Kaizero

You only partly agree with the view he's been putting across, though. Which incidentially also is the part the rest of us also agree with. I've stated already if you are born in a country or have parents/grandparents that were,then you should be allowed to play for them. You'll be advocating a transfer market for international football next.It's like England sending scouts to Brazil to watch say U-12 footballers,offering the best players' parents fortunes and nice houses in England, to play for England when they are 20 or so.It isn't right man. I'm not advocating that at all, man. Have you even read my posts? I'm against nautralising players as adults, just not against letting people who've lived their whole life in a country play for that country because they were born somewhere else. But that's what Germany has done mate!!The scouting of young Brazilians/whoever by foreign scouts is surely what will happen next if it hasn't already.Some countries are traditionally unscrupulous in their pilgrimage to win at all costs. The only player that shouldn't be able to play for Germany in their WC squad is Cacau. Imagine Germany vs Norway in the WC final.Cacau,as he did yesterday,makes a preposterous dive in the box.The ref buys it,gives the penalty,Cacau gets up and scores the pen,and wins the Cup for his adopted nation.You'd be really happy wouldn't you? I'd be sad Norway lost, but I'd not give a shit if it was Cacau that scored. Even when you believe he shouldn't be on the pitch because he's not in the slightest bit German?? Pull the other one Kaiz. He plays for Germany, he should get to represent Germany. I don't agree with the rule in Cacau's, but it's there, and so be it. Spot the contradiction. I'm saying I don't agree with the rule, but it's in place so there's nothing I could do with it, so in the event you're describing I would, instead of complaining, move on?

You only partly agree with the view he's been putting across, though. Which incidentially also is the part the rest of us also agree with. I've stated already if you are born in a country or have parents/grandparents that were,then you should be allowed to play for them. You'll be advocating a transfer market for international football next.It's like England sending scouts to Brazil to watch say U-12 footballers,offering the best players' parents fortunes and nice houses in England, to play for England when they are 20 or so.It isn't right man. I'm not advocating that at all, man. Have you even read my posts? I'm against nautralising players as adults, just not against letting people who've lived their whole life in a country play for that country because they were born somewhere else. Parky is advocating a complete blanket ban on anything but pure blooded footballers representing their nation. Nothing to do with pure blood or race where you're born is it. English black players play for Eng cause they're born in England not cause they have Caucasian blood. Really quite concerned the amount of insinuations you've managed to level at this thread notwithstand that fifa are worried about it...I supposee fifa, Beckanbauer and half the German nation are talking shit and you living in some skiing village know what's what. Mind boggling. Random insults without trying to back up your point properly is just annoying, you really don't know how to debate something, do you? You're like the NE5 of politics. And it's not the first time the German nation have been talking shit. I've quoted 5 articles backing my point and also the concerns fifa have, but mountain boy who doesn't live in the same country as the person he's agruing wiht knows best. You should work on it, stand up isn't far off. Mountain boy? Really? That's what you're going with? Few countries in Europe accept more immigrants to their country (in comparison to the already established inhabitant number) than Norway, there's few countries that have a better view of just how immigration effects your society in general than Norway. As I said, 700-800 000 in 4.7 Million are people with immigrant background, that's pretty much one in six "Norwegians" with an immigrant background. Saying people with immigrant background should not get to choose between representing their original country or their new country, is an idiotic and old viewpoint. I do not agree with the farming of players when they've reached adulthood, but that's hardly a major problem and will never be a major problem. Just the odd player here and there not really belonging to their country they're representing, and I can look past that. Does your stance on this coincide with there may be a few budding Norwegian internationals amongst these immigrants that have settled in Norway? There already is. Having a problem with that, for any country, is a problem though. It's pretty much calling our new citizens second-rate and unpure.

