Shadow Puppets

Fine if you want to take your kid to the match, but don't fucking complain when others who have taken a harder stance criticize you for helping to fund Ashley after almost 12 years of complete trolling and mismanagement to fans. It's like the chants against Ashley on Saturday man, it's complete hypocrisy to the max. I'm not complaining. I'm trying to make you see possible reasons why people still go. If you, and others on here (you know who you are), don't appreciate the reasons and learn to accept them, then you'll never formulate an effective strategy for getting Ashley out. Because boycotts / walk ins etc are just never going to land with the vast majority of the fanbase. As I've previously said on here, get at Sports Direct. That's all he cares about. Don't think thats true. People just seem to have an incredibly high tolerance of being shat on by something they love. Doesnt mean that there isn't a limit though. Maybe... maybe things will change when Rafa goes, but if you're wanting to get as many people on board right now with forms of protest, affecting the matchday experience isn't going to be got behind, in my opinion. Sadly it's the only thing that will cause change and that's why it needs to be pushed. There's no concrete value in getting people behind some group or movement if those people arent willing to make the personal sacrifice to push him out. You think that's the only thing that'll work? Despite clear evidence that the big push on social media against Sports Direct and his brands was getting a reaction out of him? Had on a second here, didn't you say before that the Spurs boycott and protest had no effect on Ashley going on Sky and then allowing the club to spend £80m? But now there's clear evidence that the social media campaigns have worked? I think there's clear evidence that they were working and that he was reacting to them, yes. Because it was happening over a prolonged period of time. Sports Direct had to stop tweeting for 2 weeks for christ sake. That kind of thing is major to a business like his. The Spurs boycott was a one-off of people not showing up who had already paid, so yes, I don't necessarily think that had any correlation whatsoever with him happening to spend a bit of money several months later.

Fine if you want to take your kid to the match, but don't fucking complain when others who have taken a harder stance criticize you for helping to fund Ashley after almost 12 years of complete trolling and mismanagement to fans. It's like the chants against Ashley on Saturday man, it's complete hypocrisy to the max. I'm not complaining. I'm trying to make you see possible reasons why people still go. If you, and others on here (you know who you are), don't appreciate the reasons and learn to accept them, then you'll never formulate an effective strategy for getting Ashley out. Because boycotts / walk ins etc are just never going to land with the vast majority of the fanbase. As I've previously said on here, get at Sports Direct. That's all he cares about. Don't think thats true. People just seem to have an incredibly high tolerance of being shat on by something they love. Doesnt mean that there isn't a limit though. Maybe... maybe things will change when Rafa goes, but if you're wanting to get as many people on board right now with forms of protest, affecting the matchday experience isn't going to be got behind, in my opinion. Sadly it's the only thing that will cause change and that's why it needs to be pushed. There's no concrete value in getting people behind some group or movement if those people arent willing to make the personal sacrifice to push him out. You think that's the only thing that'll work? Despite clear evidence that the big push on social media against Sports Direct and his brands was getting a reaction out of him?

Fine if you want to take your kid to the match, but don't fucking complain when others who have taken a harder stance criticize you for helping to fund Ashley after almost 12 years of complete trolling and mismanagement to fans. It's like the chants against Ashley on Saturday man, it's complete hypocrisy to the max. I'm not complaining. I'm trying to make you see possible reasons why people still go. If you, and others on here (you know who you are), don't appreciate the reasons and learn to accept them, then you'll never formulate an effective strategy for getting Ashley out. Because boycotts / walk ins etc are just never going to land with the vast majority of the fanbase. As I've previously said on here, get at Sports Direct. That's all he cares about. Don't think thats true. People just seem to have an incredibly high tolerance of being shat on by something they love. Doesnt mean that there isn't a limit though. Maybe... maybe things will change when Rafa goes, but if you're wanting to get as many people on board right now with forms of protest, affecting the matchday experience isn't going to be got behind, in my opinion.

Yeah, there's loads of things that we do together, but I want him to fall in love with it the same way that I did (we weren't very good when I started going too).

