Kid Icarus

The number of countries who have murdered journalists is quite short - and the list of those who have dismembered journalists shorter still. Let's not p*ss on our legs and say it's raining. I’d argue that the 2007 video that Wikileaks put out of the Americans killing several journalists and civilians and laughing about it was equally as chilling. The USA and the UK for that matter have far more blood on their hands than Saudi do overall. So let’s not sit up on some moral high horse. I’m not saying we should condone any of it by the way, we shouldn’t, but if you’re going to criticise one nation right now you should also be able to turn that magnifying glass on others too. None of the other nations are buying us. If they were you'd see exactly the same objection to it from exactly the same people. You might be right, but technically we aren't being bought by a nation, it's an investment fund which is co-buying NUFC alongside the Ruebens and Staveley's firm. You could quite rightly argue that this is just technical waffle, but then you could question Man City's and Chelsea's ownerships as well. By all means we can have protests, but this has been going on for so long now, it is barely worth bothering about for most of us. Man City and Chelsea's ownership has been questioned plenty of times. I agree on the very last part though, I don't think anyone's intending to stage a protest where they're representing about 2% of the fan base though. I was just replying to make the point that whichever other comparatively bad regime you want to choose, the same objections would still be there if they were in to buy us.

The number of countries who have murdered journalists is quite short - and the list of those who have dismembered journalists shorter still. Let's not p*ss on our legs and say it's raining. I’d argue that the 2007 video that Wikileaks put out of the Americans killing several journalists and civilians and laughing about it was equally as chilling. The USA and the UK for that matter have far more blood on their hands than Saudi do overall. So let’s not sit up on some moral high horse. I’m not saying we should condone any of it by the way, we shouldn’t, but if you’re going to criticise one nation right now you should also be able to turn that magnifying glass on others too. None of the other nations are buying us. If they were you'd see exactly the same objection to it from exactly the same people.

Has the bit in bold been suggested btw? I didn't see it if it has. There'll never ever be protests like, even those against it know it would be a complete waste of time and energy. Si mentioned protesting in an earlier message, was responding to that. Must have missed it.

Has the bit in bold been suggested btw? I didn't see it if it has. There'll never ever be protests like, even those against it know it would be a complete waste of time and energy.

Is Si not allowed to have principles without having to roll out his alternative manifesto like?

I doubt you’d get the result you’re hoping for. Depends on what you think I'm hoping for. I think most people on this thread Would know what result you’d hope for. I honestly don't think you do like, but never mind.

Maybe in your own world, wouldn’t take a genius to know what the result to be. I agree. Tell that to those who reckon the appetite for this takeover is more about getting rid of Ashley than it is about being owned by the Saudi state.

I doubt you’d get the result you’re hoping for. Depends on what you think I'm hoping for.

Would be interesting to see a poll on how many would prefer the Saudi state vs potential American owners.

I love that pattern tbh, but it looks daft on a football top.

I do wonder at what point these people will stop and think 'what am I deein'?' like Properly deranged

You're missing nothing man. It's fine though, I think we've all had our fun abusing the spirit of forum with our exchanging of ideas and views on things.

Not a single dissenting voice when this was first announced? but i make one comment on the SAME FUCKING THING, palnese gets his pearls clutched so tightly he's cutting off the circulation to his hand, and suddenly i want every single season ticket holder to be penniless? what a fucking joke. That's the last I'll say on the matter. Cute gang attack though. Cv19. Taking money off fans for nothing in return in this current economical climate is terrible. Normally I'd also think well its their own fault for putting money in to Ashley's pocket but that football shit doesn't matter too much now, money in pockets, food on tables are priority. If you can't see that, then KI doubles down then expect the floodgates to open. It doesn't really need to be doubled down on tbf. CV-19, the support package, and lock-down all started before the date of those posts. It was all just kicking off at that time, no one really knew where this was all going, how long and what the future would look like. Months in things have change, we're cv19 vets now and the feeling has changed dramatically, especially for something like football, it's really not important and priorities lie elsewhere. March seems like a lifetime ago. I was at work, in amongst people, ffs. Dunno how to make this point without summoning the virtue signal response team and I'm sure you already know like, but that's the same thing that drives the argument of the minority who would like us to all be against the takeover. It's kind of hard to take on board that we shouldn't laugh at the arse holes in our support losing out on money because there are more important things in life when the Saudis...well you know rest and get the point.

