Allardyce simply isn't brave enough and is too obsessed with his platform.

[Parky]

Parky you've narf changed your tune mate. I'd hate to see you being interrogated. They'd just have to show you a poor game of football and you'd crack, spilling the beans and declaring you never liked the bastards anyway. Traitor.

 

 

He still has my full support.

 

But when he fucks up he'll have to deal with me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Count yersel luck I'm letting it out in here and not on the front page. :parky:

 

Parky, these things are nowt man, and deep down you know it. If after a year in the job and we're still playing like that, and these issues are not resolved then fair enough but this is the 5th game of a whole new era that will take at least 3 years to come to light.

 

He's generally doing the right things and everyone can see that.  I use the word generally on purpose.

 

But I'm also beginning to see a one or two things he's over obsessed with. We are moving forward and the squad is stronger.

 

It will take time to get the full malak into these players heads and again I appreaciate that. But I want to see more swords and less clubs in the way we play and support each other.

[Baggio]

Rebuilding the back room staff or buying a fridge the players have to stand in after training has nowt to do with bad tactics, visionless buys and rotten performances....

 

Well said, Parky.

[Guest Knightrider]

Parky you've narf changed your tune mate. I'd hate to see you being interrogated. They'd just have to show you a poor game of football and you'd crack, spilling the beans and declaring you never liked the bastards anyway. Traitor.

 

 

He still has my full support.

 

But when he fucks up he'll have to deal with me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Count yersel luck I'm letting it out in here and not on the front page. :parky:

 

Parky, these things are nowt man, and deep down you know it. If after a year in the job and we're still playing like that, and these issues are not resolved then fair enough but this is the 5th game of a whole new era that will take at least 3 years to come to light.

 

He's generally doing the right things and everyone can see that.  I use the word generally on purpose.

 

But I'm also beginning to see a one or two things he's over obsessed with. We are moving forward and the squad is stronger.

 

It will take time to get the full malak into these players heads and again I appreaciate that. But I want to see more swords and less clubs in the way we play and support each other.

 

There is method to the madness though Parky. I mean we are all worried because we lack creativity and width yet anyone who ever watched Bolton will tell you they played with plenty of width, pace and created chances by the bucket load, even against the stronger sides. Now I don't mean to use Bolton as some kind of crystal ball, but if Big Sam is one thing it's transparent where his tactics and methods are concerned. He has nailed his colors to the mast over pace width, power and creativity time and time again and only a few months back after joining us talked about these things. We will get those missing elements in our team and our game, but they won't come before the reversal of the decade plus reputation that we can't defend and are easy to play against, a reputation that is fully justified because we can't and are as the Derby game bore witness to. He will drill and drill that team and every single player until their heads hurt to be able to keep clean sheets, home and away, to see out games and to gain strength from this in order to then go forward, to create the chances, to score the goals, to win the games. He's a stages manager, he works in stages and then works on bringing them altogether.

 

In a job like this at a club like Newcastle you can't throw caution to the wind or try to do it all in one swoop,  you have to start from somewhere and build and then tinker, to keep refining it, until you get that balance, that winning combination. KK did it, Bobby did, the failures, didn't.

 

Don't get me wrong, that lineup, our tactics, our football, they do nowt for me, but I know exactly what's being done, why and where it will all lead to and that's a solid, consistent and winning Newcastle United.

 

We have to trust him and have faith, he knows what he's doing, what he wants and where he wants us to go and with some luck and time, he'll achieve it. There is nothing in his CV or within the man's own skills set and character to suggest otherwise.

 

I know exactly what's the problem here, we've been so beaten down by crap and failure and broken promises, we panic whenever any sign of past crap crops up like negative football, dodgy lineups, piss poor performances or sore losses, and then automatically fear the worst. Well stop yourselves there because this is no Souness or Roeder. This is a highly qualified man with the knowledge, skills and balls to make things work.

 

I guarantee if we all allow him to do his job as he sees fit, he will succeed.

 

If we panic and allow tension to grow, to creep into every little crack, he will fail.

 

And I'd class that as a disaster. This is what I fear the most, not bad football, negative tactics or defeats away to Derby.

 

We have an important part to play, like at no other club we as fans can set the tone, for better or worse. Make no bones about that. If we turn, the whole axis of the club does too.

 

We pretty much have to trust him implicitly, even when our senses are saying "hold on", that's the type of relationship needed, the one KK enjoyed and SBR did before it turned sour. It's that type of club.