You only partly agree with the view he's been putting across, though. Which incidentially also is the part the rest of us also agree with. I've stated already if you are born in a country or have parents/grandparents that were,then you should be allowed to play for them. You'll be advocating a transfer market for international football next.It's like England sending scouts to Brazil to watch say U-12 footballers,offering the best players' parents fortunes and nice houses in England, to play for England when they are 20 or so.It isn't right man. I'm not advocating that at all, man. Have you even read my posts? I'm against nautralising players as adults, just not against letting people who've lived their whole life in a country play for that country because they were born somewhere else. But that's what Germany has done mate!!The scouting of young Brazilians/whoever by foreign scouts is surely what will happen next if it hasn't already.Some countries are traditionally unscrupulous in their pilgrimage to win at all costs. The only player that shouldn't be able to play for Germany in their WC squad is Cacau. Imagine Germany vs Norway in the WC final.Cacau,as he did yesterday,makes a preposterous dive in the box.The ref buys it,gives the penalty,Cacau gets up and scores the pen,and wins the Cup for his adopted nation.You'd be really happy wouldn't you? I'd be sad Norway lost, but I'd not give a shit if it was Cacau that scored. Even when you believe he shouldn't be on the pitch because he's not in the slightest bit German?? Pull the other one Kaiz. He plays for Germany, he should get to represent Germany. I don't agree with the rule in Cacau's, but it's there, and so be it.

You only partly agree with the view he's been putting across, though. Which incidentially also is the part the rest of us also agree with. I've stated already if you are born in a country or have parents/grandparents that were,then you should be allowed to play for them. You'll be advocating a transfer market for international football next.It's like England sending scouts to Brazil to watch say U-12 footballers,offering the best players' parents fortunes and nice houses in England, to play for England when they are 20 or so.It isn't right man. I'm not advocating that at all, man. Have you even read my posts? I'm against nautralising players as adults, just not against letting people who've lived their whole life in a country play for that country because they were born somewhere else. Parky is advocating a complete blanket ban on anything but pure blooded footballers representing their nation. Nothing to do with pure blood or race where you're born is it. English black players play for Eng cause they're born in England not cause they have Caucasian blood. Really quite concerned the amount of insinuations you've managed to level at this thread notwithstand that fifa are worried about it...I supposee fifa, Beckanbauer and half the German nation are talking shit and you living in some skiing village know what's what. Mind boggling. Random insults without trying to back up your point properly is just annoying, you really don't know how to debate something, do you? You're like the NE5 of politics. And it's not the first time the German nation have been talking shit. I've quoted 5 articles backing my point and also the concerns fifa have, but mountain boy who doesn't live in the same country as the person he's agruing wiht knows best. You should work on it, stand up isn't far off. Mountain boy? Really? That's what you're going with? Few countries in Europe accept more immigrants to their country (in comparison to the already established inhabitant number) than Norway, there's few countries that have a better view of just how immigration effects your society in general than Norway. As I said, 700-800 000 in 4.7 Million are people with immigrant background, that's pretty much one in six "Norwegians" with an immigrant background. Saying people with immigrant background should not get to choose between representing their original country or their new country, is an idiotic and old viewpoint. I do not agree with the farming of players when they've reached adulthood, but that's hardly a major problem and will never be a major problem. Just the odd player here and there not really belonging to their country they're representing, and I can look past that.

You only partly agree with the view he's been putting across, though. Which incidentially also is the part the rest of us also agree with. I've stated already if you are born in a country or have parents/grandparents that were,then you should be allowed to play for them. You'll be advocating a transfer market for international football next.It's like England sending scouts to Brazil to watch say U-12 footballers,offering the best players' parents fortunes and nice houses in England, to play for England when they are 20 or so.It isn't right man. I'm not advocating that at all, man. Have you even read my posts? I'm against nautralising players as adults, just not against letting people who've lived their whole life in a country play for that country because they were born somewhere else. But that's what Germany has done mate!!The scouting of young Brazilians/whoever by foreign scouts is surely what will happen next if it hasn't already.Some countries are traditionally unscrupulous in their pilgrimage to win at all costs. The only player that shouldn't be able to play for Germany in their WC squad is Cacau. Imagine Germany vs Norway in the WC final.Cacau,as he did yesterday,makes a preposterous dive in the box.The ref buys it,gives the penalty,Cacau gets up and scores the pen,and wins the Cup for his adopted nation.You'd be really happy wouldn't you? I'd be sad Norway lost, but I'd not give a shit if it was Cacau that scored.

