quayside

Would not any money spent/received on player transfers be included in the operating expenses (whether it be for transfers in the current year or for delayed payments for transfers in previous years) ? No - money spent on players isn't charged against profit in operating expenses in the year it is incurred. That money physically (okay, electronically) moves from one place to another in a particular year though doesn't it. Surely it must be accounted for somehow in that financial year? It gets shown as an asset in the balance sheet. It is then, as discussed, amortised through the annual results over the life of the contract. Eg If a player cost £10 million we record a £10 million asset in our balance sheet. Say its a 4 year contract so £2.5 million gets written off every year against the overall profit/loss for the year. If he's sold in year 4 his value has been written down to £2.5 million by then, if we get £8.5 million the profit is recorded as £6 million in the result for the year. FWIW Given will be on the books at zero so if he's sold its all profit.

A bit more info in response to some of the questins on here: 1) Income (last year in brackets) Matchday £32 million (£34 million) Media £41 million (£26 million) Commercial £26 million (£27 million) 2) Players wages £70 million (£65 million) bringing the ratio of wages/turnover down to 70% from 74%. 3) Cash flow in basic terms: Operating cash flow - £5 million Finance servicing costs - £8 million Net capital spend - £21 million Loan repayment - £70 million Total out = £104 million This was financed by : Ashley £100 million Overdraft £4 million Total £104 million

Would not any money spent/received on player transfers be included in the operating expenses (whether it be for transfers in the current year or for delayed payments for transfers in previous years) ? No - money spent on players isn't charged against profit in operating expenses in the year it is incurred.

When looking at buying up small business, our development team (where i work) dont talk to accountants to analyse the underlying strength of a prospective business. Quayside is just following the rules (quite right too). You should always talk to the accountant my man I would always argue that you should look at what type of amortisation it is before deciding if its a valid cost. The amortisation of non bought goodwill or some such should always be ignored for example. The increase in values of a player is highly subjective (just look at differeing views on here about someone like Oba) whereas what the player cost isn't at all subjective. In any case if the player leaves an increase in value is reflected as a profit on sale.

The accounts up to 30th June 2008 have now been filed for both Newcastle United Limited and St James Holdings Limited, the latter company is the parent company that Ashley has used for his investment in the club. Ok some points from both companies: • Income is up to £99 million from £87 million last year. As has been discussed on here this is due to the increase in tv money. • The club has made a pre tax loss of £20.5 million for the year, leaving the balance sheet technically insolvent to the tune of £36 million. Ernst and Young have signed off a clean audit report due to Ashley giving an undertaking that he will continue to support the club financially. • How is the loss made up? Loss before amortisation, player trading and exceptional items £2.2 million Allardyce blow out cost £4.7 million Amortisation of players contracts £17.8 million Interest paid on the old debt before Ashley paid it off £6.6 million Total loss from that lot = £31.3 million We then have a profit from disposal of players £10.8 million Leaving an overall loss of £20.5 million • The question that has been much discussed is how much Ashley has put into the club. And the answer is £100 million as a loan, £70 million of that was used to clear the old debt and £30 million has been put in to keep the club going. Since the 30th June he has put in a further £10 million of cash as working capital. He paid £138 million to buy the club, so his total investment is £248 million so far. • Note 26 to the accounts informs us that in last Summer's transfer window the club spent £13,615,000 on new players and sold players for £13,610,000. This represents a net spend of £5,000. The same note also tells us that Kevin Keegan resigned on the 4th September, there is no further comment in respect of this. There will inevitably be some discussion on here at some point about amortisation of players’ contracts and whether it should really count as a cost. In my opinion it should because if you ignore it you don’t reflect the money paid out for players. In other words if you ignore it you are basically saying we got Owen, Duff, Martins, Collo etc for nothing. Equally there is the argument that depreciation of the money spent on the stadium should not count but again I think it should. The revenue earned from the stadium is a decent chunk of income and it seems to me to be right to reflect some of the original cost of that asset in the results for the year. There’s a lot more going on in the accounts than that obviously but I hope that the above is of interest. And I hope its understandable, I tried not to get too technical other than the bit on amortisation