 

It's that type of job.

 

We are that type of fan.

 

All or nothing?

[TRon]

 

 

Not sure I buy all of that HTT. It's one thing having a preferred method, but you have to work with what you've got as well. Neither Amoebi or Viduka are particularly good in the air so I don't really see how Allardyce plans to use them as big target men, at least while the ball is being lauched high from the back.

 

Yes we need to have a long term view, in the meantime though, are we using what assets we have to their best abilities right now? I don't think so. 

[johnnypd]

^well summed up big tron.

 

having the long term plan and implementing new ideas over time doesn't excuse bizarre tactics and selection or uninspired football in the short term. i don't see how playing with three defensive midfielders and an out of position winger, or selecting ameobi as targetman, or making a hash of the back four, fits into any sort of grand scheme.

 

as for having to correct newcastle's defensive failings, didn't we concede less goals than bolton last season? despite the fact that bolton's individual defenders were better than ours, and the fact that their overall side had a more defensive set up. as a team i thought we defended well as a unit last season, and the main problem was not having good enough individuals making up that unit. the likes of carr, babayaro, ramage, huntington, bramble, onyewu and moore are all poor premiership players, some would even be poor in the championship. this can, and perhaps has, been addressed by personnel changes, not by crippling the side of what little attacking impetus it once had, stripping it of pace and guile. if anything our biggest prob last season was attacking, both having strikers to put away chances (rectified with owen and viduka) and lacking players to create those chances in the first place (seemingly not addressed).

 

i'm not anti-allardyce and i agree that many of his more radical ideas will need time to be introduced to the players, and to get his set-up fully running will take the best part of a year. long term i think he will put us in a better position than we were in when he arrived, no doubt. but i don't think some of the current failings can be written off with this excuse as they are seemingly unrelated.

[Guest Knightrider]

 

 

Not sure I buy all of that HTT. It's one thing having a preferred method, but you have to work with what you've got as well. Neither Amoebi or Viduka are particularly good in the air so I don't really see how Allardyce plans to use them as big target men, at least while the ball is being lauched high from the back.

 

Yes we need to have a long term view, in the meantime though, are we using what assets we have to their best abilities right now? I don't think so. 

 

I agree and we aren't, but remember, this is a getting to know you period for the manager and indeed the players. Trial and error if you like. Remember the draw with Villa? The manager said those 0-0s will lead to 1-0 wins. We achieved that against Wigan.

 

When the manager said clean slate for everyone, I believe him. Those that are up to scratch will be used, those who aren't, will be discarded. He's gotten a few of his own players in, but he's making his mind up regarding the rest in my opinion and is experimenting quite a bit at the moment. I don't even think Owen is safe, or Martins, our two best forwards and most expensive players.

 

When he brought on Feye and Beye the other night, I knew then that he's using these games as fact finding missions, even at the expense of results or rather wins. It's as if he was saying right, this game is beyond us or a draw will do, how can I benefit further, I'll bed my two new boys in. Even though the last thing our performance needed was defensive minds. He's always planning ahead and these games will tell him an awful lot.

 

Remember, just because we are seeing that Ameobi and Owen didn't work, or the big man and little man isn't, he has to give these things more than a one off chance to be fully satisfied one way or the other in order to press ahead with getting an XI down on paper and how to get them playing, for good.

[Parky]

^well summed up big tron.

 

having the long term plan and implementing new ideas over time doesn't excuse bizarre tactics and selection or uninspired football in the short term. i don't see how playing with three defensive midfielders and an out of position winger, or selecting ameobi as targetman, or making a hash of the back four, fits into any sort of grand scheme.

 

as for having to correct newcastle's defensive failings, didn't we concede less goals than bolton last season? despite the fact that bolton's individual defenders were better than ours, and the fact that their overall side had a more defensive set up. as a team i thought we defended well as a unit last season, and the main problem was not having good enough individuals making up that unit. the likes of carr, babayaro, ramage, huntington, bramble, onyewu and moore are all poor premiership players, some would even be poor in the championship. this can, and perhaps has, been addressed by personnel changes, not by crippling the side of what little attacking impetus it once had, stripping it of pace and guile. if anything our biggest prob last season was attacking, both having strikers to put away chances (rectified with owen and viduka) and lacking players to create those chances in the first place (seemingly not addressed).

 

i'm not anti-allardyce and i agree that many of his more radical ideas will need time to be introduced to the players, and to get his set-up fully running will take the best part of a year. long term i think he will put us in a better position than we were in when he arrived, no doubt. but i don't think some of the current failings can be written off with this excuse as they are seemingly unrelated.

