St. Maximin

Aye, get your point, missing front 3 and Schar is leaving anyone a mountain to climb, but I can’t excuse the total drop off in intensity and change of approach. He bottled it missing those players. We saw same approach he kept persisting with earlier this year when he was without ASM. Backwards passing from midfield, no runners forward, no intensity in anything, rushing the ball forward, and clearly just trying to play directly to Joelinton against a full back. He went back to same approach he was responsible too before Jones came in. Proves the ‘doing it my way’ stuff was bollocks, as today must have been him just going back to how players wanted then. Carbon copy approach, plan and performance to any of those games up until Everton away. Could have easily shoved Fraser into Almiron role, and Murphy/Ritchie (lol) wide left. He shithoused it and stuck Hendrick back in. Squad may be less talented and full of dossers, but he’s incapable of getting anywhere near best from them. Whether that’s tactically, or just numerous factors going into them wanting to play for him and run through brick walls to get a win. Yep, I still agree with all that. Tactics were horrendous throughout and we heavily relied on luck earlier on also. Not really getting the persistence with this formation. It seems set up to support Miggy but surely today of all times he needed to mix it round. We can keep the higher intensity and pressing under Jones under a different formation I’d have thought. No proper wingers or strikers seems a bit odd unless you’re Barca under Guardiola etc.

our injury crisis only started this past week. We had the covid crisis also. I know every team has been affected by it but we had ASM out for two months and hardly had great alternatives.

I’ve said before I don’t want to defend Bruce, especially today, but do we really have a top 16/17 squad given our injury crisis? Fulham, Palace and Brighton have more depth. Burnley are probably worse on paper though. Fulham just brought Loftus-Cheek off the bench and Mitrovic can’t get a game. Our best 11 on paper included Shelvey or a Longstaff until one of Arsenal’s fringe players joined. I am kind of playing Devil’s advocate as we all know it goes much deeper than positions and points, but I can kind of see why dim pundits defend him.

Joelinton offers us more than Carroll I disagree, he's utterly s***. Theres f*** all evidence to suggest he offers more other than he's played more minutes than everyone at the club. It’s to suit the formation though isn’t it? He’s played as a wide forward, which doesn’t suit Gayle and Carroll. Fraser definitely won’t be playing as a traditional CF. I mean I’d rather we mixed it up and played 4-3-3 but maybe Bruce/Jones want to stick with the this formation.

The coward is playing for the sack surely?

Colback had 4 goals and 6 assists in his first season apparently. His all round game was terrible but even then it was better than Hendrick’s. I’m still not sure what he’s supposed to be good at.

Yeah I try not to see it as a big issue. It’s more weird. These guys are pretty irrelevant and it’s uncommon for fans to be singing their praises for their punditry. I agree about Keys also but he’s far and away the biggest laughing stock of them all and widely considered an awful bloke.

Such pundits are becoming parodies of themselves but I do wonder if Bruce has pictures of them naked or something (not something I try to think about mind). I’m sure Bruce has genuinely convinced some people he’s a nice bloke, but I really doubt he has enough time on his hands to be bessies with them all. I doubt many of them really know him. Simon Jordan actually said he didn’t speak to Bruce for four years after he ditched Palace (he is a nice bloke though) and still weirdly sticks up for him. The reluctance to criticise an imbecile and terrible manager is just a bit weird to be honest.

Yep. I think VAR should be still be used as the technology is excellent and available. Other sports use it so football should also. However, it's been used so badly that I can understand why many would rather it wasn't part of the game. I like to think the issues could be addressed rather than seeing it as a case of no VAR or VAR as things stand. I wouldn't be too sad to see it not being used for offsides but I think it could be an option for the most blatant offside errors, so all the bother of organising an offside trap isn't going to waste etc. I think that seems pretty reasonable compared to what we saw last night when Werner was effectively offside for pointing where the pass should be received.

