Cf

It's like there's some competition going to see who can make the worst decision. It's another example where VAR really hurts the game. In the no VAR world the penalty stands, we debate it a bit, and conclude the ref got it wrong whilst accepting mistakes happen and it's impossible for a ref to get everything right. And the world moves on. (With the caveat that a ref making too many of these sorts or errors probably isn't up to standard). But the presence of VAR turns these decisions into major controversies because they're still getting it wrong even with video evidence. They've lost the not getting it right in real time defence. How VAR didn't intervene for this or the Everton penalty is beyond me. Yet they did for Gordon's which I don't even think was a penalty. Think it even split us 50/50 on here and we're biased.

And because it was only a yellow they have no ability to appeal it do they? It was a truly awful decision.

Chris wood isn't allowed to do that.

That was a stone wall penalty for Everton. How that's not given is baffling.

Feel for this 3-3 being so far down the running order here.

Management should be stamping that sort of shit out.

Spoilers. Game is still going going here.

Also based on his goal celebrations I hate Cole Palmer.

He got sent off for defending there.

At least Eddie realised it wasn't right and rectified it. Bit harsh subbing a sub but he did it when needed.

I think we're all in agreement he needs a run in the team at this point. Hopefully the time on the training field means when he comes in he's going to hit the ground running. It's been a bit of a weird one but I'm going to assume Howe knows better than I do but the difference with him and Barnes on the left was night and day and surely can't be ignored.

Wtf am I watching.

I'd not be happy if that was given against us I don't think.

Don't think we've been that bad tbh. Certainly had the chances. They've not had much but scored from what they've had.

Almiron probably coming off in protest tbh after the finishes from the two chances he created.

Wtf is going on.

Just from a sporting point of view you don't take the quick free kick with a player down?

Fuck right off.

Quietly confident about this.

Given the season we're having I'm surprised they've got time for stuff like that. They should be spending more time on the training pitch sorting Botman's knee out.

Yeah agreed. There's certainly a way to articulate it and it wasn't that.

There's a certain merit in it though. Stats aren't everything of course but at the same time they do help paint a picture of where things could be had the dice settled differently. You can do all the right things but still lose on the day. It's the nature of the game. People say it's a results game and it is but at times you need to be able to look past the results and stick with a manager when things aren't going too well if you think the underlying job is good. This works the other way round too. Think of us every time we thought Pardew was under pressure and he'd pull out a series of wins. And that fluke 5th season. He deserves a certain amount of credit for it but we could all see it was a statistical anomaly for us to end where we did. See also West Ham and Moyes. The European win was great for them in terms of a trophy but they've been naff beyond that for some time but it's hard to bin a manager when he's won you something. West Ham are one of this seasons over performers in terms of xPTS. To claim they "should be 4th" is obviously silly. The league isn't going to end with everyone where they "should" be and would be boring if it was. Understat has them 6th fwiw. And us at 5th. Biggest over performers are Man Utd who should be 11th. If they were actually down there ETH would be gone by now. And arguably he should be already but their current league position is masking where they are.

The medical team will have recommended surgery on balance from the advice they had all received. But it won't have been a clear cut you definitely need surgery. There's a lot more nuance to it than some people are making out and it's why I don't find Howe's comments helpful the way he's seemingly made out that Botman overruled the club and this is some sort of crisis of management. This sort of discussion about whether an injury requires surgery or not probably happens all the time. We obviously aren't privy to such conversations. It's just not that often that this is the outcome.

Because sometimes you have no good options. In hindsight we should have probably gone the surgery route. But the key point is this would also have been a gamble. The surgery could have complications, it might be a success but he comes back not the same, he'd obviously be out longer, etc. As I said there's no blanket rule in this scenario and it's a case by case basis. Presented with the various pieces of advice the player went down the no surgery route. Had every piece of advice been "you need surgery" he'd have had it.

This is where Howe's comments aren't helpful. In reality they'll have all discussed it as a group and as a result of Botman's input of not wanting the surgery will have agreed a plan for how to proceed without. I don't know what this he's not playing is about. He didn't play whilst he had to rest. Once he's rested and it's seemingly healed why wouldn't Howe play him?