You only partly agree with the view he's been putting across, though. Which incidentially also is the part the rest of us also agree with. I've stated already if you are born in a country or have parents/grandparents that were,then you should be allowed to play for them. You'll be advocating a transfer market for international football next.It's like England sending scouts to Brazil to watch say U-12 footballers,offering the best players' parents fortunes and nice houses in England, to play for England when they are 20 or so.It isn't right man. I'm not advocating that at all, man. Have you even read my posts? I'm against nautralising players as adults, just not against letting people who've lived their whole life in a country play for that country because they were born somewhere else. Parky is advocating a complete blanket ban on anything but pure blooded footballers representing their nation. Nothing to do with pure blood or race where you're born is it. English black players play for Eng cause they're born in England not cause they have Caucasian blood. Really quite concerned the amount of insinuations you've managed to level at this thread notwithstand that fifa are worried about it...I supposee fifa, Beckanbauer and half the German nation are talking shit and you living in some skiing village know what's what. Mind boggling. Random insults without trying to back up your point properly is just annoying, you really don't know how to debate something, do you? You're like the NE5 of politics. And it's not the first time the German nation have been talking shit.

You only partly agree with the view he's been putting across, though. Which incidentially also is the part the rest of us also agree with. I've stated already if you are born in a country or have parents/grandparents that were,then you should be allowed to play for them. You'll be advocating a transfer market for international football next.It's like England sending scouts to Brazil to watch say U-12 footballers,offering the best players' parents fortunes and nice houses in England, to play for England when they are 20 or so.It isn't right man. I'm not advocating that at all, man. Have you even read my posts? I'm against nautralising players as adults, just not against letting people who've lived their whole life in a country play for that country because they were born somewhere else. But that's what Germany has done mate!!The scouting of young Brazilians/whoever by foreign scouts is surely what will happen next if it hasn't already.Some countries are traditionally unscrupulous in their pilgrimage to win at all costs. The only player that shouldn't be able to play for Germany in their WC squad is Cacau. Not what the Poles think though is it? The Poles have, and should have, no say in demanding someone who's almost never lived in their country to play for them.

You only partly agree with the view he's been putting across, though. Which incidentially also is the part the rest of us also agree with. I've stated already if you are born in a country or have parents/grandparents that were,then you should be allowed to play for them. You'll be advocating a transfer market for international football next.It's like England sending scouts to Brazil to watch say U-12 footballers,offering the best players' parents fortunes and nice houses in England, to play for England when they are 20 or so.It isn't right man. I'm astounded that people can't see that unless something is done, richer countries will hoover up young talent. Germany are also in a massively advantagous postion situated as they are in the middle of Europe with a huge multi-german ethnic German diaspora - extended families of Croatians, Serbs, Hungarians, czechs right through to Latvians and now some Russians. Are people really that naive to think that Germany hasn't started to take advantage of that. The modern world is becoming a place without borders, everyone can take advantage of it, as will be highlighted in the coming years when England as well starts picking people with immigrant background. Embrace it and accept it.

You only partly agree with the view he's been putting across, though. Which incidentially also is the part the rest of us also agree with. I've stated already if you are born in a country or have parents/grandparents that were,then you should be allowed to play for them. You'll be advocating a transfer market for international football next.It's like England sending scouts to Brazil to watch say U-12 footballers,offering the best players' parents fortunes and nice houses in England, to play for England when they are 20 or so.It isn't right man. I'm not advocating that at all, man. Have you even read my posts? I'm against nautralising players as adults, just not against letting people who've lived their whole life in a country play for that country because they were born somewhere else. But that's what Germany has done mate!!The scouting of young Brazilians/whoever by foreign scouts is surely what will happen next if it hasn't already.Some countries are traditionally unscrupulous in their pilgrimage to win at all costs. The only player that shouldn't be able to play for Germany in their WC squad is Cacau.