This ffs. My parents didn't get tickets and didn't have sky - I think I went to one game between the ages of 4-12 - and I was still a massive Newcastle fan despite barely seeing them play live or even on tv. Used to watch them in the pub whenever I could with my dad and when I did get a season ticket at the age of 15 it was brilliant. I wasn't being denied a 'right' to attend the match though - if you're taking your kids for that reason you're doing so because you want to - over and above your grievances with the owner. Just admit that, don't pretend you're doing so because Ashley would otherwise take away some sacred childhood bond you'd get with your kids What's the difference? I want to take my kid, yes. And I'm not going to let my dislike for the owner get in the way of building those bonds with my kid. And that's absolutely fine - but don't pretend that its something you have to do in order to raise your kid properly rather than something you want to do. Plenty of other ways to watch us that don't involve propping up the owner. And what if I believe that? My dad took me to games semi regularly from the age of 4. Those bonds I built with my dad through those years mean the world to me and were a huge part of my childhood. I want to have the same with my lad. So respectfully, Jonny, wind your fucking neck in and stop telling me (and others) what I should be doing. I'm not telling you what you should be doing. Feel free to go to the games. Just accept that you're going to come across as a hypocrite in the future when commenting on all things Ashley. I'm very aware of the hypocrisy. But as others on here will attest... I'm an active member of various protest groups, have been involved in the recent protests, and will continue to do so. I just happen to believe there are ways to get at Mike Ashley (as was proved by the very effective online protests against his business interests) that don't affect the enjoyment levels of the average match going fan. Like it or not, people still enjoy going to support their club, Ashley or not, so things should be focused online in my honest opinion. That was working for TMG in the summer, but was abandoned for matchday action, which clearly fell on deaf ears. Since then, everything has gone to shit.

This ffs. My parents didn't get tickets and didn't have sky - I think I went to one game between the ages of 4-12 - and I was still a massive Newcastle fan despite barely seeing them play live or even on tv. Used to watch them in the pub whenever I could with my dad and when I did get a season ticket at the age of 15 it was brilliant. I wasn't being denied a 'right' to attend the match though - if you're taking your kids for that reason you're doing so because you want to - over and above your grievances with the owner. Just admit that, don't pretend you're doing so because Ashley would otherwise take away some sacred childhood bond you'd get with your kids What's the difference? I want to take my kid, yes. And I'm not going to let my dislike for the owner get in the way of building those bonds with my kid. And that's absolutely fine - but don't pretend that its something you have to do in order to raise your kid properly rather than something you want to do. Plenty of other ways to watch us that don't involve propping up the owner. And what if I believe that? My dad took me to games semi regularly from the age of 4. Those bonds I built with my dad through those years mean the world to me and were a huge part of my childhood. I want to have the same with my lad. So respectfully, Jonny, wind your fucking neck in and stop telling me (and others) what I should be doing.

Fine if you want to take your kid to the match, but don't fucking complain when others who have taken a harder stance criticize you for helping to fund Ashley after almost 12 years of complete trolling and mismanagement to fans. It's like the chants against Ashley on Saturday man, it's complete hypocrisy to the max. I'm not complaining. I'm trying to make you see possible reasons why people still go. If you, and others on here (you know who you are), don't appreciate the reasons and learn to accept them, then you'll never formulate an effective strategy for getting Ashley out. Because boycotts / walk ins etc are just never going to land with the vast majority of the fanbase. As I've previously said on here, get at Sports Direct. That's all he cares about.

This ffs. My parents didn't get tickets and didn't have sky - I think I went to one game between the ages of 4-12 - and I was still a massive Newcastle fan despite barely seeing them play live or even on tv. Used to watch them in the pub whenever I could with my dad and when I did get a season ticket at the age of 15 it was brilliant. I wasn't being denied a 'right' to attend the match though - if you're taking your kids for that reason you're doing so because you want to - over and above your grievances with the owner. Just admit that, don't pretend you're doing so because Ashley would otherwise take away some sacred childhood bond you'd get with your kids What's the difference? I want to take my kid, yes. And I'm not going to let my dislike for the owner get in the way of building those bonds with my kid.

This is exactly what I was talking about last week and was called up on it. If you don’t do things you want to do just because of Ashley, then ultimately he wins. Just take her. I’ve taken my 3 year old twice this season. He’s loved it, even though we lost both times. I want to have that bond with my son, and I want him to fall in love with it. Ashley won’t be here forever, and life’s too short not to make memories with my lad. Ultimately he won’t remember whether we won or lost or whether some fat bastard was ruining the club. He’ll remember the buzz and the noise in the stadium when we score, and the day he’s spent with his dad. Ashley isn’t taking that away from me or him. Not specifically aimed at you, but I’m sick to the back teeth of the attitude on hear that you can be a better fan by not going to the games. Get over yourselves. Accept that ultimately it’s an emotional decision for a lot of people. Sure, if you take all emotion out of it, the correct thing to do is to stop going. But like it or not the emotional connection is huge for a lot of people. They are not mugs or thick or Ashley sympathisers or whatever. Everyone’s different.

