thomas Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 -- stats -- Quality of opposition please. List of teams played against and in what competitions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UV Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 -- stats -- Quality of opposition please. List of teams played against and in what competitions. League only. I've highlighted the games against last season's top 5 for you. Steve Harper Games played by Steve Harper in 2006/2007 Goals 17-09-2006 English Premier West Ham 0-2 Newcastle 0 20-09-2006 English Premier Liverpool 2-0 Newcastle 0 24-09-2006 English Premier Newcastle 1-1 Everton 0 01-10-2006 English Premier Man Utd 2-0 Newcastle 0 15-10-2006 English Premier Newcastle 1-2 Bolton 0 22-10-2006 English Premier Middlesbro 1-0 Newcastle 0 28-10-2006 English Premier Newcastle 0-0 Charlton 0 04-11-2006 English Premier Newcastle 0-1 Sheff Utd 0 11-11-2006 English Premier Man City 0-0 Newcastle 0 20-01-2007 English Premier Newcastle 2-2 West Ham 0 31-01-2007 English Premier Newcastle 3-1 Aston Villa 0 03-02-2007 English Premier Fulham 2-1 Newcastle 0 10-02-2007 English Premier Newcastle 2-1 Liverpool 0 09-04-2007 English Premier Newcastle 0-0 Arsenal 0 14-04-2007 English Premier Portsmouth 2-1 Newcastle 0 22-04-2007 English Premier Newcastle 0-0 Chelsea 0 30-04-2007 English Premier Reading 1-0 Newcastle 0 05-05-2007 English Premier Newcastle 0-2 Blackburn 0 Seamus Given 19-08-2006 English Premier Newcastle 2-1 Wigan 0 27-08-2006 English Premier Aston Villa 2-0 Newcastle 0 09-09-2006 English Premier Newcastle 1-2 Fulham 0 17-09-2006 English Premier West Ham 0-2 Newcastle 0 18-11-2006 English Premier Arsenal 1-1 Newcastle 0 26-11-2006 English Premier Newcastle 1-0 Portsmouth 0 06-12-2006 English Premier Newcastle 3-2 Reading 0 09-12-2006 English Premier Blackburn 1-3 Newcastle 0 13-12-2006 English Premier Chelsea 1-0 Newcastle 0 16-12-2006 English Premier Newcastle 2-1 Watford 0 23-12-2006 English Premier Newcastle 3-1 Tottenham 0 30-12-2006 English Premier Everton 3-0 Newcastle 0 01-01-2007 English Premier Newcastle 2-2 Man Utd 0 14-01-2007 English Premier Tottenham 2-3 Newcastle 0 20-01-2007 English Premier Newcastle 2-2 West Ham 0 25-02-2007 English Premier Wigan 1-0 Newcastle 0 03-03-2007 English Premier Newcastle 0-0 Middlesbro 0 18-03-2007 English Premier Charlton 2-0 Newcastle 0 31-03-2007 English Premier Newcastle 0-1 Man City 0 07-04-2007 English Premier Sheff Utd 1-2 Newcastle 0 09-04-2007 English Premier Newcastle 0-0 Arsenal 0 13-05-2007 English Premier Watford 1-1 Newcastle 0 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gash Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 A bit off topic here, but just read something that said Arsene Wenger would not sign Shay Given because he is too short, this was said by Bob Wilson doing a legends tour of highbury Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSG Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 A bit off topic here, but just read something that said Arsene Wenger would not sign Shay Given because he is too short, this was said by Bob Wilson doing a legends tour of highbury 6' 1" IIRC. Hardly short. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest justin99. Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 Some have mentioned Shay lacks communication with the defence. I don't know how you can say that without being on the pitch and listening to what he says throughout a game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 Some have mentioned Shay lacks communication with the defence. I don't know how you can say that without being on the pitch and listening to what he says throughout a game. Unless he's training to become a ventriloquist, he's not communicating as his lips don't move. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest justin99. Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 What the whole 90mins? Plus how can you communicate with your defence if their stupidly playing an offside side 5metres off half-way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 What the whole 90mins? Plus how can you communicate with your defence if their stupidly playing an offside side 5metres off half-way. It can't be easy for anybody communicating during a football match, even these days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keefaz Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 The whole communication thing's bollocks. Schmeichel admitted that no one could ever understand what he was shouting during matches. You can urge them to push up but not much else, tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmelads Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 The whole communication thing's bollocks. Schmeichel admitted that no one could ever understand what he was shouting during matches. You can urge them to push up but not much else, tbh. Watch Chelsea and Terry is doing all the organising, not Cech. Carragher organises Liverpool's defence, not Reina. That's what we need. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 Stats are complete bollocks when used to rate goalkeepers IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 Stats are complete bollocks when used to rate goalkeepers IMO. Stats are complete bollocks when used to rate footballers IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gash Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 A bit off topic here, but just read something that said Arsene Wenger would not sign Shay Given because he is too short, this was said by Bob Wilson doing a legends tour of highbury 6' 1" IIRC. Hardly short. I agree, especially as a 5 foot +er had a medical at the club at the beginning of last season (Viera) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Stats are complete bollocks when used to rate goalkeepers IMO. Stats are complete bollocks when used to rate footballers IMO. Particularly those ones Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest optimistic nit Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 -- stats -- Quality of opposition please. List of teams played against and in what competitions. League only. I've highlighted the games against last season's top 5 for you. Steve Harper Games