Not sure why people are in shock. (We must stick with SA).

[brummie]

I can't say that much for O'Neill's record since Celtic, beyond that to a disinterested outsider, he seems to be slightly underachieving with the new, Ellisless Villa.

 

That's very unfair. He's had one season in the job, a season in which he was saddled with someone else's squad, and no chance to spend in the summer window due to the takeover not going through until September.

 

This is the crux of the problem on this subject (SA) - people judge too early. It is pointless judging managers after a year or so, especially not when they take over fucked up clubs. You've got to give them time. How much you give SA is debatable, but I'd have thought two years is a decent time frame for a manager to start to show some real, sustainable progress.

 

This place would've gone into meltdown had he run a transfer window in the way he did this Summer up here.

 

This is fair comment. In fact, thinking back to it brings me out in hives. But he's got January to sort the weaknesses. We've had a decent-ish start to the season after a pretty difficult opening set of fixtures (we've played all the top four bar Arsenal who we play in two weeks). If he can see to the deficiencies in the January window, then that's fine.

 

Again, coming back to the premature judging - 11 games in is way, way too early to judge a season.

 

Incidentally:

 

The moment was seized at a critical time, and now half of Britain, certainly its youth, is probably under the impression we've always been a bigger club than Everton and Spurs

 

These days half of Britain doesn't give a flying fuck about anyone who isn't in the "big four", they're not really arsed about who they see as bigger out of Newcastle and Spurs.

[80]

I can't say that much for O'Neill's record since Celtic, beyond that to a disinterested outsider, he seems to be slightly underachieving with the new, Ellisless Villa.

 

That's very unfair. He's had one season in the job, a season in which he was saddled with someone else's squad, and no chance to spend in the summer window due to the takeover not going through until September.

 

This is the crux of the problem on this subject (SA) - people judge too early. It is pointless judging managers after a year or so, especially not when they take over fucked up clubs. You've got to give them time. How much you give SA is debatable, but I'd have thought two years is a decent time frame for a manager to start to show some real, sustainable progress.

 

This place would've gone into meltdown had he run a transfer window in the way he did this Summer up here.

 

This is fair comment. In fact, thinking back to it brings me out in hives. But he's got January to sort the weaknesses. We've had a decent-ish start to the season after a pretty difficult opening set of fixtures (we've played all the top four bar Arsenal who we play in two weeks). If he can see to the deficiencies in the January window, then that's fine.

 

Again, coming back to the premature judging - 11 games in is way, way too early to judge a season.

 

Incidentally:

 

The moment was seized at a critical time, and now half of Britain, certainly its youth, is probably under the impression we've always been a bigger club than Everton and Spurs

 

These days half of Britain doesn't give a flying fuck about anyone who isn't in the "big four", they're not really arsed about who they see as bigger out of Newcastle and Spurs.

 

I only said "slightly", I was factoring in the transfer window and added the caveat that I'm not exactly paying a great deal of attention. Regarding the transfer window, for all I know, it might be that the new owner was holding O'Neill up, so I could conceive of it not being a fair point. If he was raring to go, though, then it would look to me that O'Neill had missed a crucial chance to press on - particularly with the likes of Portsmouth and Man City having romped ahead. Things will be clearer for you in a year's time. There was a body of support for the idea that O'Neill is such a good manager that he'd have you snapping around 4th and certainly gunning for a UEFA Cup spot by now, though. Not that I'm saying the sane counted amongst them.

 

I see your point about the "Big 4", but I still think my point is true and important. I'm talking about media portrayal (or what would've been the lack of portrayal), I'm talking about the 10 year olds of 1995 who're now in football and don't think of a move to Newcastle like they would a move to Sunderland. It's not about who we're ahead of so much as it is who we're not behind, basically. Despite not winning anything, NUFC was one of the biggest gainers from the 90s boom (and it took some stupendous feats to nearly squander those gains), whilst the Evertons were some of the biggest losers. It'll be a long long time before they recover their status, they've still an aura of dirty relegation battlers about them. Few outside of Liverpool cares a fuck for Dixie Dean, but there are the Berbatovs who think of Alan Shearer and all that malarkey with us, now. Not necessarily sensible, but there you go.

[merlin]

We'll have to agree to disagree ; judging NUFC as a bigger club than Everton etc is not the yardstick I want to be used - we need to be judged against the likes of Man U Arsenal & Liverpool if we REALLY want to be considered a success.

Also, unlike you, I would choose O'Neill if given the choice of him and Allardyce - also, KK at this point in time.

Using KK's age as a get out for him as a modern manager is not on - both Allardyce & O'Neill are also in their 50s...O'Neill has successfully managed at least 2 clubs apart from his first appt. - Leicester & Celtic(who in fan terms, which is how so many NUFC fans judge a 'big' club, are bigger than us !) ; he won things at both clubs and although you keep mentioning Scotland, he had to compete against some decent European sides to get Celtic to the UEFA Final.

 

He has had a decent if unspectacular start at Villa, but I have been more impressed with their performances than ours this year - compare the relative cost of constructing the 2 sides and you will see that Allardyce had some decent material to work with even though this is his first season.

O'Neill has been luckier with his youngsters(they are clearly better than anything we have in reserve or academy), but he HAS given them a chance and their play is more attractive than ours.

OK, they lost to Man U, and Liverpool at home but these are results that are likely to happen to us ; lets

see what happens by the end of the season....

[Cronky]

I still believe in Allardyce and his ability to take us forward. I think a major problem is that he does firmly believe in a 4-3-3, whereas the strikers in particular that we have are more suited to 4-4-2. That's led to a lot of chopping and changing, and I worry a bit that at the moment Allardyce is moving further away from a settled side, rather than closer.