Or...everything you read in the press is speculation and no one really knows.

That’s exactly the point. I, along with thousands others, are happy to get at him in every way we can other than stopping going. Why should we allow one man to stop us doing our hobby. Surely he wins. Maybe not financially, but his agenda wins if he makes it unbearable for us to be there. As long as Rafa is there or there’s something worth supporting I will be there. Happy to boycott a single match, sure, but not give it up. You've said yourself all he cares about is money. How does he win if you stop giving it to him? Your position is that you are thwarting him by giving him £500+ a year unconditionally and indefinitely. This position, to any impartial observer, is completely fucking mental. Btw there isn't anything worth supporting there. Hasn't been for years. Firstly I never said “unconditionally and indefinitely”. There are limits for everyone, but as I say, I’ve supported through much worse. It will get better. I guess I just don’t believe people not showing up will make the slightest bit of difference. Sports Direct and it’s branding is all he cares about, hence the PR machine going into full force when they were under attack. Focus on that.

That’s exactly the point. I, along with thousands others, are happy to get at him in every way we can other than stopping going. Why should we allow one man to stop us doing our hobby. Surely he wins. Maybe not financially, but his agenda wins if he makes it unbearable for us to be there. As long as Rafa is there or there’s something worth supporting I will be there. Happy to boycott a single match, sure, but not give it up. he wins by completely desecrating, running down, and taking the piss out of an entire city and a club and having 50k people pay the guy for it. Maybe. There’s more than one way to look at it.

That’s exactly the point. I, along with thousands others, are happy to get at him in every way we can other than stopping going. Why should we allow one man to stop us doing our hobby. Surely he wins. Maybe not financially, but his agenda wins if he makes it unbearable for us to be there. As long as Rafa is there or there’s something worth supporting I will be there. Happy to boycott a single match, sure, but not give it up.

Well there you go, already got 36000 people who are capable of protests and attacks on his business interests. How's that going? What have you done personally, out of interest? I'm an active member of The Magpie Group and Ashley Out. Why? To clarify, I've been to all of the protests, and helped out with organisation of bits and bobs. Good man. Just another 35999 people to convince then. As has already been proven, huge numbers of people are well up for campaigns against Ashley on social media or against his stores. So you'd expect them still to be happening, no? Or are people needing leadership? I've seen very little evidence that 36000 are getting involved tbh. I think people absolutely need leadership, yes. And no, not all 36000... you only need a couple of thousand to really make it work.

Another perfect example of why you'll never get the fans onside. You and several other posters on here think yourself to be "better" than them for not going to games. It's fucking weird man. People just have different priorities and different things going on in their lives. For some, NUFC is their main passion / hobby. The sooner people on here stop calling them "sheep" and thinking they're better than them, the better. Just accept their opinion, and look for a way to get at Ashley that most people can get on board with. What, you don't think NUFC is/was the main passion/hobby for those who've walked away because they don't want to fund what's happening to it like you do? You absolute plum. No I don't think that at all, why? I said everyone's circumstances and reasons are different, so you should just accept their stance and move on to finding a way to get at Ashley that is going to get more people on board.

Well there you go, already got 36000 people who are capable of protests and attacks on his business interests. How's that going? What have you done personally, out of interest? I'm an active member of The Magpie Group and Ashley Out. Why? To clarify, I've been to all of the protests, and helped out with organisation of bits and bobs. Good man. Just another 35999 people to convince then. As has already been proven, huge numbers of people are well up for campaigns against Ashley on social media or against his stores.

Another perfect example of why you'll never get the fans onside. You and several other posters on here think yourself to be "better" than them for not going to games. It's fucking weird man. People just have different priorities and different things going on in their lives. For some, NUFC is their main passion / hobby. The sooner people on here stop calling them "sheep" and thinking they're better than them, the better. Just accept their opinion, and look for a way to get at Ashley that most people can get on board with.

Well there you go, already got 36000 people who are capable of protests and attacks on his business interests. How's that going? What have you done personally, out of interest? I'm an active member of The Magpie Group and Ashley Out. Why? To clarify, I've been to all of the protests, and helped out with organisation of bits and bobs.