played by Steve Harper in 2006/2007 Goals 17-09-2006 English Premier West Ham 0-2 Newcastle 0 20-09-2006 English Premier Liverpool 2-0 Newcastle 0 24-09-2006 English Premier Newcastle 1-1 Everton 0 01-10-2006 English Premier Man Utd 2-0 Newcastle 0 15-10-2006 English Premier Newcastle 1-2 Bolton 0 22-10-2006 English Premier Middlesbro 1-0 Newcastle 0 28-10-2006 English Premier Newcastle 0-0 Charlton 0 04-11-2006 English Premier Newcastle 0-1 Sheff Utd 0 11-11-2006 English Premier Man City 0-0 Newcastle 0 20-01-2007 English Premier Newcastle 2-2 West Ham 0 31-01-2007 English Premier Newcastle 3-1 Aston Villa 0 03-02-2007 English Premier Fulham 2-1 Newcastle 0 10-02-2007 English Premier Newcastle 2-1 Liverpool 0 09-04-2007 English Premier Newcastle 0-0 Arsenal 0 14-04-2007 English Premier Portsmouth 2-1 Newcastle 0 22-04-2007 English Premier Newcastle 0-0 Chelsea 0 30-04-2007 English Premier Reading 1-0 Newcastle 0 05-05-2007 English Premier Newcastle 0-2 Blackburn 0 Seamus Given 19-08-2006 English Premier Newcastle 2-1 Wigan 0 27-08-2006 English Premier Aston Villa 2-0 Newcastle 0 09-09-2006 English Premier Newcastle 1-2 Fulham 0 17-09-2006 English Premier West Ham 0-2 Newcastle 0 18-11-2006 English Premier Arsenal 1-1 Newcastle 0 26-11-2006 English Premier Newcastle 1-0 Portsmouth 0 06-12-2006 English Premier Newcastle 3-2 Reading 0 09-12-2006 English Premier Blackburn 1-3 Newcastle 0 13-12-2006 English Premier Chelsea 1-0 Newcastle 0 16-12-2006 English Premier Newcastle 2-1 Watford 0 23-12-2006 English Premier Newcastle 3-1 Tottenham 0 30-12-2006 English Premier Everton 3-0 Newcastle 0 01-01-2007 English Premier Newcastle 2-2 Man Utd 0 14-01-2007 English Premier Tottenham 2-3 Newcastle 0 20-01-2007 English Premier Newcastle 2-2 West Ham 0 25-02-2007 English Premier Wigan 1-0 Newcastle 0 03-03-2007 English Premier Newcastle 0-0 Middlesbro 0 18-03-2007 English Premier Charlton 2-0 Newcastle 0 31-03-2007 English Premier Newcastle 0-1 Man City 0 07-04-2007 English Premier Sheff Utd 1-2 Newcastle 0 09-04-2007 English Premier Newcastle 0-0 Arsenal 0 13-05-2007 English Premier Watford 1-1 Newcastle 0 you've mistakingly bolded a relegation battler for two of given's games. no goalkeeper should really be stretched by their mickey mouse lineup. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UV Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Stats are complete bollocks when used to rate goalkeepers IMO. Stats are complete bollocks when used to rate footballers IMO. Particularly those ones Given is lauded as a great shot stopper, and this is used to excuse his other failings. Please explain why a stat as raw as number of goals conceded per shots on target is "complete bollocks", especially when comparing 2 goalkeepers in the same team across a number of games with a similar range of opposition. Stats are complete bollocks when used to rate footballers IMO. Someone better tell the manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Are there stats on how close to goal the shot was struck from? The speed of the shot? The angle, the trajectory? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 ENOUGH ALREADY FOR FUCKS SAKE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Harper should not have been dropped until he ran into a bad run of form, which clearly wasn't the case here. I don't think he was to blame for the defeat at Derby, and he had made some great saves in his previous matches. I still reckon he's a more stable prescence than Given, and controls his area better, although Shay is slightly better at shot-stopping. The biggest problem about dropping him is that Sam has sent the wrong message to the rest of the team, i.e. some players are more droppable than others.. I wouldn't blame Harper if he went in January - he has been loyal enough for too long. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UV Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Are there stats on how close to goal the shot was struck from? The speed of the shot? The angle, the trajectory? Probably. I don't have them though. However if I did I guess they'd just be ignored or excused when I produced them anyway. I'm still waiting for a detailed analysis from thomas after I produced the information he asked for. Are you saying that over the course of around 20 games each Harper got all the easy saves to make and Given got all the unstoppable shots? Anyway my main point is to show that the people saying there's such a massive gulf in class between Harper and Given are talking complete bollocks. If Harper were a foreigner we'd have a 100+ page thread crying about unfairly treat he'd been, and any mistakes he did make would be put down to a lack of confidence due to knowing he would get dropped no matter how well he performed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 All i'm saying is that stats are subjective at the best of times, and even more so when talking about goals conceded by a keeper. Either could have easily had more crap shots to save than the other, yes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 I agree Given is a cut above Harper fwiw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 I don't think there was much Shay could have done about any of the goals he has conceded, he is a much better keeper than Harper FACT! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 I don't think there was much Shay could have done about any of the goals he has conceded, he is a much better keeper than Harper FACT! Where's your proof of that particular gem ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Snrub Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 I don't think there was much Shay could have done about any of the goals he has conceded, he is a much better keeper than Harper FACT! Where's your proof of that particular gem ? Having a working pair of eyes is all the proof you need to see that Given is a far superior keeper to Harper. And regarding the whole loyality thing, do you not think if Harper would have got the offer to be first choice keeper at another decent/mid table Premiership team he would have left ages ago, course he would have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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