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There were times where I wasn't sure which way we were attacking such was the frequency we turned back on ourselves. I think Howe got a lot wrong today, really disappointing performance tbh. Only positives were Almirons cameo and Dubravka

Never was one to write off any of our players under the management teams we've had in our past but with Joelinton I gotta put my hand up and say at no point had I ever felt he was good enough until last Saturday. Hope he continues to prove me wrong.

OK, I'll bite. If I'm only bothered about promoted teams in context to how it impacts us at this present moment in time, then why do I care about what they do next season?! Nowt like a bit of stat padding, Fanny. So that's make 5 teams out of 9 who stay up in their 1st season up. Edit: but for the sake of argument, let's ignore all those facts and agree you're right and I'm wrong

It think he's safe no matter. The owners will be seeing how he operates and that'll be enough to convinve them to ignore the noise.

Says this: Your point is proven to be wrong by the fact more often than not recently, the three who come up go down Gives me stats proving his own shit point wrong Honestly that's enough from me, I don't want to derail this but for your own benefit, do teams with 6 points after 12 games. I'll let you have a full 20 years rather than just the last 3 though

Who said ahead of?! So hang on, you can name some teams who prove my point 'wrong' but ignore the absolute and unequivocal number of teams which prove your nonsensical point wrong. I'll make this point again, you've named about 2 teams who've escaped from our position (in about 20 years) and I can name about 8-10 who have stayed up an even established themselves in the league in the last 10. I dont actually know what's hard to grasp here. Honestly fanny you're a relentlessly crap poster Edit: anyway, cba anymore, don't think there's anything more to say. Pl's much much stronger now than it ever has been.

Cantwell, Pukki and Aaron's to name but 3 as you asked. The point being that the quality of the league overall is much much stronger than it ever was in the years gone past and that's without mentioning the fact the quality of managers is also unprecedented in this league at present. Hardly proven wrong like when you can only pull a couple of examples of teams who've escaped from our position in god knows how long... I dunno if I'm missing something but there's a significant number of teams who've come up from the championship and stayed up in recent years. I think there's only West Brom, Fulham and Stoke in the championship at present who've had any real time in the PL in the past decade, the rest of the league are thereabout teams, plus half the teams in the PL at present have come from the Championship, no?

All 3 teams have players I'd have in our team. Go back 5-6 years ago and that wouldn't happen. The league is absolutely full of quality. I dont remember in the past looking at Cardiff and thinking, "aye there's 2-3 players who'd be more than good enough for our team"

Poorly put from me but I was referencing posts saying how teams have escaped relegation from worse positions than us in the past and how that's not a fair comparison owing to the fact that teams coming up are now getting promoted with gifted players whereas I don't think that was the case in the past.

People looking at the past for examples of precedents are ignoring the fact that the quality of the league has grown exponentially these past few years. Even Championship teams are coming up with premeir league quality players in their midst. A few years ago buying from the Championship was rare, now it's a good indicator of quality as the league is so good itself.

Obviously I don't know for certain, but I'd be hugely surprised if PIF hadn't sounded out other managers. Seems inconceivable that Emery and Howe were and always were number 1 and 2 target. Not a dig at Eddie, like, really impressed with things so far but I think it's naive to suggest this gets fixed in January solely because we're minted. There's a lot of factors players will be considering other than just money; relegation, no CL, the manager's profile, the fact it's mid season and the summer window is only a few months away etc etc. Players turn down pay packets literally all the time, it's naive to think it'll be different for us.

Same could have been said for our manager search but it didn't quite turn out that way.

The ace up our sleeve is the January window, but even then I don't know what kind of player would join us under these circumstances. Even if we were somehow manage to scrape our way to 17th by Jan (which looks like the absolute very best case scenario with our fixture list), which players would join be willing to join a relegation scrap? The better players will always have better options, and the lesser quality players who would still be quality signings will surely always be thinking about the eventuality that they'll be replaced soon as safety is secured. I've gone from being quite optimistic and excited to genuinly worried that our defence will ultimately cost us.

Thought he had a very good second half and happy to see his workrate but not sure Willock was the right partner for him and vice versa.

Excellent today. That late chance was a shocker but after seeing that performance I feel quite confident he'll learn from that, which is not something I thought I see myself write.

Not sure we escape this. Saw plenty of positives today, but the biggest disappointment was that we still looked disorganised defensively, and that was something I'd hoped would be addressed straight away or would at least see some semblence of change. Convincing targets to join us in January is going to be a tough ask coming out that December fixture list. Things need to improve dramatically and quickly.

Interesting none of us could figure out what formation we could be playing, which says less about us and more about the fact we learnt fuck all about the players the last 2 years.

Gutted lads

We're a final destination now

Don't listen to what anyone says, you should both absolutely carry on doing God's work Also, Potter>>>>>>OGS

If they are then let me be the first to tell them they're cunts for working for that shitrag.

I honestly depise this aspect of football so so much, it's pure cancer for the game, but after the way the PL treated us the past 18 months and with the media, pundits and other fans basically calling us cunts for the past 20 years, I would like nothing more than for us to take the absolute piss if it meant that everyone who is pissed off by our situation becomes even more pissed off. Fuck 'em.

I am surprised there's not been more intensity in the team, hence why I question the fitness levels, but I didn't think he'd come anyway near undoing whats been (or hasn't been) instilled into the team these past 2 years, I think our issues on the field go way past tactics, formations, style of play and team selections tbh.

Won't criticise him at all for how we play but the fact there hasn't seem been any improvement in the team fitness levels is inexcusable.

Come full circle now. Name me a top manager who hasn't had any failings in their career and started right at the top? Of course there may be some, but the vast majority will have made the step from a smaller club to a huge one and the truth of the matter is that if Howe was employed by a huge club at any point before his relegation at Bournemouth, not many would have batted an eyelid. There's a unique opportunity for him to test his skills out at a club aiming to be a prominent club and there's not many of those clubs about, in many ways, this could be the perfect role for him.