whoever comes to a new country after turning 13 that they'll be inelligible for playing for that country, if you are too late you are too late, it'd feel unfair to the people involved but overall it would be a fair rule that would not fully dillute a national team. That said, I'd definitely back 2nd generation if offered. Both options are good to make a national team still mean something at the same time as adapting to the new "smaller" world. I'm sorry for calling you fascist by the way, I'm just easily going OTT at the mo, seriously need some shut eye soon.

Messi and Arteta example fail as clearly you shouldn't be able to make use of the five year rule to play for another country. And what if a person's passport says they're German? That's a fact, even if they're born in Poland. They should be able to represent their country as long as it's in a non-abusive fashion, meaning countries farming players just to use them for their national team. I don't see how Germany could have farmed Podolski and Klose to become players on their national team when they were two and six years old, though. "Oh hey, those two toddlers look like they'll be world beaters in 20-something years, let's bring them to Germany." Personally, I think a footballer signing a professional contract with a professional club should declare which nation he will represent from the available ones (parents, birth, citizenship) at the latest at 18 years old (or earlier, depending on when the professional contract is signed.) It is somewhat fasicst to say that someone who's lived their entire life in a country shouldn't get to represent it because he wasn't born in it, it's not how the world works today and football needs to evolve with it or we'll end up with no International football as nobody can represent anybody. That's a total contradiction there mate. Because if you shouldn't be able to make use of citizenship, then you shouldn't be able to make use of a passport when you weren't born in that country, and your parents aren't from that country. Are you saying that there's a limit on when you stop becoming, for example being Spanish, and suddenly factually become English? The whole thing about the toddlers and kids thing isn't my point at all, I'm not suggesting at all that Germany thought about them playing for Germany when they were kids (howeh man, what do you take me for?) What I'm saying is some players move from one country to another at a young age specifically for football (Messi to Spain for example) and although they aren't farmed, when they become successful professionals and haven't represented their country of birth, or where their parents are from, then they can play for the country they've grown up in, specifically because of football. Finally, it's not fascist at all, and I resent your use of that word tbh. First of all, I didn't say that you shouldn't represent a country if you weren't born there. What I actually said was you shouldn't be able to represent a country if you weren't born there, AND/OR neither of your parents were born there. Also, you're not getting the point, if you're saying that players should be able to play for a country that they weren't born in, or don't have parents from then basically you may as well go the whole way and say that the World Cup is fascist because it separates countries when really, as long as you've lived somewhere for an extended period of your life, you can play for wherever. I'm not saying there should be rules of extended heritage, because really most of us are all mongoloids anyway, and that would be fascist. What I'm saying is that there should be a rule of being 2nd generation in play, to stop it from making all borders pointless, and allowing countries like Germany to have a catchment area where basically it's Eastern Europe, and not Germany at all. I think that idea gives a clear, defined and fair guideline, that subtracts any ambiguity, and allows there to be a system that cannot disregard the idea of one country vs another, it stops their being any potential abuse of the system, and it still allows the individual a maximum of three different choices (place of birth, place of mothers birth, place of fathers birth). I think that plays into the hands of both common sense, fairness, and equality. I'll blame my contradictions on not having slept for almost two days, and my comment about fascism is more aimed at Parky than you. In general, I think you and I agree on the basics. Only difference being you want 2nd generation, and I want declaration of country before a certain age.

Messi and Arteta example fail as clearly you shouldn't be able to make use of the five year rule to play for another country. And what if a person's passport says they're German? That's a fact, even if they're born in Poland. They should be able to represent their country as long as it's in a non-abusive fashion, meaning countries farming players just to use them for their national team. I don't see how Germany could have farmed Podolski and Klose to become players on their national team when they were two and six years old, though. "Oh hey, those two toddlers look like they'll be world beaters in 20-something years, let's bring them to Germany." Personally, I think a footballer signing a professional contract with a professional club should declare which nation he will represent from the available ones (parents, birth, citizenship) at the latest at 18 years old (or earlier, depending on when the professional contract is signed.) It is somewhat fasicst to say that someone who's lived their entire life in a country shouldn't get to represent it because he wasn't born in it, it's not how the world works today and football needs to evolve with it or we'll end up with no International football as nobody can represent anybody.

