fredbob

Can Bentley get round his man easily?

Because Richard Keys only mentioned Luque & Owen. Fair enough!

I dunno about that Torres is younger and has been on the world footall scene for a lot longer than Villa.

oh dear. After everything thats been posted ....... Not bothered reading this whole thread hence the reason i asked, man you are an idiot, always looking to take a dig at everything which doesnt fit in with your way of think, how draconian. So are you saying that Owen was Souness's main target? Then why sound out Anelka? And what about Boa Morte and Luque? see my previous post. thats all i wantedto know, fair enough, i wasnt doubting that Souness was a liar, i just dont think it is as clear as that, i dot understand why in the sky interview Souness would deny wanting Owen and Luque, yet made no reference to his equaly bad signings of Boum-shlong, Parker and Emre.

oh dear. After everything thats been posted ....... Not bothered reading this whole thread hence the reason i asked, man you are an idiot, always looking to take a dig at everything which doesnt fit in with your way of think, how draconian. So are you saying that Owen was Souness's main target? Then why sound out Anelka? And what about Boa Morte and Luque?

Was souness's main target Anelka? If so what are the reason we couldnt get him? Surely money wasnt an issue if we end up getting Owen for double the price, i remember Souness beng quite vocal about Anelka and it seems he was Souness main target. However i do remeber the piece of papaer incident,that does ring a bell, so who's to say what definitively happened, fromthe outlook it doesnt look as strigth forward as ither of them want to make out but i dont understand why we didnt end up going for the targets that were widely accepted as being Souness targets. Someting smells fishy.

If he doesnt sort his mind out he will never be world class, full stop. Unformtunately it'll be his biggest weakness and i dont think he'll sort it out. Definitely has the ability to be world class but i dont think he'll ever learn to use his strength properly.

Sorry but that's just not true. How does Martins offer far more? Neither the stats nor watching both play back that up. They both offer about the same - i.e. about 10-15 league goals a season. Martins is constantly looking for the ball, his natural game mean he goes after the ball and battles for it, they say defences starts from the front and he is constantly putting players under pressure, not only that but he also gets the ball in deep and runs, his major problem is that he isnt inteligent with possession adn is very slow to release the balla t right times. Which leads him to lose the ball at times (which he goes back to get again) or play the wrong ball. Owens on the other hand is invisible when we dont have the ball in attacking areas, he rarely battles for hte ball and doesnt come deep for the bal (righlty) becasue that isnt his game, he is primarily a finisher and that is it, his link up play is ok, but again that isnt really part of his game. For me, Owen has only one strength to his game which is finishing, Martins has alot more, but none of them are refined. The fact that despite this he's still good for 10-15 goals puts him ahead for me. Martins doesn't graft a lot for me. This defending from the front thing isn't something he does. It seems to be a myth which people put around though. As much of a myth that Owen is such a great finisher tbh Better finisher than Martins imo. But that is the one of the only thing he is better than martins, martins is stronger quicker and had a bigger range for his shot and is much better in the air. Owens strengths limit him to the 18 yard box which doesnt offer enough for the team. Martins offers more in the second half of the pitch and is therefore a etter team player. All the better striekrs in the premiership are team players, Tevez, Rooney, Drogba, Torres, Adebayor, Berbatov even Benjani. Would you say that Owen will ever offer as uch as these do? I dont, do you think Martins has the ability to offer as much as these? I think he does, whether he has the brains to do so is another question.

You thnk he's lazy?

Would love Carrick here, absolutely love it. He'd be perfect for this team, first thing this team needsis a ball playing DM. Doubt Man U will let him go without a profit though. Definitely need a right winger after that, people really rate Bentley this season, is it acase of flavour of the month? It was MGP last season. Quresma would be an amazing option there.