In one of the statements released by the club, they said something like 'club was still hemorrhaging money' or something along those lines, so are all the debts gone? I think the debt still exists its just owed to Ashley instead of a bank, probably with no interest attached (which is exactly what Roman did at Chelsea). The club may well be haemorrhaging money. We lost £12 million in the year to July 2007 and in that year we had European football and good attendances. Not much has changed to the cost base since then. Same overheads, same high wages etc. But the income is probably down since then so a loss is likely. And the only person who can fund that loss is Ashley. In answer to the thread - No. He's a chancer who hit the jackpot when he floated a dodgy chain of sports shops and thought it would be the ultimate toy to own a Premiership club. He had no idea what he was buying, didn't understand the importance of the club to the city of Newcastle, underestimated the ability of the fans to see through bullsh1t and he hasn't got a clue how to run it. Our best bet is somehow we survive and he finds a buyer in May. If the debts have been paid off then we won't have the same overheads, considering those debts were costing us around £8 million a year (can't remember the exact amount). Plus Premiership TV money has gone up by £20 million a season since then. The 2008 accounts have just been filed (today), and I'm looking at them now. There's obviously a lot to take in. The club made a loss of £20.3 million before tax, although turnover was up for the reason you refer to. Ashley stuck a loan of £100 million in, of which about £70 million was to pay off the old debt, the remaining £30 million was to fund working capital of the club basically. It cost £4.6 millionto get rid of Allardyce and co, and the in the final note it says Keegan resigned and it makes no reference to any compensation. Are you allowed to tell us this? Yes - the information is in the public domain. Every UK company must file accounts at Companies House. Anyone can access those accounts on the Companies House website for a fee of £1 per company. All this stuff you hear about not knowing what the finances are because the club isn't public is rubbish. Its easily available, you just have to wait for the accounts to be filed. As I said the accounts for the year to 30th June 2008 are now available for anyone to download. Any chance of a rundown of the important bits if you have time? Would be interesting to see. /Might be worth a new thread. OK - will try and do it later, very busy right now.

In one of the statements released by the club, they said something like 'club was still hemorrhaging money' or something along those lines, so are all the debts gone? I think the debt still exists its just owed to Ashley instead of a bank, probably with no interest attached (which is exactly what Roman did at Chelsea). The club may well be haemorrhaging money. We lost £12 million in the year to July 2007 and in that year we had European football and good attendances. Not much has changed to the cost base since then. Same overheads, same high wages etc. But the income is probably down since then so a loss is likely. And the only person who can fund that loss is Ashley. In answer to the thread - No. He's a chancer who hit the jackpot when he floated a dodgy chain of sports shops and thought it would be the ultimate toy to own a Premiership club. He had no idea what he was buying, didn't understand the importance of the club to the city of Newcastle, underestimated the ability of the fans to see through bullsh1t and he hasn't got a clue how to run it. Our best bet is somehow we survive and he finds a buyer in May. If the debts have been paid off then we won't have the same overheads, considering those debts were costing us around £8 million a year (can't remember the exact amount). Plus Premiership TV money has gone up by £20 million a season since then. The 2008 accounts have just been filed (today), and I'm looking at them now. There's obviously a lot to take in. The club made a loss of £20.3 million before tax, although turnover was up for the reason you refer to. Ashley stuck a loan of £100 million in, of which about £70 million was to pay off the old debt, the remaining £30 million was to fund working capital of the club basically. It cost £4.6 millionto get rid of Allardyce and co, and the in the final note it says Keegan resigned and it makes no reference to any compensation. Are you allowed to tell us this? Yes - the information is in the public domain. Every UK company must file accounts at Companies House. Anyone can access those accounts on the Companies House website for a fee of £1 per company. All this stuff you hear about not knowing what the finances are because the club isn't public is rubbish. Its easily available, you just have to wait for the accounts to be filed. As I said the accounts for the year to 30th June 2008 are now available for anyone to download.

