Tiresias

Murmur is also a really good REM album

Imagine if this was all Odin again all along, he'd really just gone the extra mile

What is this i work late and this place has gone all REM without me? Up is very underrated and not terrible as some think

Great post I think it will help a lot of people with their thoughts and decisions Question for you Greg, "I'll judge Newcastle United on what Newcastle United does." and "We support the football club not the owners" Can you see a set of circumstances where it would be impossible to separate the owners from the football club and you would have to stop supporting the football club because of the owners? I'm pretty much in an identical boat to Greg. Honestly I will see. If we see investment come properly in teh club and the area I will still not think they are nice people but I can't begrudge newcastle and it's fans the sucecss and the investment that will bring. It wouldn't be the first investment in teh area to come with dodgy connections. Again, we have no voice in this, no fan does and that is utterly absurd. The sin is not with newcastle fans, it is with how clubs are run and allowed to be run and the money that is needed to compete. I also don't really think it has to work this sportswashing, I don't think owning NUFC will make Saudi Arabia look much better to be honest apart from to some cretins in the fanbase. If I think it is working I guess may turn me totally against it. I also know everyones excited cos they have a lot of money, but noone really knows how much they are actually going to invest. Talk of them being richer than all other clubs in league combined is all well and good but that's all their money for all their investing, not just for us. I don't mean to party poop, cos they say they want us to compete, but they still could be terribly incompetant, plaster adverts everywhere and run is into the ground...just saying...

'So Rafa you asked me to sell the club to some centre backs and a defensive mid, that didn't work so I've got you 4 strikers'

Not sure that's a great idea anymore

I kinda assume almost all the fakeovers were verbally agreed with ashley, the man wil lie lie lie and lie again.

ffs

All the investment in the club and community will be if it happens brilliantly, and I never want to imply that I don't understand the desperation of the fans for a club with ambition and a region with investment again, indeed I am desperate for that too. I would even go so far as while I am one of the more negative ones, it is too good an opportunity for the area to turn down. The club needs it the area needs it too much to turn nose up at it. What I won't do is defend Saudi's moral record, and won't think we are owned by nice people doing it out of the goodness of their own hearts. Call me a hypocrite fine but I would rather be that than deny the North East the joy a resurgent Newcastle would be. I just lament that this the only choice, and even that there is no choice to be made. In any sane world the fans would have had the power to oust Ashley a long time ago.

Is that something they do? Reintroduce abhorant laws After bad pr dies down? Don’t disagree with anything you said there. I would much prefer one of those American owners supposedly interested. Didn’t post that link to defend them btw. I don't honestly know if they do that a lot, it's that that information in isolation doesn't indicate they've suddenly become wonderful (and I do know of course you could be in saudi arabia and say this is our country we can do waht we want here, fine, but we don't have to sell our football clubs to you either). The thing is, if Saudi Arabia were happy with how the world saw them, they would just get on with it however they want, instead they are trying to charm teh world with showing how progressive, they are trying to mvoe past oil etc and they have football clubs that do well. This sensitivity extends to if the world goes hand on what you're doing is kinda shit they suddenly reverse the position. I find it hard to trust hasty reversals in response to a PR storm. Is it even going to get reported if it gets restarted in a few months when this all dies down? And anyway, that is all a bit by the by. I think nation states buying football clubs in other countries for PR (or really for anything) is in itself wrong. No country is a saint, us especially, but fans should have a say in who owns their football club at the least, in reality football should not be in such a state of needing vast money injections and clubs should be owned by people whom will actually long term safeguard them, i.e. most likely the fans. Again where i disagree with some of the national media is that this is not some aberration from the norm, this is the logical end point of the premier league cash grab. It's systemic.

And then quietly reintroduce it when the PR storm dies down? I'm not going to suddenly think they're a lovely country overnight. I am also sure there are some positive moves happening, some genuine reformers etc and a young population desperate for change. They are still subject to the whims of autocrats who are still in power despite commiting many pretty hideous crimes. But even setting all that aside Nation states, should not directly or indirectly own football clubs. Full Stop. It is wrong, and the problem is not with us it is with the whole league, but that does not stop it being absurd.