Police clashing with stewards, that's a new one Probably mistake eachother for hooligans since they're not blowing any vuvuzelas.

I'd take Deuce for no other reason than Don't Tread, man. I still can't get over it.

The WC is great, even if subjects like this come up.

That would never happen though. That's the wierdness. Because of the historic tension between the countries, it can't be anything else since they're happy to farm Brazilians to play for them. It's also simply the case that the Korean-Japanese players so far haven't been that good. The only one there could have been any sort of row over so far has been Chong Tae-se, and he burst on the scene after he had already declared for North Korea so there was very little anybody could do about it. Bloody shame that, what we could have done with him playing up front with Park in our front line It's just wierd, the guy has parents with South Korean passports, lived in Japan all his life, and chooses to play for North Korea. You can't really look away from bribes/threaths when it comes to a player declaring themselves for North Korea though.

You mean like Ryan Giggs? Well that's my point. It depends on the loyalties of the individual, not the piece of paper. Wasn't Michael Owen in the same boat? No. Owen is ethnically English. Owen actually proves my point in that he attended school in Wales but still played for England. So Google tells me he was born in an English hospital across the border to English parents, but spent his entire childhood in Wales. If he hadn't have been talented enough to get scouted by professional scouts at a relatively young age, it's entirely conceivable that he would have spent his life in Wales. But he would never have been eligible to play for Wales, because there is no way to acquire Welsh 'citizenship' in the same way that Podolski acquired German citizenship. It's really surprising that the home nations have maintained this special dispensation from FIFA for so long. There's no five year rule in the UK I think, for British people that is, because Wales, Scotland and Norn Ireland aren't "real" countries. Apparently there is. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1285321/Andrew-Driver-moon-FIFA-rule-change-allows-Hearts-star-play-Scotland.html That would've made Owen eligible for Wales then if it wasn't a new rule. It's a good rule change for the rest of the UK countries, IMO.

You mean like Ryan Giggs? Well that's my point. It depends on the loyalties of the individual, not the piece of paper. Wasn't Michael Owen in the same boat? No. Owen is ethnically English. Owen actually proves my point in that he attended school in Wales but still played for England. So Google tells me he was born in an English hospital across the border to English parents, but spent his entire childhood in Wales. If he hadn't have been talented enough to get scouted by professional scouts at a relatively young age, it's entirely conceivable that he would have spent his life in Wales. But he would never have been eligible to play for Wales, because there is no way to acquire Welsh 'citizenship' in the same way that Podolski acquired German citizenship. It's really surprising that the home nations have maintained this special dispensation from FIFA for so long. There's no five year rule in the UK I think, for British people that is, because Wales, Scotland and Norn Ireland aren't "real" countries.

That would never happen though. That's the wierdness. Because of the historic tension between the countries, it can't be anything else since they're happy to farm Brazilians to play for them.

You mean like Ryan Giggs? He was very close to his grandparents, and was apparently very traumatized when they moved when he was six, so they visited almost every weekend and school holidays. It's very understandable that he'd want to represent Wales for his grandparents even if living most of his life in Manchester. Klose was not close with anyone from his area, and lived most of his early years in France before they settled in Germany.