In one of the statements released by the club, they said something like 'club was still hemorrhaging money' or something along those lines, so are all the debts gone? I think the debt still exists its just owed to Ashley instead of a bank, probably with no interest attached (which is exactly what Roman did at Chelsea). The club may well be haemorrhaging money. We lost £12 million in the year to July 2007 and in that year we had European football and good attendances. Not much has changed to the cost base since then. Same overheads, same high wages etc. But the income is probably down since then so a loss is likely. And the only person who can fund that loss is Ashley. In answer to the thread - No. He's a chancer who hit the jackpot when he floated a dodgy chain of sports shops and thought it would be the ultimate toy to own a Premiership club. He had no idea what he was buying, didn't understand the importance of the club to the city of Newcastle, underestimated the ability of the fans to see through bullsh1t and he hasn't got a clue how to run it. Our best bet is somehow we survive and he finds a buyer in May. If the debts have been paid off then we won't have the same overheads, considering those debts were costing us around £8 million a year (can't remember the exact amount). Plus Premiership TV money has gone up by £20 million a season since then. The 2008 accounts have just been filed (today), and I'm looking at them now. There's obviously a lot to take in. The club made a loss of £20.3 million before tax, although turnover was up for the reason you refer to. Ashley stuck a loan of £100 million in, of which about £70 million was to pay off the old debt, the remaining £30 million was to fund working capital of the club basically. It cost £4.6 millionto get rid of Allardyce and co, and the in the final note it says Keegan resigned and it makes no reference to any compensation.

In one of the statements released by the club, they said something like 'club was still hemorrhaging money' or something along those lines, so are all the debts gone? I think the debt still exists its just owed to Ashley instead of a bank, probably with no interest attached (which is exactly what Roman did at Chelsea). The club may well be haemorrhaging money. We lost £12 million in the year to July 2007 and in that year we had European football and good attendances. Not much has changed to the cost base since then. Same overheads, same high wages etc. But the income is probably down since then so a loss is likely. And the only person who can fund that loss is Ashley. In answer to the thread - No. He's a chancer who hit the jackpot when he floated a dodgy chain of sports shops and thought it would be the ultimate toy to own a Premiership club. He had no idea what he was buying, didn't understand the importance of the club to the city of Newcastle, underestimated the ability of the fans to see through bullsh1t and he hasn't got a clue how to run it. Our best bet is somehow we survive and he finds a buyer in May.

£50 million received for Berbatov and Keane and owners happy to reinvest basically.

Struggling to think of the type of player who will break that mould tbh. Other than unheralded signings like Sibierski name me a player in recent years who has fulfilled their potential with us. Martins. Give you that one, although some might not agree.

Struggling to think of the type of player who will break that mould tbh. Other than unheralded signings like Sibierski name me a player in recent years who has fulfilled their potential with us.

Make no mistake, this is worse and more dangerous than the last four seasons. True. There is not even one club that looks like a totally nailed on relegation candidate this season

It may have happened before but it won't ever happen again when the owner struggles to come up with a net spend of f*ck all on strengthening the squad. After selling a few of our "big players" when we go down the net spend will get quite a few players to compete in the championship, plus we will have the best group of youngsters in the world, especially with out 17 forwards aged between 16-20. Whatever the merits of our 16-20 age group you genuinely think that we would bounce straight back from the Championship to getting a Champions League place in the Premiership. Jesus Christ....

It may have happened before but it won't ever happen again when the owner struggles to come up with a net spend of f*ck all on strengthening the squad.

If he ends up at Eastlands there won't be any hissy fits there thats for sure

He's f***ed it up so bad I could honestly believe that he's doing all of this out of spite. Maybe there's a deal between Ashley and his mate Daniel Levy. If Ashley takes us down then as a reward Enic buy out Sports Direct at way over market value and Ashley also will be given a stake in the team he supports....

The combination of Allardyce and Blackburn is a match made in heaven. I suggest we get used to the idea of Blackburn becoming an extremely competitive outfit and learn to deal with it.

good point It is a good point but i dont see too many players coming off the back of percieved stability now that Joe Kinnear is in charge 'full time'. In fact i dont think many players will have heard of Kinnear in the first place for them to be swayed by this news. Has there been any official statement yet? No, never ever. Ahem - please refer to post number 177 on this thread and you will find I made this very same point

I wouldn't be surprised if the subject of him staying has been discussed but I wouldn't bet a row of beans that he's had anything in writing. If the club confirm it then so be it. But my impression of JK right now is that he seems to exist in some sort of naive twilight world where he takes everything he's told at face value and then mouths off to the press to try and impress everyone that he's calling the shots.

We'll take that as a pre-meditated gesture of enthusiastic support then.

The only source of information on this "lucrative contract" is Kinnear himself. With the amount of utter crap he has been spouting lately I won't believe he's been offered anything until the club confirm it.

What a bizarre comment from Kinnear. It sound like he's playing some sort of word association game and just said the first thing that came into his head.

I thought the same thing They are playing Wigan this Saturday unfortunately, can't believe the deal will be done by then

It pains me to say it but I can't disagree with one word of what Lawro says there.