Kid Icarus

I'd be very surprised if you proved any point with that question tbh, there'll be plenty who won't go and those that do aren't disqualified from stating a preference for non-murdering owners or indulging in unparalleled whataboutisms.

Well, if you're not ok with it, then just walk away. Or watch with disinterest and disapproval if you like. For me it's always been about wanting to watch a successful Newcastle team, I'll leave the politics to other people. If PIF are passed fit to be owners by those who are charged with these duties, then that's that far as I'm concerned. I will certainly enjoy watching Newcastle become a proper football club again, I don't think it will cost me much at all. This ... Will they walk away though ? Or will they find an excuse to attend whilst attempting to claim the moral high ground as opposed to the poor beknighted masses ? I can understand not wanting to be associated with the Saudis tbh, but everyone has their own limit. I sympathise with those who feel it more strongly, I would hate not to be able to enjoy being part of a successful NUFC. For me that would be the cost I couldn't live with. Its telling that they are continually being asked the question : " Will you still attend matches " ? and all you get back is silence ... I'll answer then. No, I won't be attending matches or giving them any money. Happy?

The answer to that is simple, they do. https://www.amnestyusa.org/issues/national-security/ good point. The likes of Amnesty and Human Rights Watch have been critical of the USG for as long as they've existed. Not only that either, but you know as well as I do that there are plenty on here who've discussed U.S foreign regime change on here over the years, so it's not like folk are being inconsistent.

Tbf it seems pretty obvious that people care about whether others care about the Saudi's human rights record, like. There are people clearly interpreting the personal choices of others as automatic moral chastising of their own.

Over and over and over and over and over, like a monkey with a miniature symbol

https://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/usa/

The answer to that is simple, they do. https://www.amnestyusa.org/issues/national-security/

Ah there we go , get the class hatred out of your system You might be happy with framing it as a class trait, but I can assure you other people within the same class aren't. You know very well who he was aiming that statement at ... Yeah, squarely at the people doing it. If it was solely a class issue I'd be agreeing with you but it's not, you've just chosen to interpret it that way or think you speak on behalf of the working class.

Ah there we go , get the class hatred out of your system You might be happy with framing it as a class trait, but I can assure you other people within the same class aren't.

It's possible to support your football club and make whatever decision your conscience is comfortable with without feeling the need to defend baby bombers or indulging in unparalleled whataboutisms, like. You don't need to do both and your participation in something you have no control over but would like to see improved/prefer not to participate in doesn't make you a hypocrite either. If it did make you a hypocrite, the thousands who despise Ashley yet still insist on attending matches and giving him money wouldn't have been using the support the team not the regime excuse for the last 13 years. So why the same people would now feel the need to go beyond that and actually defend someone who's objectively infinitely more revolting than Ashley, I don't know. Conversely anyone not automatically on their knees boot-licking the devil because they might improve their favourite football team's fortunes isn't a snowflake in that situation either, that's an insult reserved for people with IDPol brain, not people uncomfortable with the club they support being owned by one of the most reprehensible people in the world ffs. Absolutely nothing wrong with anything Mr Misery said imo.

Excellent post

For some reason I can't edit my post, but deleted that one bit above because it's a distinction without a difference.

you can have all the systems you like the common problem is humanity itself not the systems. To lay the blame solely at capatalism or whatever else you can name is to ignore the fact theres always lot of scumbags who weasel themselves into positions of power and will try and screw everyone over for their benefit Humanity isn't solely good or bad by nature, it's good and bad by nature. So likewise you can't just say that humanity's to fault so we shouldn't bother with apportioning any blame to systems that support the bad and not attempt to improve. If your premise was correct, civilisation would have never advanced.

Tbf, it's not the best system we have, it's just the only system we have and it collapses on average every 7 to 10 years. Funnily enough the same point you're making was made endlessly about feudalism before capitalism began. There aren't different forms of capitalism either really, only restricted versions that will always always fight to be unrestricted. Probably something for another thread as a wider discussion like, but it's undeniable that it relates to this discussion though, because capitalism is responsible for ripping the soul out of football, and more or less anything that can be monetised.

Although I dunno if you're making that as a side point to this or as an excuse.

Wrong thread for discussion on capitalism. Just as relevant as it would be in the Covid-19 thread tbh

Good stuff Greg.

It's more cultural cleaning, no? The UK policy with the Saudis is already:

Wullie[/member] Summary?

Dunno if anyone on here's seen it, but this reminds me a lot of the closing line in Fighting in the Age of Loneliness, a documentary by Felix Biederman about MMA. "If you've somehow made it to the end of this and you're not an MMA fan, I hope you take one thing away from this - this will happen to everything you love. Nothing you like will remain untouched and it'll get further and further monetised into meaninglessness. This isn't just our problem in our idiotic blood sport. You're fucked too."

If it happens we'll sure enough find out the courage in whatever convictions we have. Personally I'm dead against them being owners in every way, but will probably end up being a hypocrite and backing down and watching matches. If ever give them any money to them though, you have permission to throw me off a building.

I don't give a s**** about human rights abuses within the context of a sport Thanks bud. Good to get the moral depravity out in the open. You have no idea of my moral depravity. Keep virtue signalling though, you pure sainted man, sure that'll stop the bombs. You won't support the propaganda vehicle of a murderous, theocratic, terrorism-sponsoring regime? What a lily-livered virtue-signaller you are! Got anything made in China in your house? Got a car? Eat chicken? You turn a blind eye to abuses all the time, every day. Get tae f*** with this holier than thou bullshit. It's a football club. Politics is sorted at the ballot box, not on the pitch. One of the classics, that.

You’ve stopped caring. Now let us celebrate the likely dethroning of the biggest tyrant nufc has had since the last one. We’ll check our moral compasses in due course. All I said was that not being happy about your club being owned by murderers doesn't mean you're virtue signalling.

How many do you think are doing the same but with the concept of us being owned by 'probable murderers' instead of 'muzzies'? Lots, hence the first line of my post