Well in that case, TBG, covmag, Wullie, Neesy, Kid Icarus etc, you are NEVER EVER going to get the fans to do what you want. You share the same mindset as most fans as to who the main problem is... but you are miles away from sharing/understanding the mindset of the 36000 people who paid to go to the Blackburn game for example. If you want any campaign against Ashley to be successful, you need to understand how people think. You need to find a protest solution that doesn't involve not going to the games. Because a boycott is NEVER EVER going to happen. That much should be completely clear to you now. Prolonged protests and attacks on his business interests... that is what will / has hurt him. Focus on that. I know loads of people who are right behind those efforts, but know hardly anyone who will stop going to games.

Neesy, you must understand that your aggressive stance on it is also part of the problem. People don't like being told what to do. Especially not people who have been supporting the club for a lot longer than you have. I personally will still be going to games, not because I like supporting Mike Ashley, but because I like supporting Newcastle United and watching my team play on a weekend. I don't see why that is so hard to grasp for some of you on here. I have zero desire to stop going. I don't always enjoy it, but I've supported them through arguably much tougher times than these. I would argue that fans not going to the game and not having their matchday routines / meetups causes more harm to that supporter's happiness. It's just in the blood. We don't want to have to stop going. We shouldn't have to stop going. I will (and have), however, 100% support any protest action that Ashley actually cares about... i.e. the protest action against Sports Direct and his other companies. Social media campaigns damaging his brand and their ability to function. That is, in my opinion, where The Magpie Group, IfRafaGoesWeGo, AshleyOut etc were having the most success. That is what sparked the Keith Bishop PR train, and that's what everyone should be focusing on. The Magpie Group (and other groups) took their eyes off the prize in that sense and started focusing on a boycott and walk-in that there is nearly zero appetite for. I personally don't believe Ashley would care one iota if 10,000 people didn't show up to a premier league game. I think you're incredibly naive if you think that he would. He cares about his company. Nothing else. (And no, before you say anything, I DON'T personally believe his decision to spend some money in the McClaren summer had anything at all to do with the Tottenham boycott.)

I’m sorry like. Everyone knows who’s really to blame, but Rafa and the players deserve a wave of criticism for performances like today. They’re not immune. I’m still in the stadium having watched that 90mins, and it was possibly the worst I’ve seen us play. Absolutely woeful all round, including from Rafa. what did you expect buying a ticket? Hey...maybe I’m crazy...but buying a ticket for a cup game (as 36,000 others did), I expect us to take the game to a championship team and beat them. I don’t expect us to sit deep, struggle to pass it over the halfway line, and ultimately perform worse than I’ve ever seen us. Unless you’re trying to hilariously imply that it’s somehow mine and 35999 other people’s fault? Yes, you must be crazy then. Our strongest 11 is made up of mainly championship players. And we play an even weaker side than that in the cups. You're fault for buying a ticket and expecting anything different. fuck off man I love Rafa and what he stands for, but his tactics at home have been woefully short this season. We play decent football away from home...it’s only tactics that are stopping us doing the same at home.

I’m sorry like. Everyone knows who’s really to blame, but Rafa and the players deserve a wave of criticism for performances like today. They’re not immune. I’m still in the stadium having watched that 90mins, and it was possibly the worst I’ve seen us play. Absolutely woeful all round, including from Rafa. what did you expect buying a ticket? Hey...maybe I’m crazy...but buying a ticket for a cup game (as 36,000 others did), I expect us to take the game to a championship team and beat them. I don’t expect us to sit deep, struggle to pass it over the halfway line, and ultimately perform worse than I’ve ever seen us. Not sure why you'd expect that bearing in mind I presume you've watched us before. Just stop going I’ve watched us plenty. I watched us on Wednesday night give Man Utd a good game for 60 mins. What if I don’t want to stop going? What if I just want to go and support and expect better?

I’m sorry like. Everyone knows who’s really to blame, but Rafa and the players deserve a wave of criticism for performances like today. They’re not immune. I’m still in the stadium having watched that 90mins, and it was possibly the worst I’ve seen us play. Absolutely woeful all round, including from Rafa. what did you expect buying a ticket? Hey...maybe I’m crazy...but buying a ticket for a cup game (as 36,000 others did), I expect us to take the game to a championship team and beat them. I don’t expect us to sit deep, struggle to pass it over the halfway line, and ultimately perform worse than I’ve ever seen us. Unless you’re trying to hilariously imply that it’s somehow mine and 35999 other people’s fault?

I’m sorry like. Everyone knows who’s really to blame, but Rafa and the players deserve a wave of criticism for performances like today. They’re not immune. I’m still in the stadium having watched that 90mins, and it was possibly the worst I’ve seen us play. Absolutely woeful all round, including from Rafa.