Sorry but that's just not true. How does Martins offer far more? Neither the stats nor watching both play back that up. They both offer about the same - i.e. about 10-15 league goals a season. Martins is constantly looking for the ball, his natural game mean he goes after the ball and battles for it, they say defences starts from the front and he is constantly putting players under pressure, not only that but he also gets the ball in deep and runs, his major problem is that he isnt inteligent with possession adn is very slow to release the balla t right times. Which leads him to lose the ball at times (which he goes back to get again) or play the wrong ball. Owens on the other hand is invisible when we dont have the ball in attacking areas, he rarely battles for hte ball and doesnt come deep for the bal (righlty) becasue that isnt his game, he is primarily a finisher and that is it, his link up play is ok, but again that isnt really part of his game. For me, Owen has only one strength to his game which is finishing, Martins has alot more, but none of them are refined. The fact that despite this he's still good for 10-15 goals puts him ahead for me. Martins doesn't graft a lot for me. This defending from the front thing isn't something he does. It seems to be a myth which people put around though. Agree to disagree then, i see him closing down all the time, always looking for the ball. Am sure other people see the same.

Sorry but that's just not true. How does Martins offer far more? Neither the stats nor watching both play back that up. They both offer about the same - i.e. about 10-15 league goals a season. Martins is constantly looking for the ball, his natural game mean he goes after the ball and battles for it, they say defences starts from the front and he is constantly putting players under pressure, not only that but he also gets the ball in deep and runs, his major problem is that he isnt inteligent with possession adn is very slow to release the balla t right times. Which leads him to lose the ball at times (which he goes back to get again) or play the wrong ball. Owens on the other hand is invisible when we dont have the ball in attacking areas, he rarely battles for hte ball and doesnt come deep for the bal (righlty) becasue that isnt his game, he is primarily a finisher and that is it, his link up play is ok, but again that isnt really part of his game. For me, Owen has only one strength to his game which is finishing, Martins has alot more, but none of them are refined. The fact that despite this he's still good for 10-15 goals puts him ahead for me.

When was the last time milner got into the sam posistion to cross as the Rosciky goal. He never gets to the byline without a defender on him. More oftenthannot he holds up play and most of ht time cuts onto his left which puts adifferent angle on the cross, making it harder for our strikers to react. (maybe clutching at straws at that one) Lennon is a young lad, younger than Milne and any improvemnt yousee milner having you'll see hte saem with Lennon, Milner to me is a limited player because his technique doesnt compensate for his lack of pace. When you are able to get into more dangerous positions technique becomes less important.

Martins, offers far more to the team then Owen does, top prem strikers nowadays cant just get away with just being goalscrorers. Martins will scare defenders with his pace and style, alot more than Owen will nowadays.

Are people actually considering the "R" word? And we complain when the media say we're unrealistic?

You love him. +1 Exactly the sort of thing we'd need. Well, Robert in his prime anyway.

right now very happy with n'zogbia centre attacking midfield Against Stoke maybe. He was dominated pretty easily today. you mean today he didn't dominate the game ? that type of thing happens with half a team out. No, he was easily dominated. They coped with him very easily today i thought. He only had any real effect when he pushed out to the left occassionally for the last 20 minutes or so. Such a massive waste if we keep him there long-term. yup he was easy dominated....why ?2 men on him and limited options perhaps ? could a decent central midfield solve this ie no bolton player marked rozenhal meaning they could double man elsewhere. Zog might turn into a quality central midfielder but right now he has too many limitations to his game. His ball retention, passing and strength are exposed in the middle. Maybe with 3 central midfielders he can get away with it but not in a 2. Stick him out wide where he gets a bit more space and he can use his attributes like his pace, his ability to run with the ball and his crossing. I like the kid but until he develops a bit, you are just exposing his weaknesses and stifling his strengths in the middle. his crossing has never been consistent and he is only just getting experience in centre mid. as for running at players most of his best stuff has been done in the middle even when played in other positions (this season at left back and as at the SOL when out wide). his best attribute is taking the ball in close and in one movement taking it away...ideal for attacking centre mid. distribution needs wot=rked on but it would to play wide anyway Have to agree, think he could be very effective in the centre. He's equally good onthe right, but ithink that his direct running will open up alot of space for the strikers when he forces defender to commit to tackles on him. Needs to work on his passing and distibution but could be effective. Hopefull this game wont be judged against him because he had absolutley no space to operate, had 2/3 people on him at all times. would be excellent onthe counter attack throught the cnetre.

