Gallowgate Toon

Excellent first 25 minutes but seemed to go much quieter after that., need him to find the space again.

We've lost our rhythm like, really need to get back to keeping it on the deck.

He's looked terrible today, confidence shot.

Need to focus on getting it on the deck again, we were having such a good spell before.

You have a point with Cabaye being so erratic in his performances. I don't think we'll be saying the same things in 6 months though, purely a question of Cabaye getting to grips with the league right now.

I was more impressed by some of the passes to be honest. He's got some real vision and seems to love setting up triangles. Got to love the way he plays the game.

Agree, I'm a massive Best fan but against Man Utd I would let HBA continue in the team, see what he can produce. Against Chelsea I'm not sure, their defence can be vulnerable to direct play so Best might play a part. Against Chelsea's lumberers, I think pace is the way forward personally. They're good physical CBs but they play that high line, that's something a quick forward can really capitalise on.

Hold on a minute. This is the same Ryan Taylor who has gained us quite a few points recently? Drop him for a couple of mistakes under pressure against the leagues best team? Drop the fella whose done so well for the last 10 games for a young kid who is untried or tested in the prem? Same lad that would have been a hell of a lot more exposed had it not been for the chap playing in front of him on the left wing. Forgot his name again? Who is it? See this is a debatable point. I get how Jonas was asked to do a job against Stoke and it worked. But...... He now doesnt attack at all (not that I think it was ever great). If we had someone, him or another, attacking down the left, that would also ease pressure on Taylor because they would be defending against us and not us sitting back at defending against them. Whether you agree with me, you'll have heard the phrase " the best line of defence is attack". Basically what Im getting at here. And, because he is attacking we have turned very one sided with most attacks coming down the right either with Obertan or Sammi. Much better in my deluded opinion to have attacks going down both flanks. You do realise that you've just completely contradicted yourself here, right? Nope, I dont...... You've basically just criticised and taken a high ground over posters in this thread for wanting to change a system 'that saw us go 11 games unbeaten' but then just said you want to change it round in other ways, even suggesting omitting Jonas from the side. Not really. Its pretty clear Im talking about the role he has been asked to play been a problem rather than it been his fault. Doesn't matter. You've highlighted an area/system within the team you think should be changed despite by your own admission telling other people on here to not even entertain the idea of playing Ben Arfa (despite playing better against City than Best has for a number of weeks) because it's not part of the 'successful formula'. If you're listening to your own stance, then really you should have nowt to debate/complain about and you should be 100% happy with the role Jonas plays. Absolute twaddle. Comparing the lack of attacking play from Jonas to whether a recovering player should start ahead of an established performer this season is simply twaddle. A couple of flashes of potential from HBA does not equate to more than the ball retention, graft and goals that Best has contributed to get us to where we are. I love how you don't like Jonas because he lacks end product, yet Best, who's really not been at all productive during our best spell but does work hard, should be kept in. Strikers should have at least a decent return of end product man, in terms of creating or scoring, more than any other position. As for completely missing my point, well what can I say? You just can't criticise anyone for wanting to change things around a bit, then go and do it yourself, with something that has been THE key to our success, aka the defensive side of our game. We would certainly not have been where we are if we'd followed 'attack is the best form of defence', Ryan Taylor would have been left far too exposed.

