Interpolic

With you on that. It's just gone on too long. Even this season, where lots have said we're having a good season, there has only been a few games where he hasn't got dogs abuse for stupid decisions where even when we've won he's made games that should be comfortable wins into nervous wrecks. Now many argue, like in the 5th season, "hey we won that's all that matters" but they are missing the point. Sure winning is the most important but it set dangerous signs when you can rarely win a game convincingly and as soon as you score you retreat and end up hanging on every time. The 5th season was so similar to the first half of this but then we went on that great run towards the end which Pardew got massive credit for and we benefited from actually spending money on a striker in January and trying to kick on. However the cynic in me now wonders how much of that was because we may have expected to lose Demba Ba that winter and Cisse was his replacement? Bottom line for me, Pardew has a talented squad that he simply can't get the best out of. I actually think we've dominated far more minutes of football this season compared to that season if you take early February as the yardstick, we were generally getting a result in scrappy games that neither team really deserved to win before Christmas that year, whereas we've had load of games this year where we've played fairly impressive football in a manner where we dominate the the opposition for 30-45 minutes, then frustratingly revert to defensive football and hang on. I kinda feel like this season we've been very lucky. Considering some of the games we've won and some we've lost, you'd think it would be the other way round. I think we're lucky Gouffran turned out to work so well despite him being no world beater, Remy coming in, Williamson stepping up, Cabaye playing so well after the Summer debarcle (and the incentive of moving in Jan), Tiote improving, probably in reaction to Cabaye, the Spurs game... In the 5th season, although we had a good share of luck, that back 4 was solid through some hard work it would seem. There seems to be very little work this season, that list above that I've labelled as lucky, I can't see much work from Pardew et al to create those positives. I think with this standard of squad Pardew is capable of having us finish 8th-12th every year if he doesn't have the Europa League as a complication, I agree that a few things have fallen his way this season but by the same token a few things have gone wrong (Coloccini's fitness issues, Ben Arfa not being Superman for him these days, a few daft suspensions such as Debuchy's when he was looking our best player, aliens, etc). The trouble is that I don't think 8th need be our ceiling, the likes of Spurs and Everton are there to be caught but I don't think he's getting the best of a very good (but admittedly quite imbalanced) squad. The Man Utd, Spurs and Chelsea results were a bit misleading, it makes it seem like we've done better than we have.

With you on that. It's just gone on too long. Even this season, where lots have said we're having a good season, there has only been a few games where he hasn't got dogs abuse for stupid decisions where even when we've won he's made games that should be comfortable wins into nervous wrecks. Now many argue, like in the 5th season, "hey we won that's all that matters" but they are missing the point. Sure winning is the most important but it set dangerous signs when you can rarely win a game convincingly and as soon as you score you retreat and end up hanging on every time. The 5th season was so similar to the first half of this but then we went on that great run towards the end which Pardew got massive credit for and we benefited from actually spending money on a striker in January and trying to kick on. However the cynic in me now wonders how much of that was because we may have expected to lose Demba Ba that winter and Cisse was his replacement? Bottom line for me, Pardew has a talented squad that he simply can't get the best out of. I actually think we've dominated far more minutes of football this season compared to that season if you take early February as the yardstick, we were generally getting a result in scrappy games that neither team really deserved to win before Christmas that year, whereas we've had load of games this year where we've played fairly impressive football in a manner where we dominate the the opposition for 30-45 minutes, then frustratingly revert to defensive football and hang on.

2006 since we've been behind in the Premiership at half time and won. Does anyone know how common it is generally, out of interest? If you can be bothered this might help, select seasons and stats. http://www.soccerstats.com/table.asp?league=england&tid=i I can't be arsed right now but I might look into it at some point. I think getting the first goal in a game is usually a good indicator you'll end up winning it statistically, but I remember times when we used to turn around deficits fairly regularly. Seems quite rare now.

I think he's a really limited manager but he does have his moments in terms of results, so why do you think he seems to get this derby match so wrong every time?

2006 since we've been behind in the Premiership at half time and won. Does anyone know how common it is generally, out of interest?