 

This would have made a good op post for this thread pd.

[bulivye]

so, how much anger & frustration is really b/c SA did what he did (tactics, subs, etc) against derby, and not b/c it was DERBY?  i think many in the team and amongst the fans were looking past this match having already mentally tallied it as a win.   

and will it make it feel better if we do the double over s'land?

[TRon]

 

 

Not sure I buy all of that HTT. It's one thing having a preferred method, but you have to work with what you've got as well. Neither Amoebi or Viduka are particularly good in the air so I don't really see how Allardyce plans to use them as big target men, at least while the ball is being lauched high from the back.

 

Yes we need to have a long term view, in the meantime though, are we using what assets we have to their best abilities right now? I don't think so. 

 

I agree and we aren't, but remember, this is a getting to know you period for the manager and indeed the players. Trial and error if you like. Remember the draw with Villa? The manager said those 0-0s will lead to 1-0 wins. We achieved that against Wigan.

 

When the manager said clean slate for everyone, I believe him. Those that are up to scratch will be used, those who aren't, will be discarded. He's gotten a few of his own players in, but he's making his mind up regarding the rest in my opinion and is experimenting quite a bit at the moment. I don't even think Owen is safe, or Martins, our two best forwards and most expensive players.

 

When he brought on Feye and Beye the other night, I knew then that he's using these games as fact finding missions, even at the expense of results or rather wins. It's as if he was saying right, this game is beyond us or a draw will do, how can I benefit further, I'll bed my two new boys in.Even though the last thing our performance needed was defensive minds. He's always planning ahead and these games will tell him an awful lot.

 

 

 

Well Big Sam giving up the fight sounds perverse to me. I was thinking right till the last 5 minutes if we can get one goal, we'll win this match, Derby are shite and will captulate given half a chance. Derby are a side who will taste defeat again and again this season. If Big Sam gave up the ghost as early as you seem to think then I'm disappointed.

 

 

[ChezGiven]

^well summed up big tron.

 

having the long term plan and implementing new ideas over time doesn't excuse bizarre tactics and selection or uninspired football in the short term. i don't see how playing with three defensive midfielders and an out of position winger, or selecting ameobi as targetman, or making a hash of the back four, fits into any sort of grand scheme.

 

as for having to correct newcastle's defensive failings, didn't we concede less goals than bolton last season? despite the fact that bolton's individual defenders were better than ours, and the fact that their overall side had a more defensive set up. as a team i thought we defended well as a unit last season, and the main problem was not having good enough individuals making up that unit. the likes of carr, babayaro, ramage, huntington, bramble, onyewu and moore are all poor premiership players, some would even be poor in the championship. this can, and perhaps has, been addressed by personnel changes, not by crippling the side of what little attacking impetus it once had, stripping it of pace and guile. if anything our biggest prob last season was attacking, both having strikers to put away chances (rectified with owen and viduka) and lacking players to create those chances in the first place (seemingly not addressed).

 

i'm not anti-allardyce and i agree that many of his more radical ideas will need time to be introduced to the players, and to get his set-up fully running will take the best part of a year. long term i think he will put us in a better position than we were in when he arrived, no doubt. but i don't think some of the current failings can be written off with this excuse as they are seemingly unrelated.

 

This would have made a good op post for this thread pd.

 

The problem is the midfield without a doubt. You're blatantly narked as he didnt buy a playmaker though  :parky:

[Superior Acuña]

As i said in an other thread, people are so nostalgic.  We had all this crap with bobby too, and the likes of manunited have lost to relegated teams (liverpool v sunderland when they only got 19pts)

[Parky]

No one in this thread is talking about the Deby game in isolation. The concern is the overall lack of creativity/cogent play over the last 6 games.

[Guest Elan]

Sack him before it's too late

[Baggio]

Sack him before it's too late

 

I don't think anyone has said he should just be sacked (unless it's for Mourinho )

 

People are pointing out how shite we've played so far this season, even though we've had one of the easiest starts out of any team in the Premiership.

 

No pace, no penetration, bizarre team selections, Alan Smith, Long ball football etc.

[Guest Elan]

Sack him before it's too late

 

I don't think anyone has said he should just be sacked (unless it's for Mourinho )

 

People are pointing out how s**** we've played so far this season, even though we've had one of the easiest starts out of any team in the Premiership.