He’s not wrong but the Fulham disallowed goal was crazily still correct and due to a stupid rule. I think they should change that rule to make exceptions for such cases as well as some of the protocols such as marginal offsides (I mean Werner’s tonight was ridiculous), but I think a chance for the ref to rewatch is good to have for red cards, penalties, key fouls etc.

Fantastic. Saying that Hope is normally spot on about Bruce, but was he right on this occasion? I can understand why Bruce got annoyed but then again I'm past caring now. I still can't get over the fact he's still in a job

Yeah he’s completely devoid of class. Someone could be completely out of his depth as a manager and a nice bloke and he’d have my sympathy with all the criticism, but he just seems a good example of someone who knows how to come across all warm and likeable when really they’re snakes who are only it for themselves. Saying that I don’t get the best impression of this Jones bloke so far. Maybe I’m being cynical but surely he must have realised he’s undermining Bruce and could end up taking over. I’m not surprised if Bruce is threatened by him, but clearly he should have been long gone before getting to work with Jones.

Looked up the 06-07 table and didn't realise we were only 5 points clear of 18th. Not good, but by the same token he wasn't exactly brilliantly supported (all his early transfer targets like Kuyt, Gravesen, Sol Campbell went to other clubs; we ended up with Duff who we didn't even need and gambled on a crocked Olivier Benard return/Rossi loan on deadline day) plus he had all those injuries during the season. His caretaker spell and the Uefa run the following season does put him up above most of the offerings by the majority of the managerial dross that followed him. Seems like a brilliant guy and will be sadly missed. Yeah having to replace Shearer can’t have been easy also and when in Europe you always have the challenges of injuries. Deserves huge amount of credit for his caretaker spell alone (amazing to think we got into Europe from being relegation-threatened), but sounds like he was an excellent all-round servant also from what I hear. Some great tributes to the man going round.

That spell after Souness left was phenomenal and while the following season was disappointing, I still had some great memories of Europe and other times that season, especially as it’s when I started going to away games. Always seemed like a very good bloke and it’s clear he was highly respected across football communities. Very sad news.

I was calling for a Dubravka recall but I’m not overly bothered who is in goal. Darlow for the first half this season played better than Dubravka has over that period and it’s not like Dubravka has never made howlers for us before.

It's Steve Bruce's way. Both will be the false no.10. Aye, at least the gloves are off now. Not sure why he can’t change it to 4-2-3-1 and play ASM, Miggy and Fraser in their best positions. Maybe I’m expecting too much though.

So what is our formation? Are ASM and Joelinton CF, wingers or somewhere in between? Tbh it’s improved us lots and I thought Joelinton put in a good shift against Man Utd, but it seems like we don’t use strikers.

I miss the rapturousness and would love them to get rid of VAR permanently At present the cons badly outweigh the pros, but I think with a serious look at the protocols, which includes getting rid of stupid marginal overturns because an elbow was offside or the like, far fewer goals would be reviewed and therefore fans can celebrate with more confidence. If a goal gets fairly chalked off for a clear foul or offside, so be it. At least it would be fair and proves setting up an offside trap is worth the risk etc. Disallowed goals aren’t a new thing but I appreciate it would be nice if we saw fewer of them.

Do the pundits never feel bad about how much nicer they are to Bruce than other managers (say, foreigners)? It’s so weird. I’m pretty sure Bruce is a busy enough man to not be best buds with all of these idiots. I doubt they’re all panicking over their friendship with a bloke many of them probably barely know, but still won’t criticise him.