Bit melodramatic. Ok - What would you say Sunderland's main strengths are? If I'm honest I was taking the piss because it's the type of thing you usually accuse others of. If we're being serious then in terms of team selection I thoroughly disagree with Taylor getting a game ahead of MYM if the other centre half is Williamson but otherwise wouldn't argue with the team he put out, as Marveaux/De Jong certainly haven't had enough match time recently to warrant or justify a start. The starting line-up isn't the be-all-and-end-all though and I assume that's what you might be getting at? In which case I agree our mentality for the game was 100% wrong, we didn't seem to have a gameplan geared towards dominating the opposition but instead appeared to have the attitude that if we were committed then that would hopefully be enough. As Pardew seems quite a reactive chap, I assume this is because his perception is that we passed them off the park earlier this season but the quality didn't lead to a result, therefore we needed to try to make it scrappy and hope we could win enough 1-on-1 battles. Either way, it was fucking rubbish.

Not having a pop at you specifically Stifler, but how do we know that this is actually true? It just doesn't feel right that it's the actual case and we only have some waffle from the club to go on. I can't say I've seen that many knocking about and I know a few that said they'd never buy one, plus it's not that great a top.

Fair point, you're probably right. Wikipedia reckons we paid £8.5m for Yanga-Mbiwa, that's a lot of money for us and it seems strange that Pardew is getting away with letting him rot on the bench. I think we must have been pretty sure Coloccini was off, this lad was his replacement but he never left. Fuck knas why Taylor/Williamson are playing though, suppose Williamson doesn't deserve to be dropped and Taylor generally gets played when fit.

Bit melodramatic.

That really has been an inexplicable decision of his. When Coloccini and Taylor were injured earlier in the season, MYM and Williamson did a really good job on the whole and MYM was unlucky to be dropped when Coloccini came back, but I could sort of buy into it because we seem to be more solid at the back when our central defenders are chalk and cheese, i.e. you pick one of Coloccini/MYM and one of Taylor/Williamson and you have the right mix of brains and brawn. Since then MYM has generally been fucked around and been either on the bench or out of position. It really seems as though Taylor and his agent are in Pardew's ear, probably not far off the Demba Ba situation, and again we're in the daft situation where the wishes/demands of a player are deemed more important than what's best for the team.

Also we had no gameplan today - it seems Pardew had drummed it into them that it was a war, so there was no attempt to play through them really. Players' fault entirely though, Pards had no choice but to play the team he did and then obviously all a manager can do is watch.

Is Pardew just an innocent bystander then? I don't understand it, past managers would have been crucified. People seemingly can't fit more than one thing in their brain and think because Ashley's not spending money it can't be anything to do with Pardew when we have days like this.

Aye, as I've previously stated as well our player turnover has been pretty high since he came in. Totally different players, same old problems.

They won't like, Man City are outrageously brilliant and only getting better. As if that matters It does man, the mackems are going to get smashed in that game surely. The Man Utd fan at my work was hoping they went out because he was terrified of a pounding.

They won't like, Man City are outrageously brilliant and only getting better.

Yep, faux I reckon. I 100% think the players need to take a big share of the responsibility by the way, obviously. But there comes a time when you notice a trend - we've had the same thing where people say the players choose to sit on a 1 or 2 goal lead and hang on for dear life when in reality the only constant is the manager. His record in derbies is by far and away the worst since I started supporting the club - he's lost 3 in less than 12 months, which is as many as we'd lost in the previous 20-odd years FFS.

Dawg killing it, again.

I agree with it on the whole too, and at last they've seen fit to have a pop at the manager.

Attacking midfielders are like heroin to Wenger, and as such he's just got one and will feel like he desperately needs another.