 

No pace, no penetration, bizarre team selections, Alan Smith, Long ball football etc.

 

It won't get any better, get rid now

[olliemort]

Sack him before it's too late

 

I don't think anyone has said he should just be sacked (unless it's for Mourinho )

 

People are pointing out how s**** we've played so far this season, even though we've had one of the easiest starts out of any team in the Premiership.

 

No pace, no penetration, bizarre team selections, Alan Smith, Long ball football etc.

 

 

It won't get any better, get rid now

 

How the fuck could you know after 6 fucking games FFS!

[Lenny]

Just having a look over this thread and the shortsighted-ness of some of the comments is just unfucking believable. Commenting on the back of a win I admit is the easy thing to do but regardless of that, although people say that they are willing to give the manager a chance, this just shows a lot of people really aren't. There ain't gonna be a quick fix, the shit results will pop up on occassion, but the difference is that we'll probably learn from them this time around as everyone gets to know each other. Coach HTT's thread on the marking of Ashton highlighted a very good point that shows we are identifying problems and adapting to suit. Allardyces analysis is that in-depth that most errors in our play will not go un-noticed and we will learn from them. In my opinion, Im optimistic that I'll be reasonably satisfied come the end of the season.

 

For people to be going on about floggin' two talented 21 year olds that are only going to get better and getting rid of a proven quality manager after just 6 games (who has made our best start to a season in years, without really getting any decent performances out of the team as of yet) is just absolute bollocks!

[Guest alex]

Parky will now claim he was playing Devil's advocate

[Elliottman]

Just having a look over this thread and the shortsighted-ness of some of the comments is just unfucking believable. Commenting on the back of a win I admit is the easy thing to do but regardless of that, although people say that they are willing to give the manager a chance, this just shows a lot of people really aren't. There ain't gonna be a quick fix, the s*** results will pop up on occassion, but the difference is that we'll probably learn from them this time around as everyone gets to know each other. Coach HTT's thread on the marking of Ashton highlighted a very good point that shows we are identifying problems and adapting to suit. Allardyces analysis is that in-depth that most errors in our play will not go un-noticed and we will learn from them. In my opinion, Im optimistic that I'll be reasonably satisfied come the end of the season.

 

For people to be going on about floggin' two talented 21 year olds that are only going to get better and getting rid of a proven quality manager after just 6 games (who has made our best start to a season in years, without really getting any decent performances out of the team as of yet) is just absolute bollocks!

 

aye, ive been reading the comments in total astonishment. I dont know if some of the people who say these things are kids, tards or have just not watched the last 3 years of Newcastle United?

[Parky]

Just having a look over this thread and the shortsighted-ness of some of the comments is just unfucking believable. Commenting on the back of a win I admit is the easy thing to do but regardless of that, although people say that they are willing to give the manager a chance, this just shows a lot of people really aren't. There ain't gonna be a quick fix, the shit results will pop up on occassion, but the difference is that we'll probably learn from them this time around as everyone gets to know each other. Coach HTT's thread on the marking of Ashton highlighted a very good point that shows we are identifying problems and adapting to suit. Allardyces analysis is that in-depth that most errors in our play will not go un-noticed and we will learn from them. In my opinion, Im optimistic that I'll be reasonably satisfied come the end of the season.

 

For people to be going on about floggin' two talented 21 year olds that are only going to get better and getting rid of a proven quality manager after just 6 games (who has made our best start to a season in years, without really getting any decent performances out of the team as of yet) is just absolute bollocks!

 

I'm fully behind Allardyce and reiterated it in many posts in this thread.

 

Also I'm pretty sure the Allardyce out comments are tongue in cheek.

 

Coach Htt's point of attacking the second ball rather than the first and dropping off Ashton might be groundbreaking news to you dear but it is nuts and bolts management.

 

The concerns in this thread still stand, however I'm over the moon with the WH result.....Difficult games coming up.

[Guest battyleespeed]

You guys are getting too worked out about this and picking out things like lack of creativity just for excuse to keep on critising... I like how CoachHTT sees the positive things before most or at least has mentality to think positively. For me the team before Sam was no doubt heading towards relegation but Sam identified all the problems and addressed them effectively during the summer. From what I've seen this summer he has strategy in place to build solid team and he is following his game plan. I think he is already halfway there as there is balance to the team that just hasn't been there before and he has signed great team players without spending much. Granted it is not perfect yet and tonight will be good test against one of the big teams but he has already built the PLATFORM for great team.