Not a single dissenting voice when this was first announced? but i make one comment on the SAME FUCKING THING, palnese gets his pearls clutched so tightly he's cutting off the circulation to his hand, and suddenly i want every single season ticket holder to be penniless? what a fucking joke. That's the last I'll say on the matter. Cute gang attack though. Cv19. Taking money off fans for nothing in return in this current economical climate is terrible. Normally I'd also think well its their own fault for putting money in to Ashley's pocket but that football shit doesn't matter too much now, money in pockets, food on tables are priority. If you can't see that, then KI doubles down then expect the floodgates to open. It doesn't really need to be doubled down on tbf. CV-19, the support package, and lock-down all started before the date of those posts.

And what you and others still fail to understand, is that abusing our own supporters even when you fundamentally disagree with what they are doing achieved nothing other than make you feel better. It entrenches their position and made them even more unlikely to see the bigger picture and change their ways. Greg, you know as well as I do that I left the whole campaigning side of things ages ago. There were times in the past when I and others took our frustration out on fans, realised it was counterproductive and attempted to do the whole kubaya thing, but it changed nothing and never would have. Rafa leaving/Bruce's arrival was the only thing that made the crowds finally dip and no amount of us being nice to fans we disagree with would change anything prior to that. Again though, I dunno why I keep having to make this point, but people hurling abuse, spitting at you, and starting on you aren't simply fans with a difference of opinion. It's not about being nice, it's about educating them but we never really got the chance to do that given a lot of those of us involved in effect gave up the fight, and then a load of new people tried the same old things we had done and surprise surprise nothing changed. I was there as you know - and those in that category you mentioned was a very small minority of the majority of others that just ignored it and kept on going (it probably felt like more at the time but the grant scheme of the 40 odd thousands it really wasn't many, as horrible as it was). Idiots are idiots and we have some in our fan base as does every club. To turn that around and tarnish all match going fans and abusing them on here and elsewhere does nothing though - it literally achieves nothing. It is giving up and just ranting to make yourself feel better. You are probably right that nothing meaningful would have ever changed, but if that is your view and you decided to give up that fight then let it be. But don't make yourself feel better by going around calling out other fans, it's antagonistic and utterly pointless and just drives further division. I haven't done that Greg. I've ranted in the past about people still going to the match despite hating Ashley, as loads of us have on here, but that's not what was happening in this discussion at all.

Because there is nothing to counter argue about. People know fine and well now, you just pop in here all antagonistic and full of fury, looking for an argument that nobody can be arsed to have with you. The attitude of always jumping in that you are constantly right on all matters doesn't help your cause either and probably why most people just let you get on with it. Nobody wants to argue at all, it only seems to end up that way when you make an appearance. Ehh hold on, I was responding to the people who are desperate for the Saudi state to own their football club trying to lay down to other people what is and isn't decent. If pointing out that I think that's bullshit and they aren't in any position to arbitrate decency makes people uncomfortable, makes me antagonistic, or makes people think I have nefarious reasons for posting, so be it. See, you twist it to come across in your antagonistic way. the bit in bold isn't true though. People are not "desperate for the Saudi state to own their football club". The majority of people are desperate to see the back of Ashley, this doesn't make them fans of "baby bombers" or dying to see "mass murderers", and you know this as it has been discussed to death already. It's always put across as all people are cunts who don't agree with your own take. Wish you'd get over this whole tackling me and not the issue thing like. I'm being honest with my points, if you don't think I'm not being honest then don't reply to me like you say you've already been doing. The people who applauded the post against mine and ManDoon's supposed indecency are desperate for this takeover to happen. Whether you want to frame that as being desperate for Ashley to leave or being desperate for this specific takeover by the Saudi state to happen, it still doesn't put them in any position to tell anyone what is and isn't decent and it doesn't help the argument that it's just desperation for Ashley to leave when there was potentially another offer on the table a few weeks back and folk were saying they'd prefer the Saudis. Sorry, not sure what you mean in that first sentence. I am not tackling you, I am just replying to your comments, as you are the one making them. Also not sure what you mean about being honest or not, nobody is calling you a liar. People can disagree with you though, especially when you put it across so over the top and crass as you do. "It doesn't put them in any position". Well that's compared to your own take. I also don't think anyone who agreed with it should be called fans of baby bombers as you so dramatically replied with for full effect. When you need to start throwing comments like that about it is only for the reason of arguing and not to discuss anything. What I mean by the first sentence is that you seem more concerned with the supposed nefariousness of my posting than what I'm actually posting. As if I'm not really invested in the points I'm making, or that I'm deliberately posting in a dishonest way that's nearer to trollery than inciting debate. And yeah, of course it's based on my own take, I don't think the people who can look at what the Saudi state has done square in the eyes and then justified wanting this takeover to happen are in any position to scold others for not coming up to their own standards of what is and isn't decent. I'm sorry, but I just don't. Everyone can come to their own conclusion about the takeover, just as I have, just as you have, just as everyone else has, but to then go on and try and tell other people what is and isn't morally decent is, imo, a total piss take. I'm actually enjoying debating with you, so don't take it as some kind of personal attack. I don't normally pay much attention to the name that posts when I read and more just what has been said and I respond. I just feel your posts stand out as they always come across in an antagonistic way, instead of a reasoned way. It was not about what you are trying to say. For me, it's more about how you put it across and how you come across when posting it. Especially such inflammatory wording as "Desperate to support baby bombers" etc. It just comes across as a way of arguing (see we have managed to turn this thread into even more filth again. ) Catch you again same time next week? Nah that's fair. Don't for one second think that I don't know I'm shit at making persuasive arguments like.