NUFC.com: The 150th competitive Tyne-wear derby ended in a deserved defeat for Newcastle on Saturday, as the mackems made it three successive wins over their deadliest rivals for the first time in ninety years. The last two derby meetings had seen dubious refereeing decisions leave United nursing a sense of injustice, but there was absolutely no doubt this time as a complete non-performance from the home side was duly punished. With Yoan Gouffran, Papiss Cisse and Loic Remy all absent, Alan Pardew opted for Shola Ameobi to lead the line, naming new loan arrival Luuk De Jong on the bench. There was never any hint of a breakthrough for the home side though, before the yellow-clad mackems burst into the area on 19 minutes. Vurnon Anita illegally halted the run of Phil Bardsley and Fabio Borini netted the resultant penalty with ease in front of the Leazes End. Before anything approaching a comeback was sighted, the visitors swarmed forward again and Jack Colback's shot was deflected for Adam Johnson to knock home. Entirely justified boos and abuse accompanied the half time whistle after a stunningly inept display from the home side that lacked strength, application, leadership, pace and desire. Quite simply, we did nothing properly. A raft of alleged international players not only showed little appetite and no desire to chase lost causes, but also a criminal lack of commitment and talent. Poor decision-making across a jittery back four was echoed by bone-headed attempts at crossing and passing, while the departure of our dead ball expert made free kicks and corners a total waste of time. De Jong replaced Sammy Ameobi for the second half with Ben Arfa switching to the left flank, but the improvement was only marginal - Mannone stretched on just one occasion when Tiote's shot was on target. Without building any momentum, United did contrive to deliver the ball into the mackem box on a few occasions. None of the half-chances created were converted though and a major let-off at the other end saw Johnson smack his curling effort off a post. Any lingering hopes of a late revival by United were then extinguished after 80 minutes, when Ben Arfa weakly surrendered possession on halfway and Jack Colback swept the ball home after an upfield break to give the mackems a three goal advantage here once again. Before the game could restart, one home fan made it on to the pitch and attempted to hand his season ticket to Pardew before stewards intervened. A second pitch invader then appeared to hoof the match ball away before being apprehended and a third received similar treatment following the final whistle. Some post-match confrontations between home followers and police in the city were reported, but nothing on a par with the scenes witnessed here last time thankfully. Statistics show a fourth successive home defeat in all competitions and a third in the Premier League without scoring, but beyond that lies an overwhelming sense of gloom across Tyneside following the sale of Cabaye and completely predictable failure to sign a replacement. The atmosphere was apprehensive and scarcely got any better on a day when a collective uplift from the team was desperately required. Those clad in black and white though chose to post a woefully clueless performance that wouldn't have been acceptable in a pre-season friendly, let alone a match of this magnitude. Here's another stat: in four games when they faced each other in the dugout, it's Poyet 4 Pardew 0. Sadly lacking in tactical prowess, the United boss again demonstrated that his motivational qualities are as poor for derby matches as for cup ties. God alone knows what those next to him on the bench bring to the party. Add in unconvincing attempts to defend his superiors and any credibility he had is draining away at a rate of knots. Were our current manager to disappear tonight and never be seen again, barely an eyebrow would be raised. The issues at hand are far, far bigger than him though and swapping him for the next out of work boss prepared to be hung out to dry by his employer. Ironically enough, that successor looked as if it may have been Poyet at one point between his Brighton exit and mackem move. And here's some more bad news - there's no more chance of Hatem Ben Arfa inspiring his colleagues and filling the vacant midfield creator slot than another busted flush Sylvain Marveaux, introduced here for his first league appearance in over four months. It showed. As was the case at the stadium of plight last October, a thoroughly average mackem side collected three points gifted to them by their generous regional rivals, earning their win thanks to a measure application and composure completely lacking by the team higher up the table. Toon fans can feel aggrieved by the transfer dealings (or lack of them), but a large chunk of blame has to lie on the field for a woeful performance. Lacking conviction to a criminal degree, this was simply shameful.

There's this thing called sarcasm, people with half a brain sometimes use it to make themselves feel better about their lives.

Erm that's not how i would describe the bag of shit who's our manager like. Hello? Dignified Pardew isn't. A cunt certainly. FUCKING HELL.

Erm that's not how i would describe the bag of shit who's our manager like. Hello?

It's a perfect thread title really, the guy's a victim of horrible circumstances and is suffering in a dignified manner in the midst of events out of his control.

It was a different game if you hadn't noticed, we were up against a side with their tails up in a local derby where the onus was on us to attack.