Shadow Puppets

I speculate that there’s an awful lot of posturing going on in this forum and on Twitter. I bet you come kick off that you’ll be watching the match one way or another.

Course they are. They're pandering to him in the hope he'll give them stories. Come on man. Cynical for the sake of being cynical.

Because like it or not, it does mean something to a lot of fans (especially older generations). It’s literally the only card he’s got to play coming into the job after Rafa. Of course he’s going to play that card. And there’s nothing really wrong with playing that card if it helps unite some of the fan base. But hey, as you know, I’m very much in the give him a chance camp. I know he shouldn’t be here, I know he’s never shown anything to suggest he is capable of managing us... but he’s here now and what’s the fucking point in whinging at everything he says...it’s not going to change anything. Just give him 10-15 games...see how he gets on. You never know...we might actually do well. Stranger things have happened in football. I’m still angry about the whole Rafa situation and the lack of takeover. But I’m trying to remain positive... because ultimately life’s too short to be so negative all the time. It really is.

I watched that too. He was definitely fucking joking man. Smiling the whole time he says it. It’s just a bit of shit banter with the interviewer. Nothing more. Nothing less. Overreactions are one of the foundations of this forum though.

Looking forward to this. Hoping for a win. Think realistically it’ll be a narrow defeat. Particularly looking forward to seeing Almiron, Joelinton and (if he starts) ASM. That’s a potentially very exciting front line right there. Wish I was going, in truth.

Are you sure you guys aren’t massively overreacting to those comments? If you watch him saying them in his press conference it’s clearly a joke and the press are laughing along with it.

I’m going to say at worst 48k.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-7343745/Newcastle-United-shambles-they.html

Of course there's a likelihood that the players are wanting to remain positive. But I doubt very much that there'd be as many soundbites if the training was genuinely awful, or that his gameplans were bizarre etc. I'm generally a very positive person though, so I appreciate I'm fighting a losing battle on here trying to convince anyone that everything is anything other than awful. The way I see it, there is still a lot to support there. Some good players that I grew really fond of under Rafa... they're still there. Plus a few exciting signings (two of which look really promising on first viewing). And I will give Steve Bruce some time to see whether he has any ability to get the best out of them. Life's too fucking short to be angry all the time.

I haven't turned against Rafa at all. I love the guy. I'm just saying that maybe just maybe the players weren't as keen on him as we were. That's all! Or, at least, maybe there isn't as much to worry about moving forward as people think, if the players are impressed with Bruce and his team. I guess what I'm saying is, you can't just condemn any player who has a positive word to say about Bruce, and I personally still think Bruce deserves some support. I do believe he has the club's interests at heart. Whether he is good enough to achieve what we want to achieve, I doubt, but I still think he deserves support.

Without wanting to stoke your fires, are you going to add Hayden to the list too? He's done an interview on NUFCTV praising Bruce's influence and saying it's the fittest and most prepared the team has been for a season since he joined the club. Is he another one for your collective lists? Or is there actually something in what they're saying that might actually be true, as much as you hate it to be.

Ashley’s puppet? Who’s that referring to? At a guess............I'd say you. I thought so. I doubted myself because I didn’t really understand how childish you have to be to call someone Ashley’s puppet, just because you offer a slightly different viewpoint to the echo chamber of this forum. I’m no puppet to Ashley. I just think boycotts are a massive fucking waste of energy. Focus on getting at his businesses and make it an inconvenience for him to own the club. Having a few thousand empty seats is going to achieve fuck all. I agree with the ideology of a boycott, but the reality is a concentrated and sustained boycott is never ever ever ever going to happen. It just isn’t.

Ashley’s puppet? Who’s that referring to?

Because everyone's fucking miserable and no matter how much rationality you try to use, it doesn't fit their outlook on life/NUFC/the world?

I'm not saying I think he's worth that... I'm saying that's how much we have been quoted as wanting for him. It's well reported.

I mean i have no opinions on Joelinton but the other strikers there are awful. The standards have really dropped if that's what's considered "not bad". Awful? Jesus Christ man. We are yet to know whether Gayle can do it in the PL... Rafa barely played him. And same with Muto... every time I've seen him play he's been a livewire, and most posters on here were complaining about his lack of game time last season. And Carroll, if fit, is a great option from the bench. You know he is. You just have no interest whatsoever in saying anything remotely positive. On Gayle, yes we do. He's not good enough, he's proved that multiple times over multiple different seasons for different clubs that he's not good enough. Muto i'm willing to accept he may have a chance but i still doubt it, as for Carroll he's been crap for years whether he's been fit or not. Also don't assume i have no interest in saying anything positive because i have a negative opinion on this subject. ( with good reason) To start. But a lot of clubs in our league standing would like to have a Dwight Gayle on the bench. Why aren't they queuing up to sign him then? instead he spent the entire last season at West Brom. Because they don't want to spend £15m (which is what we have been quoted as wanting for him) for him to sit on the bench.

He's not like.

I mean i have no opinions on Joelinton but the other strikers there are awful. The standards have really dropped if that's what's considered "not bad". Awful? Jesus Christ man. We are yet to know whether Gayle can do it in the PL... Rafa barely played him. And same with Muto... every time I've seen him play he's been a livewire, and most posters on here were complaining about his lack of game time last season. And Carroll, if fit, is a great option from the bench. You know he is. You just have no interest whatsoever in saying anything remotely positive. On Gayle, yes we do. He's not good enough, he's proved that multiple times over multiple different seasons for different clubs that he's not good enough. Muto i'm willing to accept he may have a chance but i still doubt it, as for Carroll he's been crap for years whether he's been fit or not. Also don't assume i have no interest in saying anything positive because i have a negative opinion on this subject. ( with good reason) To start. But a lot of clubs in our league standing would like to have a Dwight Gayle on the bench.