I think it's weird that you dont see how that logic is just as flawed as the whole "well you use twitter/drive a car" argument. Because the chronology didn't start with me coming out of the blocks making a whataboutist point, it's started with the people who have whatever reason to justify their own moral stance on the takeover (which isn't what I'm attacking btw) then turning around and telling someone laughing at the shit heads in our support not getting a refund that they're being indecent. Considering how many times it's been put forward that it's not black and white, that everyone will make their own decision, that no one should be attacked for supporting their club etc - most of which I agree with and I think has been by and large understood- you'd think folk would maybe keep that in mind when they're presented with the context of 'these people verbally abused, spat at, and started on people we know' before 180*-ing on what is and isn't morally decent.

Because there is nothing to counter argue about. People know fine and well now, you just pop in here all antagonistic and full of fury, looking for an argument that nobody can be arsed to have with you. The attitude of always jumping in that you are constantly right on all matters doesn't help your cause either and probably why most people just let you get on with it. Nobody wants to argue at all, it only seems to end up that way when you make an appearance. Ehh hold on, I was responding to the people who are desperate for the Saudi state to own their football club trying to lay down to other people what is and isn't decent. If pointing out that I think that's bullshit and they aren't in any position to arbitrate decency makes people uncomfortable, makes me antagonistic, or makes people think I have nefarious reasons for posting, so be it. See, you twist it to come across in your antagonistic way. the bit in bold isn't true though. People are not "desperate for the Saudi state to own their football club". The majority of people are desperate to see the back of Ashley, this doesn't make them fans of "baby bombers" or dying to see "mass murderers", and you know this as it has been discussed to death already. It's always put across as all people are cunts who don't agree with your own take. Wish you'd get over this whole tackling me and not the issue thing like. I'm being honest with my points, if you don't think I'm not being honest then don't reply to me like you say you've already been doing. The people who applauded the post against mine and ManDoon's supposed indecency are desperate for this takeover to happen. Whether you want to frame that as being desperate for Ashley to leave or being desperate for this specific takeover by the Saudi state to happen, it still doesn't put them in any position to tell anyone what is and isn't decent and it doesn't help the argument that it's just desperation for Ashley to leave when there was potentially another offer on the table a few weeks back and folk were saying they'd prefer the Saudis. Sorry, not sure what you mean in that first sentence. I am not tackling you, I am just replying to your comments, as you are the one making them. Also not sure what you mean about being honest or not, nobody is calling you a liar. People can disagree with you though, especially when you put it across so over the top and crass as you do. "It doesn't put them in any position". Well that's compared to your own take. I also don't think anyone who agreed with it should be called fans of baby bombers as you so dramatically replied with for full effect. When you need to start throwing comments like that about it is only for the reason of arguing and not to discuss anything. What I mean by the first sentence is that you seem more concerned with the supposed nefariousness of my posting than what I'm actually posting. As if I'm not really invested in the points I'm making, or that I'm deliberately posting in a dishonest way that's nearer to trollery than inciting debate. And yeah, of course it's based on my own take, I don't think the people who can look at what the Saudi state has done square in the eyes and then justified wanting this takeover to happen are in any position to scold others for not coming up to their own standards of what is and isn't decent. I'm sorry, but I just don't. Everyone can come to their own conclusion about the takeover, just as I have, just as you have, just as everyone else has, but to then go on and try and tell other people what is and isn't morally decent is, imo, a total piss take. You'd think folk who've talked themselves into supporting this takeover, defended their position, and denounced any moral criticism would have the courtesy to not do exactly that to others within the same thread over something that pales in comparison.