Hold on a minute. This is the same Ryan Taylor who has gained us quite a few points recently? Drop him for a couple of mistakes under pressure against the leagues best team? Drop the fella whose done so well for the last 10 games for a young kid who is untried or tested in the prem? Same lad that would have been a hell of a lot more exposed had it not been for the chap playing in front of him on the left wing. Forgot his name again? Who is it? See this is a debatable point. I get how Jonas was asked to do a job against Stoke and it worked. But...... He now doesnt attack at all (not that I think it was ever great). If we had someone, him or another, attacking down the left, that would also ease pressure on Taylor because they would be defending against us and not us sitting back at defending against them. Whether you agree with me, you'll have heard the phrase " the best line of defence is attack". Basically what Im getting at here. And, because he is attacking we have turned very one sided with most attacks coming down the right either with Obertan or Sammi. Much better in my deluded opinion to have attacks going down both flanks. You do realise that you've just completely contradicted yourself here, right? Nope, I dont...... You've basically just criticised and taken a high ground over posters in this thread for wanting to change a system 'that saw us go 11 games unbeaten' but then just said you want to change it round in other ways, even suggesting omitting Jonas from the side. Not really. Its pretty clear Im talking about the role he has been asked to play been a problem rather than it been his fault. Doesn't matter. You've highlighted an area/system within the team you think should be changed despite by your own admission telling other people on here to not even entertain the idea of playing Ben Arfa (despite playing better against City than Best has for a number of weeks) because it's not part of the 'successful formula'. If you're listening to your own stance, then really you should have nowt to debate/complain about and you should be 100% happy with the role Jonas plays.

Hold on a minute. This is the same Ryan Taylor who has gained us quite a few points recently? Drop him for a couple of mistakes under pressure against the leagues best team? Drop the fella whose done so well for the last 10 games for a young kid who is untried or tested in the prem? Same lad that would have been a hell of a lot more exposed had it not been for the chap playing in front of him on the left wing. Forgot his name again? Who is it? See this is a debatable point. I get how Jonas was asked to do a job against Stoke and it worked. But...... He now doesnt attack at all (not that I think it was ever great). If we had someone, him or another, attacking down the left, that would also ease pressure on Taylor because they would be defending against us and not us sitting back at defending against them. Whether you agree with me, you'll have heard the phrase " the best line of defence is attack". Basically what Im getting at here. And, because he is attacking we have turned very one sided with most attacks coming down the right either with Obertan or Sammi. Much better in my deluded opinion to have attacks going down both flanks. You do realise that you've just completely contradicted yourself here, right? Nope, I dont...... You've basically just criticised and taken a high ground over posters in this thread for wanting to change a system 'that saw us go 11 games unbeaten' but then just said you want to change it round in other ways, even suggesting omitting Jonas from the side.

Hold on a minute. This is the same Ryan Taylor who has gained us quite a few points recently? Drop him for a couple of mistakes under pressure against the leagues best team? Drop the fella whose done so well for the last 10 games for a young kid who is untried or tested in the prem? Same lad that would have been a hell of a lot more exposed had it not been for the chap playing in front of him on the left wing. Forgot his name again? Who is it? See this is a debatable point. I get how Jonas was asked to do a job against Stoke and it worked. But...... He now doesnt attack at all (not that I think it was ever great). If we had someone, him or another, attacking down the left, that would also ease pressure on Taylor because they would be defending against us and not us sitting back at defending against them. Whether you agree with me, you'll have heard the phrase " the best line of defence is attack". Basically what Im getting at here. And, because he is attacking we have turned very one sided with most attacks coming down the right either with Obertan or Sammi. Much better in my deluded opinion to have attacks going down both flanks. You do realise that you've just completely contradicted yourself here, right?

They'd be valid points if they were even made to attempt to consider his personal circumstances and actually given time. What is the point on judging a player, who has barely played this year, who isn't fit yet and definitely needs time to fine a groove? I'd understand the complaints but as mentioned above, if they were actually given a decent enough amount of time to be deemed valid. I'll add that Baggio's observations on his cameos pre Everton were right, he did lose the ball too much and wasn't making the right choices too often. It's the lack of understanding about the injury and then making judgements on his overall game that are just so plain wrong and of course nit-picking over a performance that was greatly improved in the one area Baggio complained about, retention. He was far less wasteful in that but still jumped on the one opportunity he had to have a go and claimed something about lacking a football brain.