Joelinton... in his appearances so far looks a good player. Scored two and won a penalty. Works well with Almiron. Muto... livewire but perhaps hasn't had many opportunities due to not fitting into Rafa's system and Rondon being so good. Gayle... yet to prove whether he can cut it in the PL. I suspect not (if you expect him to be main striker) but certainly a good option from the bench and a very good finisher on his day. Carroll... offers something completely different (with the caveat of "if he's fit"). Almiron... played off Joelinton in a number 10 role in the last two friendlies and they combined really well. Needs to score, but more than makes up for it in the amount of chances he creates or makes space for. Saint-Maximin... again, based off only seeing him live for 30 mins, he looks a livewire and certainly an upgrade on the Atsu's and Ritchie's of this world. All of those will be fighting it out for 2 positions in Bruce's likely system. That isn't a bad choice at all. Or do you just have no desire to say anything positive as usual?

I mean i have no opinions on Joelinton but the other strikers there are awful. The standards have really dropped if that's what's considered "not bad". Awful? Jesus Christ man. We are yet to know whether Gayle can do it in the PL... Rafa barely played him. And same with Muto... every time I've seen him play he's been a livewire, and most posters on here were complaining about his lack of game time last season. And Carroll, if fit, is a great option from the bench. You know he is. You just have no interest whatsoever in saying anything remotely positive.

So everyone complaining about this. Providing we don't sell anyone this afternoon, our crop of strikers will be: Joelinton Muto Gayle Carroll Plus players who can play off the striker: Almiron Saint-Maximin That's not a bad selection at all. I appreciate there's some unknown quantities in there, but anyone that we bought would be an unknown quantity really.

Assuming full (enough) stadiums keep Ashley here, it's everybody's loss, not just those selfish and short-sighted enough to 'stay loyal'. Sick to the back teeth of reading shit like that Yorkie. I'm with you in principle, but people are entitled to do whatever they want to do. Doesn't make them selfish in the slightest. Just that they have a different opinion to you... it doesn't make them wrong. So fucking holier that thou. I'd say the same thing of a lot of people on the other side of the fence. You're right though, it probably is pretty condescending but I've got virtually no respect for anyone going to the game. And the situation is so deplorable that I feel fairly unconcerned about coming across as a complete dickhead. There's two categories really, I should have said selfish and/or short-sighted: / If you're going to the game purely because you refuse to make a sacrifice cos its MY club and it's MY day out and it's MY right to watch the game and Mike Ashley isn't gonna stop ME watching MY club... I think you're selfish. / If you're going to the game because you genuinely don't believe that a cumulative season attendance of roughly zero would accelerate Ashley's departure... I think you're short-sighted. I personally can't fathom how something as dramatic as 19 Premier League matches in a row, with a sheer vista of grey seats every single time (save for the away fans at the top, which, if nothing else, would be pretty comical) wouldn't force some kind of change. If Ashley himself wouldn't intervene by fucking off then at least it would alert the Premier League - and the world - to the wider issue of bad ownership. It would raise awareness of the fact that it is unethical to own a football club and then not treat it as a footballing enterprise, at the very least in addition to whatever other goals or reasons you might have for ownership. I realise that, by holding and publishing these views, I'm just perpetuating the supporter in-fighting which Ashley feeds off, but fuck it. Everything about the situation stinks and it all feels a bit hopeless so whatever. Dickhead unleashed. I appreciate all of that but you're living in cuckoo land if you think a boycott will ever truly take off. Sure, maybe 10,000 people won't show up to Arsenal... but 7,000 of them will return the following week. People who feel strongly about it and read every bit of news and dissect everything Ashley does... some of them will stay away. But the sheer truth of the whole thing is that 80-90% of the stadium leave the match on a Saturday and don't give much more thought about it until the next game. My wife is one of them, for example. She loves going to the games (even when we're doing shit) but couldn't care less about following all the ins and outs of it all outside of that. I would say the majority of the stadium are like that. I really do think the people behind AO, The Magpie Group, etc, fail to really understand that. The one and only time in the last 12 years when I've noticed Ashley lashing out in frustration was last August/September when his brands were getting attacked by 1000s of fans on social media, to the point where Sports Direct didn't tweet for weeks, and the PR machine will thrown into full force. That's where the focus should lie. It's hugely misguided and pie-in-the-sky to ever believe that a boycott will happen in significant enough numbers, and regularly enough, to make any significant difference. Idealistic, sure. Realistic, nope. Make owning NUFC an inconvenience for him and his shareholders... that's when he'll sell (IMO).

It'd have been amazing. Rafa with money, support and the beginning of a long term strategy. Oh, what could have been . We actually have zero idea what BZG's plans were for us though do we? They certainly seemed to operate in a very worrying way. (Of course I agree with the sentiment had a takeover by an ambitious owner actually happened)

Assuming full (enough) stadiums keep Ashley here, it's everybody's loss, not just those selfish and short-sighted enough to 'stay loyal'. Sick to the back teeth of reading shit like that Yorkie. I'm with you in principle, but people are entitled to do whatever they want to do. Doesn't make them selfish in the slightest. Just that they have a different opinion to you... it doesn't make them wrong. So fucking holier that thou.

A chunk of those were from the bench though (same applies to his West Ham stats). He's a 1 in 3 goalscorer in the PL, for free. As I say, IF he can stay relatively fit, he'll be a good option alongside Joelinton, Gayle, and Muto. Offers something completely different.