 

I've reached the conclusion that he has to back his beliefs, no matter who gets dropped in the process. At the moment, we're falling in between two stools.

[brummie]

Regarding the transfer window, for all I know, it might be that the new owner was holding O'Neill up, so I could conceive of it not being a fair point. If he was raring to go, though, then it would look to me that O'Neill had missed a crucial chance to press on - particularly with the likes of Portsmouth and Man City having romped ahead.

 

To be fair, you're making a valid point here, and one that a lot of Villa fans have made.

 

The accepted truth is that in the summer, Lerner made a very large amount of money available (this leaked to one of our boards by the son of a member of the club board), but MON didn't want to spend it, saying that he's not going to spend irresponsibly - he's always had a hang up about big spending.

 

His mantra is that he's building something through youth bolstered by decent spending that'll last for the long term. City's approach is a little different in that, whilst they've got promising young players too, they're spending huge amounts now. Will it work in the short term? Probably. Will it work long term? Possibly not.

 

I'm still jealous, mind

[Parky]

Regarding the transfer window, for all I know, it might be that the new owner was holding O'Neill up, so I could conceive of it not being a fair point. If he was raring to go, though, then it would look to me that O'Neill had missed a crucial chance to press on - particularly with the likes of Portsmouth and Man City having romped ahead.

 

To be fair, you're making a valid point here, and one that a lot of Villa fans have made.

 

The accepted truth is that in the summer, Lerner made a very large amount of money available (this leaked to one of our boards by the son of a member of the club board), but MON didn't want to spend it, saying that he's not going to spend irresponsibly - he's always had a hang up about big spending.

 

His mantra is that he's building something through youth bolstered by decent spending that'll last for the long term. City's approach is a little different in that, whilst they've got promising young players too, they're spending huge amounts now. Will it work in the short term? Probably. Will it work long term? Possibly not.

 

I'm still jealous, mind

 

Sven will be successful at City I have no doubts about it.

[OzzieMandias]

Meanwhile...

 

Chris Mort, the Newcastle chairman, emphasised in The Times this week that Allardyce’s job was secure and the manager pointed out that achieving success could not be instantaneous at a club who have long neglected their foundations. Remedial work is being undertaken at the training ground and academy and as Allardyce said: “I’m not so sure I can wave the magic wand as quickly as they would like here.”

 

The pressure has been unrelenting. “Pressure – you mean the crap I get?” Allardyce said. “The speculative rubbish written to try and stir the s*** and make your life difficult? I understand that, but it is probably more volatile and more unacceptable than I expected. You don’t speculate about someone taking over someone else’s job when you lose two games on the trot.”

 

While positive results are vital, growth will be a long-term process. “I still think it will take three to five years to get this club where I want it to be,” Allardyce said. “And I will get that time if I win football matches. That is the bottom line. Some fans want it to be instant, but it can’t be. Instant is not sustainable. Instant goes to bankruptcy in business and in football, nine times out of ten you fail. But my long-term [future] will only be long-term if I get results. As good as Mike and Chris are, if I don’t get results there’s going to be huge pressure put on them, never mind me. The longevity of my period at this football club will be about making sure I build, or help them build, something from the bottom to the top.

 

“I can only do that by making sure the top is right first, results-wise. After that you put all the stuff in place to make this club fundamentally sound to sustain success, which it has never done for 50 years, apart from brief periods under Kevin Keegan and Sir Bobby Robson. Sustainability is everything you need in the game today. Continuing success doesn’t come about by chance.”

 

Having been dismissed by Blackpool in 1996, Allardyce is reluctant to repeat the experience. “I am what I am – me,” he said. “I’m my own man. I don’t copy people or follow other managers and I must have some talent because you don’t stay in this volatile world for as long as I have without it. I haven’t been sacked since Blackpool and I don’t want to be sacked again. Wherever I’ve been, clubs have been more successful after I took over and I hope that’s going to be the case here."

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/newcastle/article2836096.ece

[Northern Monkey]

Why are people making excuses for Allardyce?

 

We've been turned over this season in games we should have won, not because the opposition has better players than us but because of shocking tactics employed by a manager who's looking further and further out of his depth at a bigger club and the expectations that go with it.

 

Allardyce isn't the man for us and hopefully he'll be replaced at the end of the season with someone better.

 

Way to have faith in a manager who, in one summer, has completely transformed a thoroughly shite squad, and consequently given us our best start to a Premier League season since Keegan! Yeah, he's got some stuff wrong on matchday, but we're a couple of months in man.

 

hahahaahahahahahahahaahaha!!!!!!!!

 

You fell for the best start thing, didn't you. What a crock of shite, just like the manager, just like the majority of the players he has brought it, just like the football he produces.

[Rich]

Amazingly, we've got the same points as we had in 03/04 under Robson after Boxing Day, this has been our best return points wise for 5 seasons.

 

What that doesn't tell you is that we need to play the top four 6 times in our remaining 17 matches and that the football has been atrocious for the most part, though.

[lovejoy]

Amazingly, we've got the same points as we had in 03/04 under Robson after Boxing Day, this has been our best return points wise for 5 seasons.

 

What that doesn't tell you is that we need to play the top four 6 times in our remaining 17 matches and that the football has been atrocious for the most part, though.

 

still a very interesting stat

[Guest neesy111]

but our lowest ever loss total was that season with 8, we only won twice away from home

 

drew almost 20 off our games

 

comparing those 2 seasons is lunacy as we are already at the same number of loesses