Fancy despising someone for going to a football match though I mean that's not what I'm doing like, but it's fucking hilarious that it's you attempting to make this point when you did exactly that for years. Don't despise anyone me. Not even mackems. Obviously touched a nerve with you all the same. I suggest you chill out. Not at all, I just think it's funny that you're making that point after that Wullie post a couple of years ago.

And what you and others still fail to understand, is that abusing our own supporters even when you fundamentally disagree with what they are doing achieved nothing other than make you feel better. It entrenches their position and made them even more unlikely to see the bigger picture and change their ways. Greg, you know as well as I do that I left the whole campaigning side of things ages ago. There were times in the past when I and others took our frustration out on fans, realised it was counterproductive and attempted to do the whole kubaya thing, but it changed nothing and never would have. Rafa leaving/Bruce's arrival was the only thing that made the crowds finally dip and no amount of us being nice to fans we disagree with would change anything prior to that. Again though, I dunno why I keep having to make this point, but people hurling abuse, spitting at you, and starting on you aren't simply fans with a difference of opinion.

You don't see the point at all, particularly as you're trying to frame people hurling abuse, spitting at, and literally starting on other supporters as 'people with different opinions' Shit, I didn't realise that they started on you! Yeah, that's fine then, they probably deserve financial ruin during a global pandemic. Hope their families end up on the streets too, the little cunts. Yes, laughing at cunts not getting their season ticket money back is the same as wishing them and their families complete financial ruin. In the same way being positive about the takeover is being desperate to be owned by baby bombers? He really doesn't understand it does he. He does, he's sitting at home stroking himself in to a frenzy at all the attention he's getting. Ignore him, it'll hurt him more. So fucking weird.

Fancy despising someone for going to a football match though I mean that's not what I'm doing like, but it's fucking hilarious that it's you attempting to make this point when you did exactly that for years.

You don't see the point at all, particularly as you're trying to frame people hurling abuse, spitting at, and literally starting on other supporters as 'people with different opinions' Shit, I didn't realise that they started on you! Yeah, that's fine then, they probably deserve financial ruin during a global pandemic. Hope their families end up on the streets too, the little cunts. Yes, laughing at cunts not getting their season ticket money back is the same as wishing them and their families complete financial ruin. In the same way being positive about the takeover is being desperate to be owned by baby bombers? He really doesn't understand it does he. Not sure what's so difficult to for you to understand that I'm talking about specific people like. It's you two that are broadening it to include all fans.

Because there is nothing to counter argue about. People know fine and well now, you just pop in here all antagonistic and full of fury, looking for an argument that nobody can be arsed to have with you. The attitude of always jumping in that you are constantly right on all matters doesn't help your cause either and probably why most people just let you get on with it. Nobody wants to argue at all, it only seems to end up that way when you make an appearance. Ehh hold on, I was responding to the people who are desperate for the Saudi state to own their football club trying to lay down to other people what is and isn't decent. If pointing out that I think that's bullshit and they aren't in any position to arbitrate decency makes people uncomfortable, makes me antagonistic, or makes people think I have nefarious reasons for posting, so be it. See, you twist it to come across in your antagonistic way. the bit in bold isn't true though. People are not "desperate for the Saudi state to own their football club". The majority of people are desperate to see the back of Ashley, this doesn't make them fans of "baby bombers" or dying to see "mass murderers", and you know this as it has been discussed to death already. It's always put across as all people are cunts who don't agree with your own take. Wish you'd get over this whole tackling me and not the issue thing like. I'm being honest with my points, if you don't think I'm not being honest then don't reply to me like you say you've already been doing. The people who applauded the post against mine and ManDoon's supposed indecency are desperate for this takeover to happen. Whether you want to frame that as being desperate for Ashley to leave or being desperate for this specific takeover by the Saudi state to happen, it still doesn't put them in any position to tell anyone what is and isn't decent and it doesn't help the argument that it's just desperation for Ashley to leave when there was potentially another offer on the table a few weeks back and folk were saying they'd prefer the Saudis.

You don't see the point at all, particularly as you're trying to frame people hurling abuse, spitting at, and literally starting on other supporters as 'people with different opinions' Shit, I didn't realise that they started on you! Yeah, that's fine then, they probably deserve financial ruin during a global pandemic. Hope their families end up on the streets too, the little cunts. Yes, laughing at cunts not getting their season ticket money back is the same as wishing them and their families complete financial ruin.