Can't believe the amount of scrutiny over a single incident. Baggio said he needed to improve his overall ball retention, HBA did, rarely loses the ball during the cameo and he starts to complain about an isolated incident. It's almost as if he's not allowed to make a single mistake or ever lose the ball, which is pathetic. I'm sure there are plenty of passes that Best and Ba, could and should have made during the match but we aren't analysing them, why not? Players aren't perfect and this isn't Fifa, players don't just come back from injury and everything's fine. The 'footballing brain' comment is the hallmark of a fan that obviously doesn't have much football knowledge outside of the English game. The injury comment is blind ignorance and complete idiocy. Where was Baggio when he was playing well last season, in a similar amount of games for us? He had more minutes then and was actually fit too. Didn't hear nowt about 'ball retention'. Ludicrous.

Anyone know how much he gets paid off the Beeb? Can't be that much less than Hansen. Can't believe he gets paid to spout such garbage.

He was playing in a completely different position though and you've got far more chance of losing it in the middle than out wide simply because of the number of players around you. Jonas doesn't lose it much out wide but when he does try and drive through the middle he's surrounded, it will be the same for HBA if and when he's played there. Excellent point, if Ben Arfa had stuck to his line while he was playing on the wing. In truth, he pretty much drifted inside the whole time. There are specific comments from different users on this forum, in that Everton match thread, recognising how notable it was that his best work came through the middle. Just look at some of the runs he's done, the 2 most notable, have set up clear as day goal scoring chances for Carroll and Lovenkrands and that's in the tiny space of a couple of games. Imagine what he could do over a season. Perhaps I should have gone into more detail, if you look at Jonas when he cuts in he can get away with it from deep and still have plenty of space, once he cuts in within 30 yards of the goal and gets anywhere near the middle he gets surrounded and quickly. The same goes for Ben Arfa at Everton in that when he was picking the ball up out wide not far from the half way line he had plenty of space to run in to, however once you get anywhere near the area in the middle you're going to get pounced on which has been the case when he's played in there. That's where Ben Arfa's different though. He's well known for his footwork, getting him out of the tiniest and toughest spots. I look at him now and I think, he's physically fit but in terms of the sharpness he needs to make his game work, he's 10% off. That quick footwork is what makes him such a threat but there's the old conundrum, he obviously needs competitive game time to get that extra oomph back but he can't get it with us playing so well. I also look at him now and see a player not quite playing in the same way as he was before his injury. I don't think he has many demons per se but he doesn't seem quite as relaxed as before, looking like he has a point to prove and I think that answers the issue of being too eager and losing the ball. Basically all i'm saying is, I just think he deserves some time to get back to find himself on the pitch and some time to be judged. I think some of the sweeping judgements on his game so far, like 'losing the ball', have been a little foolish and unfair as he's now spent a lot of his career here, playing after a very serious injury. Just look at the Demba Ba thread, it shows how many ill-timed comments, can be so wrong. Patience is a virtue and all that. Nobody is saying that he won't improve when he's up to speed though, the point people are debating is will he improve us as a team if he replaces Best and at the moment that's debatable. You said it. Unless you're genuinely saying the bit in bold, in the context that Ben Arfa isn't ever allowed to lose the ball? I've also said on the Best front, that it's a conundrum, with the team playing so well. I don't personally think Leon Best has been a critical part of our run, certainly not over the last 5 games at least and when he's not scoring, I don't think he's adding as much as Ben Arfa would. I'd be more concerned about breaking the team up for morale reasons, than losing Leon Best individually (I actually rate him by the way).