Then it'll be the players aren't good enough. 'He just simply hasn't had the backing from the club needed'. 'We'll leave it there Gary. Coming up next on Monday Night Football, is Joelinton at a whopping £45M the biggest Premier League flop ever. Thoughts from Jamie and Gary coming up' "The manager can only do so much. Once the whistle blows it's the players who have got to go out and DO it!" Not to give the simpleton an inch here but that’s actually a valid point... We’ve so much dross in the side, we all always up against it. Standards are so low, meaning consistency is never there. Once in 20 or so games we put something together that resembles a performance. Always up against it relying on Krath, Lewis, and Shelvey, Joe to somehow get a 5/10, in the blind hope they put in a 8+ performance. Like Almiron running free, and Joe loafing nowhere near him. Clark far post header back across goal, Joe stood in the D of the box. You can’t legislate for such pure incompetence. Krath too square and being nutmegged by Rahford, then in his brain dead panick to atone gets done inside when only way he should be shown is 4 yards to by line. You’re right. On paper we should be just above the relegation zone under most managers given the dross in our squad and injuries. Bruce is just lucky it’s not been far worse given how we have played most matches. No team playing Lewis and Krafth should be surprised they are in a relegation battle. It’s more the performances and not the points that have been unacceptable imo. How well do people think our squad should really be doing?

It was given offside initially so fair enough it’s not given, otherwise the linesman would be overturned when correct. Shame though as I could have done with a Bamford goal for my failing fantasy football team ?

We competed for the top 10 before Brute arrived and since then he's been given £100m to improve the team. I'm not having it that 4th bottom is our rightful position. The sum of our parts on the pitch is better than 17th. They've proven that. As I said Rafa was a different level. Most okay Premier League managers wouldn't have us competing there normally. Bruce may be terrible still, but he shouldn't judged on how he does compared to Rafa (unless he starts making silly comparisons but that's a different story). He had £100m but £40m was spent on a player the club were desperate to sign for some bizarre reason and was nowhere near that level. Rafa had Rondon and Perez - may have cost next to nothing but we definitely had more goals in that team on paper. We can talk about how we're doing compared to under Rafa and how much money Bruce has had, but is our squad really better than those of Fulham, Brighton, Crystal Palace, Burnley, Southampton, Aston Villa etc? I'd only say Burnley out of those and Fulham, Palace and Brighton are a similar level through having more depth than us. Take away ASM and Wilson for large parts of the season as stated and we have very poor alternatives as well as the poor players in our starting line-up. Rafa didn't have these 2 players at his disposal either. Bruce has had Wilson for the majority and ASM for some of the season. Rafa was also adamant he didn't want Joelinton whereas Bruce seemed more than happy to have him. Sure, but Rafa was pretty much an exception. That squad he had should have been in a relegation battle all season, so finishing 10th was ridiculously good. Of course Bruce would get nowhere Rafa's achievements (over longer term anyway), but then neither would most other managers with this squad.

:yikes: :yikes: Yeah. I mean in terms of position. 17th with ASM missing a while and if we go down it will be because Wilson was absent and no one else up front is very good. Even with them in the squad I don't think we are much better on paper, if at all, than the teams around us. As I said it's more the way we've got points that has annoyed me, but most Premier League managers wouldn't have us doing much better with this squad imo in terms of points. The better ones would be less reliant on some ASM magic / Wilson penalties / keeper heroics though.

You're right, but they are definitely better than Joelinton. I appreciate Bruce did have money spent on ASM and Wilson though, who are genuinely good, but take them at least one of them out the side as we will have done for half the season and the difference is pretty striking. I'd rather not spend too much time defending Bruce because he's terrible, but under most Premier League managers given the injuries we've had, I wouldn't expect us to do much better. More the way we have got the points that has pissed me off.

Therein lies another problem. We shouldn't have to factor in that our best players might miss significant chunks of the season. Admittedly ASM was done in with Covid but both last season and this, he's suffered non-impact injuries. It's not an impact injury that's put Wilson out either. The way butter boy talks, it's like injuries have to be accepted, taken on the chin (one of many) and there's no way of reducing the risk - which isn't the case at all. I do agree with you, but along with Almiron they are so far ahead of the rest going forward that we just don't have adequate replacements. I know some of the other lower teams are heavily reliant on one or two players, but they clearly have a bit more depth for when they're missing. Miss our star players and you're talking the likes of Ritchie, Joelinton, Gayle, Carroll and Murphy coming in.