Who’s the new fans liaison officer? Means Wraith i presume

Love all the people who have suddenly decided that Saudi are a unfairly hated country at the same time as they are potentially giving nufc a lot of money are the ones who are throwing accusations at other fans of 'suddenly developing a conscience' despite most of us have merely stayed consistent on what is right and what is wrong regardless of personal gain. Seen some talk of 'enemies' and accusations of 'liars' Let's be clear, I am a fan of NUFC, I will remain a fan of NUFC, I may even enjoy some of the football again. I just have deep misgivings over the new owners. I think with consistent messaging I see no reason why the sportwashing they are trying will necessarily work (although from all the people suddenly willing to go to the wall to defend public excecutions, torture and bombing civilians may change my mind on this) and will try and enjoy the new era. Nobody has ever, until now it seems, insisted that anyone loves the owners of a club. I certainly don't love ashley. Why is this now a requirement? Why are we required to believe they are victims (which is one of the most laughable lines of reasoning given) and not a rich nation state out to further it's own interests via owning a football club. Why am I required to suddenly change my mind and think they're nice people? I also importantly don't think it's anyone here's fault, and that is the issue. No fans have a say in who owns the club due to lack of oversight fromt he league and regulations in favour of attracting as much money as possible. If fans had a say in who owns the club ashley would have been gone years and years ago. So get this, enjoy football, but don't ever pretend it is moral. Half the league are owned by assholes too (albeit mostly not on the same scale) and football as a hole is a breeding ground for corruption and organised crime (just look at Agents, tell me thats not a racket). I will still enjoy it. But I will not be told that I have to wave a flag to support the owners. We are only singled out because we're the only club being bought right now, there's plenty of criticism of tghe glazers and they are now here near as evil as Saudi arabia ffs. If the system wasn't broken and it was just us being bought somehow by Saudi Arabia i may consider more drastic persona action but this is a symptom of the greed of the league and how football is set up. And lastly, I hate this, I mentioned before that this risks dividing the fanbase. Please don't think that anyone who is conflicted at least over the ownership is any less of a fan. I don't believe anyone who is welcoming with open arms the takeover is an enemy of the club or anything, of course every fan wants this, to finally have some ambition. But no-one has to love the owners, that's not a pre-requisite of being a fan and never was. Edit: And yes I really hope SA does liberalise, even continue to liberalise. Doesn't really change my views that football clubs should not be nation states PR machines.

I hope so but tbh that feels grasping at straws, owning a football club in teh uk can hardly be considered a major societal pressure towards liberalization. Someone said they felt there were positive moves in Saudi Arabia and that can only be good but really dont think anyone buys a football club to modernize. I hope it brings scrutiny that brings change, however think it's wishful thinking,

It would be nice if there was another buyer but as I understand it isn't this past the point of exclusivity? Like one of those timelines was shown that once it gets to point of going to league the legal agreement will be in place, it will be binding if the checks pass and even if a higher bidder came in it's too late.

The checks are basically has the owner been convicted of criminal offences, it is not a moral judgement on the owner.

I hope these sock puppets aren't being paid in oil barrels right now

not to defend SA but hell the Barca board have been accused of that to attack the players or something Well yeah and it's hardly even in top 10 worst thing they've done I don't know why some fans think criticising the owners of the club whom you've had no say in is impossible. Have they been running around advertising sports direct to their mates? I feel uneasy about it, but nor do I feel culpable for them being there so might as well enjoy my club for a bit while promoting some sanity being restored to the league as a whole where no club is a billionaire plaything and instead about the community. Or maybe i should put Saudi Arabian flags in twitter and go and slag off someones widow I guess?

Absolutely vile, although as pointed out the Saudi state is also not above creating spamloads of twitter accounts to harass critics etc. Our lovely new owners at work.

Yeah agree with that mostly. I think people have been blinded by all the bullshit to the fact it is absolutely wrong for our club to be used, and it is being used, to make a nation state palatable. In some ways it doesn't even matter what the state is, this should be about football and clubs should not be pawns of inter national power jostling. The thing is though us fans have no power over who owns our club. That is an evil that is to blame with the league which could demand it, sporting governance in general, the government who could demand it and capitalism I guess. All huge forces, and of course I wish that all fans could mobilize, if everyone insisted and refused sky and the clubs business reform would have to happen but that will never ever happen. Asking fans to stay away will achieve little and again is asking fans to take on a moral burden they don't deserve, they are powerless. What can be done is trying to counter the sport washing by trying to keep and spread awareness of the awful deeds of those in charge. This goes for everyone for the whatabouters. We all use services, pay for goods with dubious moral worth but awareness doesn't hurt and then at least a reasoned decision can be made. The Saudi government may get plenty to think oh they must be modern they own a club, but quite frankly it's a sign of a bit of unnecessary insecurity really. If Amnesty get some attention, get some funding because of that that can help too. What it comes down to, of course people are outraged, I am not going to get upset at people saying how awful it is a club is being bought by Saudi Arabia, I am nto sure there is some southern media bias or out tbh there are some awful journos though. Some of them need to remember the Saudi's havent come out of the blue, bribed their way past stringent regulations designed to keep football about the fans and inserted themself into some friendly fan run league. The Premier League has always been heading to this point, in fact this is the whole point of the league, to get money money money involved with the very smallest of morals involved. What a carnival of greed at the expense of fans the league is and it is outrageous to get this far. Let's not forget that if football wasn't such a over the top massive pyramid scheme of greed we could all own our own clubs, the cost of being in the league wouldn't be so mad as for us to need huge investment as such and the football could be as good, but of course all the leagues have to compete with each other and here we are.

Stop giving that twat attention

Isn't that like all of it

The massive delivery of rolled up notes to various fa staff will take a while