You only partly agree with the view he's been putting across, though. Which incidentially also is the part the rest of us also agree with. I've stated already if you are born in a country or have parents/grandparents that were,then you should be allowed to play for them. You'll be advocating a transfer market for international football next.It's like England sending scouts to Brazil to watch say U-12 footballers,offering the best players' parents fortunes and nice houses in England, to play for England when they are 20 or so.It isn't right man. I'm not advocating that at all, man. Have you even read my posts? I'm against nautralising players as adults, just not against letting people who've lived their whole life in a country play for that country because they were born somewhere else. Parky is advocating a complete blanket ban on anything but pure blooded footballers representing their nation.

Van Persie blaming the Vuvuzelas. Good lad.

You only partly agree with the view he's been putting across, though. Which incidentially also is the part the rest of us also agree with. Works the other way as well. When Germany and Turkey face off on Wednesday, June 25 there will be plenty of German spoken by both sides. The Turkish roster is filled with players from immigrant families who were not only born in Germany but made a name for themselves playing for their adopted country's clubs. So there is a certain amount of consternation that none of the talented German-Turkish players chose to play for Germany. "For most players of Turkish origin, decisions are taken based on family influences," former Germany player Matthias Sammer, now the sporting director of the German federation, told "DPA news agency." Top Turkish players Hamit Altintop and Hakan Balta are perfect examples. Both were born and played soccer for Gelsenkirchen and Berlin, respectively. There are many others like them, including Uemuez Davala, Yldiray Bastuerk, Altintop's brother, Halil, and Nuri Sahin, the youngster whom Arsenal coach Arsene Wenger has called one of the greatest talents in European football. They all chose the Ottoman crescent moon over the Prussian eagle. I know you live on a mountain top in Norway somewhere K but this is quite a hot debate in Germany about the makeup of the national team and also the problems as hightlighted by Beckenbauer of foreign born nationalts not singing the anthem. There was quite the backlash here in Germany about that. In a country of 4.7million, there's about 700-800 000 with immigrant background. I'd say Norwegians are well in their rights to comment about something like this. And also, almost no European footballers usually sing their national anthem. It's nothing new.

Hahaha Demark.

You only partly agree with the view he's been putting across, though. Which incidentially also is the part the rest of us also agree with.

The floodgates open if the Dutch score, as then Denmark needs to go forward and space will open for the Dutch.

I hear he's watching this Kuyt fella.

I don't agree fully with your bracket, but I'd bet on you going out in the quarters or semis on pens regardless of opposition.