Holland -1 Italy Brazil -1 £50 @ 6.70 returns £335

Podolski and Klose aren't "really" Polish though. Klose moved to Germany when he was six (after also probably spending more than 50% of their time before this in France where his father was playing football.), Podolski moved when he was two. How can you expect someone moving that young to have any real feelings toward a country they've only lived in for a very small amount of their life? Also Podolski's paternal family belonged to the German minority in Upper Silesia before they moved. FIFA can't go around telling people if they have proper citizenship or not. An Algerian moving to France at the age of two, could conceivably grow up identifying himself as an Algerian rather than a Frenchman for a number of racial, religious and social reasons. A Welsh child growing up in England from the same age is probably not going to have that sort of attachment to his place of birth. But who the f*** knows. You'll never be able to draw the line and I'm not sure why you'd want to. I don't want to draw a line. I'm fine with people representing the country they want to on most occasions. (The exception are the Brazilians and so on that change their nationality only to play at a tournament, not because they feel like they are more that nationality than Brazilian.) In general, I'd probably only want to implement a rule of having to declare a nation when you're young, or not allowing the "five year rule" (most countries have five years before you can become a citizen) to apply to International football. I agree, the real problem here is the five year rule, not the fact that players can choose which of their countries they want to play for. Also the grandfather rule. It might be a good idea to change it to being able to choose either your country of birth or your parent's country What if you like Podolski, only lived two years in your birth country and the rest of your life in another? Okay, never mind actually. England wouldn't be able to call upon the services of the mighty Shola either under my rule. It's obviously crap. It could be sorted by declaring your nation of choice by 18, and being able to choose from the country of your parents, your country of birth, or your country of citizenship. Would at least make it so you can't exploit the five year rule, which is the main problem. Grandparent rule need to go as well, as you said.

Podolski and Klose aren't "really" Polish though. Klose moved to Germany when he was six (after also probably spending more than 50% of their time before this in France where his father was playing football.), Podolski moved when he was two. How can you expect someone moving that young to have any real feelings toward a country they've only lived in for a very small amount of their life? Also Podolski's paternal family belonged to the German minority in Upper Silesia before they moved. FIFA can't go around telling people if they have proper citizenship or not. An Algerian moving to France at the age of two, could conceivably grow up identifying himself as an Algerian rather than a Frenchman for a number of racial, religious and social reasons. A Welsh child growing up in England from the same age is probably not going to have that sort of attachment to his place of birth. But who the f*** knows. You'll never be able to draw the line and I'm not sure why you'd want to. I don't want to draw a line. I'm fine with people representing the country they want to on most occasions. (The exception are the Brazilians and so on that change their nationality only to play at a tournament, not because they feel like they are more that nationality than Brazilian.) In general, I'd probably only want to implement a rule of having to declare a nation when you're young, or not allowing the "five year rule" (most countries have five years before you can become a citizen) to apply to International football. I agree, the real problem here is the five year rule, not the fact that players can choose which of their countries they want to play for. Also the grandfather rule. It might be a good idea to change it to being able to choose either your country of birth or your parent's country What if you like Podolski, only lived two years in your birth country and the rest of your life in another?

Podolski and Klose aren't "really" Polish though. Klose moved to Germany when he was six (after also probably spending more than 50% of their time before this in France where his father was playing football.), Podolski moved when he was two. How can you expect someone moving that young to have any real feelings toward a country they've only lived in for a very small amount of their life? Also Podolski's paternal family belonged to the German minority in Upper Silesia before they moved. FIFA can't go around telling people if they have proper citizenship or not. An Algerian moving to France at the age of two, could conceivably grow up identifying himself as an Algerian rather than a Frenchman for a number of racial, religious and social reasons. A Welsh child growing up in England from the same age is probably not going to have that sort of attachment to his place of birth. But who the f*** knows. You'll never be able to draw the line and I'm not sure why you'd want to. I don't want to draw a line. I'm fine with people representing the country they want to on most occasions. (The exception are the Brazilians and so on that change their nationality only to play at a tournament, not because they feel like they are more that nationality than Brazilian.) In general, I'd probably only want to implement a rule of having to declare a nation when you're young, or not allowing the "five year rule" (most countries have five years before you can become a citizen) to apply to International football.

Miss Tweedy has retired though, sport.es isn't updated on WAG events.