He was playing in a completely different position though and you've got far more chance of losing it in the middle than out wide simply because of the number of players around you. Jonas doesn't lose it much out wide but when he does try and drive through the middle he's surrounded, it will be the same for HBA if and when he's played there. Excellent point, if Ben Arfa had stuck to his line while he was playing on the wing. In truth, he pretty much drifted inside the whole time. There are specific comments from different users on this forum, in that Everton match thread, recognising how notable it was that his best work came through the middle. Just look at some of the runs he's done, the 2 most notable, have set up clear as day goal scoring chances for Carroll and Lovenkrands and that's in the tiny space of a couple of games. Imagine what he could do over a season. Perhaps I should have gone into more detail, if you look at Jonas when he cuts in he can get away with it from deep and still have plenty of space, once he cuts in within 30 yards of the goal and gets anywhere near the middle he gets surrounded and quickly. The same goes for Ben Arfa at Everton in that when he was picking the ball up out wide not far from the half way line he had plenty of space to run in to, however once you get anywhere near the area in the middle you're going to get pounced on which has been the case when he's played in there. That's where Ben Arfa's different though. He's well known for his footwork, getting him out of the tiniest and toughest spots. I look at him now and I think, he's physically fit but in terms of the sharpness he needs to make his game work, he's 10% off. That quick footwork is what makes him such a threat but there's the old conundrum, he obviously needs competitive game time to get that extra oomph back but he can't get it with us playing so well. I also look at him now and see a player not quite playing in the same way as he was before his injury. I don't think he has many demons per se but he doesn't seem quite as relaxed as before, looking like he has a point to prove and I think that answers the issue of being too eager and losing the ball. Basically all i'm saying is, I just think he deserves some time to get back to find himself on the pitch and some time to be judged. I think some of the sweeping judgements on his game so far, like 'losing the ball', have been a little foolish and unfair as he's now spent a lot of his career here, playing after a very serious injury. Just look at the Demba Ba thread, it shows how many ill-timed comments, can be so wrong. Patience is a virtue and all that.

He was playing in a completely different position though and you've got far more chance of losing it in the middle than out wide simply because of the number of players around you. Jonas doesn't lose it much out wide but when he does try and drive through the middle he's surrounded, it will be the same for HBA if and when he's played there. Excellent point, if Ben Arfa had stuck to his line while he was playing on the wing. In truth, he pretty much drifted inside the whole time. There are specific comments from different users on this forum, in that Everton match thread, recognising how notable it was that his best work came through the middle. Just look at some of the runs he's done, the 2 most notable, have set up clear as day goal scoring chances for Carroll and Lovenkrands and that's in the tiny space of a couple of games. Imagine what he could do over a season.

Pip is spot on. The 'losing the ball' comments are mythical, just look at his games for us last season (which is more time than he's been given for this one). Against Stoke, he only lost it once iirc, his Blackpool cameo didn't see him lose it from taking people on, just a blocked shot. The Everton game, i remember him losing it about 3 times, and one of them was after he slipped over. It's unfair to pass judgement on him right now, there will be physical and mental aspects to his game that just aren't there yet, that he needs to get over in his own time.

To be fair to Bent, he was playing with an injury for a few games iirc.

Best and Taylor will both play by all accounts. Not sure on Tiote. I wouldn't be so sure on Best, Pardew's been making noises about Ben Arfa for a couple of weeks now, pretty sure he's said recently he's finding it harder and harder not to play him? I think he'll conveniently use that excuse to give him a start. I actually think it would do Ben Arfa the world of good if he did start tonight, it would show him the manager has faith in him and that he's not under as great pressure here as he was elsewhere, to perform. He's not really had that for other teams/managers he's played for.

His problems weren't really on the ball. From the radio, they didn't say he was wasteful when he was on it, he seemed to pass it more often than not and seemed to have a good 10-15 minutes from just before the first half ended to around the 55th minute. It sounded like he was just out of the game far too much, it passed him by and he didn't go looking for the ball, which is unusual for him.

CORNALTY

LOL

We've sounded very weak through the middle, really not got a hold of it at all. Bit worrying for Monday.

You honestly think Ben Arfa views a 4th round Carling Cup match, against Nottingham Forest, as a big game? Give over man, he won't give a crap about that stage of the competition or that team. I'm not saying they're exactly the same situation, they are similar quality and coverage but still, he will view it as a lesser game, certainly. And on the non-conversing part, you already did.