Fantail Breeze

I think a murder conviction is quite possible in this incident from what I’ve heard so far. An officer will know from training that a kick to the head is likely to cause serious injury. That’ll form a lot of the prosecutions argument, it’s difficult to say you don’t intend to cause injury when carrying that act out. Although it’s massively complicated by the fact Dalian had a number of health conditions and the use of the taser. I don’t know if the pathologist has identified a single cause of death. If it’s the kicks to the head, I think it’d have a good chance at conviction. If not or the cause is unclear, I agree it’ll probably end up being manslaughter.

It’s worth noting the aim is rarely to ‘shoot someone dead’ but they are trained to use the minimum force required to achieve the objective. In this example, they’d probably shoot them in the arm to disarm them. The rare situation where people are purposely shot dead is usually terror related where it’s believed they may have a device. I think you’ve been watching too much TV. Every use of force has to be justified. As I’ve said, it’s very different when we’re talking about a trained police officer and member of the public. It’d be easier to justify for a member of the public. You and ED are getting the two entwined and confused.

I give up I’ll await the court example(s) of legal use of kicking people in the head. I’m sure with it being so clear cut, there must be at least one example.

Correct. But would it be more proportionate and reasonable to run in and rugby tackle him off of her in order to disarm him? Or, could you use your baton to strike the arm holding the knife to disarm him? Two acts which would protect her life without the need to put his life at a serious risk. As I’ve pointed out, only the minimum level of force required to achieve the objective is lawful. This is where your argument falls down, every time. The sheer arrogance of you thinking you are right is the worst part You’re speaking so confidently but so wrongly. You have no knowledge of this area apart from your own ignorance and Google searches. Many people have now told you that you are wrong, including someone who has vast experience in the training and practical work.

No. There are several more proportionate acts to take before you boot someone in the head ‘with every ounce of strength you can muster’. Your own example is telling me you are using excessive force. https://www.app.college.police.uk/app-content/public-order/core-principles-and-legislation/police-use-of-force/ Might be worthwhile for you to get a better understanding of what is ‘reasonable’.

I’m still waiting for you to give me a (realistic) scenario where you can justify it.

If that is the case, you may learn some very harsh life lessons. As the prosecution summed up in this case: “Ms Healy said PC Monk was an experienced police officer of 14 years and would have known he risked causing Mr Atkinson "really serious injury" by kicking him in the head.” A kick is very different to a punch, which you could easily argue is reasonable and self-defence. Love it at 24 years old with no experience other than using Google, you think you are an expert.

@ED209please give up, you are wrong

#wait rumbles on...

Would never get tired of seeing Neymar fail. Pathetic little tosser. PSG are such a team of dislikable players.

Man Utd aren’t for sale though, are they?

Why do I get drawn into these? Guaranteed to lose now I lump on.

Just as an aside, I’m not a serving officer any more Although it wasn’t all that long ago that I was. Before I start getting pelters on here.

Feel free the quote the legislation where I’m wrong rather than just Googling the names.

Not wrong at all. I’ll be intrigued to hear the defence. Not had a chance to read up on this much but will be following it closely.

Yes, multiple times through my experience of working as a police officer. Having had plenty of training on ‘force’ and how to apply it lawfully, in addition to being part of many prosecutions for it. But sorry, you clearly know much more than me. Your first paragraph is very wrong.

Hitting them on the head with a baton would be difficult to prove proportionate. Why would the officer not hit them on the hand/arm that was holding the knife? The head is further away.

Of course they could shoot someone in that circumstance (assuming they are trained, of course). But that’s entirely different to kicking someone in the head, which is a force that is very very unlikely to ever need to be used for the reasons I’ve pointed out.

Years of experience. What about you?

I have no idea what I’m talking about Okay. If someone was going to stab you with a large knife, how would you kick them in the head? Unless we want to be ridiculous and throw a karate champion into this wild scenario. Don’t be pedantic and upset if you’ve misinterpreted something

‘No situation’ in this specific incident between police officers. My whole post literally talks about police officers, I’m clearly not talking generally. That said, it’d be incredibly hard to prove self defence in any incident where someone is kicked in the head, for similar reasons as I’ve pointed out.

I was talking about this specific incident, quite clearly.

I can tell you now, there isn’t a jury in the world that we see the act of kicking someone in the head as reasonable nor proportionate in the act of a police officer. In order to kick someone in the head, they would either be on the floor or close to it. Therefore it’s unlikely they would be posing a significant threat to life at the point. Police are also unable to use their baton on someone’s head, for good reason, which is why a kick to the head will be seen in a similar way.

Great move for him and Roma. Hope he does well.

I get what you’re saying but there is no situation where kicking someone in the head is deemed lawful force. The taser, yeah, but there’s no approved techniques for kicking people in the head. I assume their defence will be his thrashing around caused contact with boots, which will be a poor/weak defence.