 

Back four ... More than sorted out. We have now composed defenders whose presence and confidence is spreading across the team. How many managers before him were clueless to sort this out? After all it was not about the money.

 

Midfield ... Very happy with likes of Smith, Geremi and Barton. These guys are not the most flashy players on the ball but they won't complain and fight for every ball. Their mentality and playing style will spread to other players as well and that alone will win us games that we would lose with less determined players.

 

Forwards ... Although we have already some good players Sam will probably address this area in next summer when he has more funds available. Obviously his first priority was defence and ball winning midfielders which was relief to see after all the crazy spending to big name forwards and wide players.

 

Tactics ... I think Sam is right to adopt the cautious approach even against teams that we are expected to beat easily because it is still early days. His formations and player choices resemble Souness's in a way he is putting hard craft before creativity but we seem to be way more better organized and combatitive than during those days. I like that he seems to find the problems quickly and fix them unlike the others before him who would go on and on afraid to make changes. I wouldn't expect any less from a guy who is obsessed with analysis and sports science. I imagine that the first and most hardest part about tactics was identifying the players who werent up to the task and replacing them with new players that fitted the overall strategy.

 

It's good to be looking for European qualification rather than be afraid of relegation. Probably there won't be many good results against the big teams but I would give Sam at least this season before start judging if he can actually challenge likes of Chelsea, Liverpool, etc.

[Parky]

You guys are getting too worked out about this and picking out things like lack of creativity just for excuse to keep on critising... I like how CoachHTT sees the positive things before most or at least has mentality to think positively. For me the team before Sam was no doubt heading towards relegation but Sam identified all the problems and addressed them effectively during the summer. From what I've seen this summer he has strategy in place to build solid team and he is following his game plan. I think he is already halfway there as there is balance to the team that just hasn't been there before and he has signed great team players without spending much. Granted it is not perfect yet and tonight will be good test against one of the big teams but he has already built the PLATFORM for great team.

 

Back four - More than sorted out. We have now composed defenders whose presence and confidence is spreading across the team. How many managers before him were clueless to sort this out? After all it was not about the money.

 

Midfield - Very happy with likes of Smith, Geremi and Barton. These guys are not the most flashy players on the ball but they don't complain and fight for every ball. Their mentality and playing style will spread to other players as well and that alone will win us games that we might lose with less determined players.

 

Forwards - Although we have already some good players Sam will probably address this area in next summer when he has more funds available. Obviously his first priority was defence and ball winning midfielders which was relief to see after all the crazy spending to big name forwards and wide players.

 

Tactics - I think Sam is focusing on making us hard to beat and everything else will follow after that has been achieved. He is putting his focus (and resources) to critical areas which is a good thing. I like that he seems to find the problems quickly and fix them unlike the others before him who would go on and on afraid to make changes.

 

It's good to be looking for European qualification rather than be afraid of relegation. Probably there won't be many good results against the big teams but I would give Sam at least this season before start judging if he can actually challenge likes of Chelsea, Liverpool, etc.

 

This season isn't about challenging Chelsea and Liverpool it is keeping up with Man City, Villa, Spurs and Everton.

[Geordie Boot Boy]

Spurs?  I'm not too worried about Spurs this year.

 

I think they're probably finding out this year, like we did, that building a side full of young english players is not all it's cracked up to be.

[Dave]

Spurs will recover, sadly.

[Guest Knightrider]

People also forget that creativity can only come from understanding. Going by logic on here all we have to do to fix our creative problems is to buy a playmaker. Sorry but that's the same flawed logic that the likes of Souness et al applied to problems, namely the defence. Lets spend £8m on a French international - that will shore up the back-four. Doesn't work like that though.

 

When the team are fully tuned in to one another's games and the manager's methods and vice versa, we will see in increase in creativity regardless of whether we deploy a specialist playmaker or not. That can only come with time and more importantly games, however, something many in this thread don't seem to have any comprehension of with there "I want it all and I want it now" mindset, one that is indicative of the modern day fan.

 

The team that faced West Ham was basically a new team. The entire back-four and 'keeper have never played together before this season, neither had the midfield or the attack. Same against Derby.

 

How anyone can expect such a new team to hit the ground running and win convincingly in style home and away, is beyond me. It defies the laws of football.

 

In an age where we all have access to various data, lots of different types of football on offer and expert opinion and analysis almost on tap, fans today are probably the least clued up of any generation and this thread highlights that perfectly.

 

IMO of course, he says knowing how sensitive some people are...