Messi and Arteta example fail as clearly you shouldn't be able to make use of the five year rule to play for another country. And what if a person's passport says they're German? That's a fact, even if they're born in Poland. They should be able to represent their country as long as it's in a non-abusive fashion, meaning countries farming players just to use them for their national team. I don't see how Germany could have farmed Podolski and Klose to become players on their national team when they were two and six years old, though. "Oh hey, those two toddlers look like they'll be world beaters in 20-something years, let's bring them to Germany." Personally, I think a footballer signing a professional contract with a professional club should declare which nation he will represent from the available ones (parents, birth, citizenship) at the latest at 18 years old (or earlier, depending on when the professional contract is signed.) It is somewhat fasicst to say that someone who's lived their entire life in a country shouldn't get to represent it because he wasn't born in it, it's not how the world works today and football needs to evolve with it or we'll end up with no International football as nobody can represent anybody. That's a total contradiction there mate. Because if you shouldn't be able to make use of citizenship, then you shouldn't be able to make use of a passport when you weren't born in that country, and your parents aren't from that country. Are you saying that there's a limit on when you stop becoming, for example being Spanish, and suddenly factually become English? The whole thing about the toddlers and kids thing isn't my point at all, I'm not suggesting at all that Germany thought about them playing for Germany when they were kids (howeh man, what do you take me for?) What I'm saying is some players move from one country to another at a young age specifically for football (Messi to Spain for example) and although they aren't farmed, when they become successful professionals and haven't represented their country of birth, or where their parents are from, then they can play for the country they've grown up in, specifically because of football. Finally, it's not fascist at all, and I resent your use of that word tbh. First of all, I didn't say that you shouldn't represent a country if you weren't born there. What I actually said was you shouldn't be able to represent a country if you weren't born there, AND/OR neither of your parents were born there. Also, you're not getting the point, if you're saying that players should be able to play for a country that they weren't born in, or don't have parents from then basically you may as well go the whole way and say that the World Cup is fascist because it separates countries when really, as long as you've lived somewhere for an extended period of your life, you can play for wherever. I'm not saying there should be rules of extended heritage, because really most of us are all mongoloids anyway, and that would be fascist. What I'm saying is that there should be a rule of being 2nd generation in play, to stop it from making all borders pointless, and allowing countries like Germany to have a catchment area where basically it's Eastern Europe, and not Germany at all. I think that idea gives a clear, defined and fair guideline, that subtracts any ambiguity, and allows there to be a system that cannot disregard the idea of one country vs another, it stops their being any potential abuse of the system, and it still allows the individual a maximum of three different choices (place of birth, place of mothers birth, place of fathers birth). I think that plays into the hands of both common sense, fairness, and equality. I'll blame my contradictions on not having slept for almost two days, and my comment about fascism is more aimed at Parky than you. In general, I think you and I agree on the basics. Only difference being you want 2nd generation, and I want declaration of country before a certain age. Aye, it seems that way. Also, the bit in bold, I'd go along with that, but from when until when? Say you have to declare before 18, then how long do you need to have been there from? What if you miss out by one day? There's tons more questions that would bring unfair situations into play imo. That's why I think the clear defining line of birth takes away any ambiguity. Yeah, I see your point. But it'll also be clear to whoever comes to a new country after turning 13 that they'll be inelligible for playing for that country, if you are too late you are too late, it'd feel unfair to the people involved but overall it would be a fair rule that would not fully dillute a national team. That said, I'd definitely back 2nd generation if offered. Both options are good to make a national team still mean something at the same time as adapting to the new "smaller" world. I'm sorry for calling you fascist by the way, I'm just easily going OTT at the mo, seriously need some shut eye soon.

Messi and Arteta example fail as clearly you shouldn't be able to make use of the five year rule to play for another country. And what if a person's passport says they're German? That's a fact, even if they're born in Poland. They should be able to represent their country as long as it's in a non-abusive fashion, meaning countries farming players just to use them for their national team. I don't see how Germany could have farmed Podolski and Klose to become players on their national team when they were two and six years old, though. "Oh hey, those two toddlers look like they'll be world beaters in 20-something years, let's bring them to Germany." Personally, I think a footballer signing a professional contract with a professional club should declare which nation he will represent from the available ones (parents, birth, citizenship) at the latest at 18 years old (or earlier, depending on when the professional contract is signed.) It is somewhat fasicst to say that someone who's lived their entire life in a country shouldn't get to represent it because he wasn't born in it, it's not how the world works today and football needs to evolve with it or we'll end up with no International football as nobody can represent anybody. That's a total contradiction there mate. Because if you shouldn't be able to make use of citizenship, then you shouldn't be able to make use of a passport when you weren't born in that country, and your parents aren't from that country. Are you saying that there's a limit on when you stop becoming, for example being Spanish, and suddenly factually become English? The whole thing about the toddlers and kids thing isn't my point at all, I'm not suggesting at all that Germany thought about them playing for Germany when they were kids (howeh man, what do you take me for?) What I'm saying is some players move from one country to another at a young age specifically for football (Messi to Spain for example) and although they aren't farmed, when they become successful professionals and haven't represented their country of birth, or where their parents are from, then they can play for the country they've grown up in, specifically because of football. Finally, it's not fascist at all, and I resent your use of that word tbh. First of all, I didn't say that you shouldn't represent a country if you weren't born there. What I actually said was you shouldn't be able to represent a country if you weren't born there, AND/OR neither of your parents were born there. Also, you're not getting the point, if you're saying that players should be able to play for a country that they weren't born in, or don't have parents from then basically you may as well go the whole way and say that the World Cup is fascist because it separates countries when really, as long as you've lived somewhere for an extended period of your life, you can play for wherever. I'm not saying there should be rules of extended heritage, because really most of us are all mongoloids anyway, and that would be fascist. What I'm saying is that there should be a rule of being 2nd generation in play, to stop it from making all borders pointless, and allowing countries like Germany to have a catchment area where basically it's Eastern Europe, and not Germany at all. I think that idea gives a clear, defined and fair guideline, that subtracts any ambiguity, and allows there to be a system that cannot disregard the idea of one country vs another, it stops their being any potential abuse of the system, and it still allows the individual a maximum of three different choices (place of birth, place of mothers birth, place of fathers birth). I think that plays into the hands of both common sense, fairness, and equality. I'll blame my contradictions on not having slept for almost two days, and my comment about fascism is more aimed at Parky than you. In general, I think you and I agree on the basics. Only difference being you want 2nd generation, and I want declaration of country before a certain age.