We had possession by the bucket load today and we were crying out for creativity. The possession Bolton had was mainly down to our s*** passing and inability to break them down. Aye, against Bolton we had good possession, thats the first bit. Against the bigger teams and better teams will we have the saem amount? No, hence the need for an accomplished DM who will give us possession. We need a RW, Milner had bucket loads of possession but wasted it with poor crossing or negative passing. I dint see him go past a full back once. You give a quicker, more skillful RW that much posession he WILL give better oppurunities. As for an AM, i didnt see toomuch possesion "in the hole" where an attacking midfilder operates, it was predominantly on the wings. If we had an AM he would be useless without posession and useless without having 2 winger at his disposal who make andvaced runs. I think its wrong to think that having a creative midfelider will automatically make us creative. I dont think Elano would of been as effective as he has been without Ireland and especially Petrov by his side. You couldnt stick Ronaldinho into Derby team and expect them to be any more creative, it doesnt work as siply as that.

That's the way I see it. We played much better, we tried to get it down and pass it, we had a lot of posession but lacked penetration. In 3 f****** days, that's quite an improvement, tbh.

I think we need those in completely the different order. Nah, creative midfielder is useless if we dont have posession, need a DM to brek down opposition play and give possession to AM and wingers, need decent protection of the defense as well, Butt and Geremi dont offer the whole package. Build from the back etc. Also a AM will need good outlets, i dont think we have them, Milner wont get beyond the full backs into the dangerous spaces that the AM thrive on. Hence the need for a winger who will balance out the team. gives the team an extra dimension. AM midfilder will be the hardest one to get right, he'll be like the final piece in the puzzle. Inmy opinion we'd be more dangerous with possession with 2 competent wingers than we would with possession and only one competent winger and an AM.

Precisely. I don't think i've seen us retain possession as well as we did today for a long time, and that's got nothing to do with their tactics. We've played against negative teams before and had little possession. The fact that we had 70% of the possession, or whatever, for me, is good 'defending'. They can't score if you've got the ball. yeh, we kept possession thought Roz was really good inthe centre, kept play flowing and regained posessionquite well. Was a major plus seeing us regaining possession trying to work an opening rather than hope for one froma long ball, can really see the difference inthe team, if we boxed them in like we did today with Allardyce at the helm the ball would of been punted into the box on the hope that a ball would fall loose for one of our players, we'd end up losing possession very easily with Allardyces style which meant we were constantly trying to reagain possession again putting ourselves under unessary pressure. Id like to see the ball worked from one flank to the other more often, play didnt get swtiched tht often from what i remember.

Need a DM first and foremost. The a right winger, then a creative midfielder.

We kept a clean sheet because they didnt attack, simple. There was hardly any pressure on our defenders.

i think Lennons really good to be honest, id have him at nufc in a flash, his main weakness though is his final ball, which seems to be a problem with a lot of our players. He gets himself into some fantastic positions thouhg and i dont think there are many full backs inthe premiership who arent wary of him he canskin them all. Would have him or Quaresma here in a flash, would prefer them to SWP. Milner has often torn apart the best full backs in the league whilst not being able to deliver the final ball. As said Lennon is very average, he is just very quick at being average. milner is actually a reasonably dangerous player when he's close to the box, he's quite tricky and does get the better of some full backs, however his pace lets him down severly when he's further out as he doesnt have the pace to get past the full back, which means he's forced to cross alot of the time from deep, whihc leads onto his next problem which is his deleivery isnt good. Slow wingers have good technique, Solano, Beckham etc, Milber unfortunately doesnt have either. Someone like lennon will have very few issues with getting past the full backs, once he gets into the box or to the byline he'll draw out defenders leaving space for players like Owen to exploit. Owens movement in the box would be more suited to someone crossing fromthe byline or in the box than someone crossing from deep.

Id agree with the OWen thing i think, before he lost his pace he was definitely a top striker who was very dangerous, but now his pace has gone he offers nothing except clinical finishing in front of goal. Compare him with other strikers inthe Prem and he doesnt offer half as much.... Rooney, Tevez, Drogba, Anelka, Benjani, Adebayor, Van Persie. All top strikers who Owen was on par with a time ago are now well ahead and reflect the change in the game where strikers cant just be goalscorers but have to offer something else to the team. If we're looking to replace Owen (which will never happen) then it has to be someone who can offer more than just a goalscoring threat becasue that isnt good enough nowadays, one of the main reasons he was shipped from Real.