Messi and Arteta example fail as clearly you shouldn't be able to make use of the five year rule to play for another country. And what if a person's passport says they're German? That's a fact, even if they're born in Poland. They should be able to represent their country as long as it's in a non-abusive fashion, meaning countries farming players just to use them for their national team. I don't see how Germany could have farmed Podolski and Klose to become players on their national team when they were two and six years old, though. "Oh hey, those two toddlers look like they'll be world beaters in 20-something years, let's bring them to Germany." Personally, I think a footballer signing a professional contract with a professional club should declare which nation he will represent from the available ones (parents, birth, citizenship) at the latest at 18 years old (or earlier, depending on when the professional contract is signed.) It is somewhat fasicst to say that someone who's lived their entire life in a country shouldn't get to represent it because he wasn't born in it, it's not how the world works today and football needs to evolve with it or we'll end up with no International football as nobody can represent anybody.

Police clashing with stewards, that's a new one Probably mistake eachother for hooligans since they're not blowing any vuvuzelas.

I'd take Deuce for no other reason than Don't Tread, man. I still can't get over it.

The WC is great, even if subjects like this come up.

That would never happen though. That's the wierdness. Because of the historic tension between the countries, it can't be anything else since they're happy to farm Brazilians to play for them. It's also simply the case that the Korean-Japanese players so far haven't been that good. The only one there could have been any sort of row over so far has been Chong Tae-se, and he burst on the scene after he had already declared for North Korea so there was very little anybody could do about it. Bloody shame that, what we could have done with him playing up front with Park in our front line It's just wierd, the guy has parents with South Korean passports, lived in Japan all his life, and chooses to play for North Korea. You can't really look away from bribes/threaths when it comes to a player declaring themselves for North Korea though.

You mean like Ryan Giggs? Well that's my point. It depends on the loyalties of the individual, not the piece of paper. Wasn't Michael Owen in the same boat? No. Owen is ethnically English. Owen actually proves my point in that he attended school in Wales but still played for England. So Google tells me he was born in an English hospital across the border to English parents, but spent his entire childhood in Wales. If he hadn't have been talented enough to get scouted by professional scouts at a relatively young age, it's entirely conceivable that he would have spent his life in Wales. But he would never have been eligible to play for Wales, because there is no way to acquire Welsh 'citizenship' in the same way that Podolski acquired German citizenship. It's really surprising that the home nations have maintained this special dispensation from FIFA for so long. There's no five year rule in the UK I think, for British people that is, because Wales, Scotland and Norn Ireland aren't "real" countries. Apparently there is. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1285321/Andrew-Driver-moon-FIFA-rule-change-allows-Hearts-star-play-Scotland.html That would've made Owen eligible for Wales then if it wasn't a new rule. It's a good rule change for the rest of the UK countries, IMO.