Guest ElCid Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I can't believe some on here - he is making the most stupid decision in playing Anita and Colback together and he is getting praised when it is quite blatantly having a detrimental effect on the team in an attacking sense. As long as he plays those two at the same time in the middle of the pitch then no one can really give him any praise for such a basic error. I've been critical of him and will continue to be so. Fwiw I though he got it wrong from the off again yesterday with Colback/Anita and said so before kick off. He should have had Sissoko and Wijnaldum central and pressed them better from the start. We were on the back foot from the off and it was a contributory factor to Mitrovic playing too high and isolated. Won't argue with anything after the sending off though there's little bits that I'd have done differently. Totally agree when we were down to 10 men and I said this on another thread but it's good to see someone else noticed how isolated Mitrovic was and will continue to be until the formation is changed. It's so basic a mistake as I said and is so much a detriment to the team that I can't understand how he can get any praise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 If we'd pressed from the start we'd have been ripped to shreds. They couldn't have been set up better to capitalise on space and if we'd let in the early goal and then had to press on, we'd most likely have been thrashed. Don't think 4-3-3 would've made much difference yesterday, either. They've an excellent midfield, it's not like Sissoko and Wijnaldum are physical enough to compensate either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrymac1966 Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 What a defeatist post that was. West Ham have a different mentality and so have Crystal Palace that's why we will be nearer the bottom once again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 What a defeatist post that was. West Ham have a different mentality and so have Crystal Palace that's why we will be nearer the bottom once again. Even if we are near the bottom, at least we can see our players stringing a few passes together which we've rarely done for the last 4 or 5 years. That isn't much but it's still progress and it's been a while since we're done anything positive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Palace countered the shit out of Chelsea, I imagine that's exactly what we set up to do. And yes they do have a different mentality, but that's for good reason. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 If we'd pressed from the start we'd have been ripped to shreds. They couldn't have been set up better to capitalise on space and if we'd let in the early goal and then had to press on, we'd most likely have been thrashed. Don't think 4-3-3 would've made much difference yesterday, either. They've an excellent midfield, it's not like Sissoko and Wijnaldum are physical enough to compensate either. i said pressed better if this was in reply to my post...colback and anita were sitting way too deep in a team already sitting too deep as it was had the midfield pushed 5-10 yards further up and has sissoko and wijnaldum in there who have the legs to get up and down we might have pushed them back a bit but as it was we invited them on way too much (imo) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I can't believe some on here - he is making the most stupid decision in playing Anita and Colback together and he is getting praised when it is quite blatantly having a detrimental effect on the team in an attacking sense. As long as he plays those two at the same time in the middle of the pitch then no one can really give him any praise for such a basic error. I've been critical of him and will continue to be so. Fwiw I though he got it wrong from the off again yesterday with Colback/Anita and said so before kick off. He should have had Sissoko and Wijnaldum central and pressed them better from the start. We were on the back foot from the off and it was a contributory factor to Mitrovic playing too high and isolated. Won't argue with anything after the sending off though there's little bits that I'd have done differently. Totally agree when we were down to 10 men and I said this on another thread but it's good to see someone else noticed how isolated Mitrovic was and will continue to be until the formation is changed. It's so basic a mistake as I said and is so much a detriment to the team that I can't understand how he can get any praise. should have had colback out and perez in instead looking for the ball in the hole to link better with mitrovic... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ElCid Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I can't believe some on here - he is making the most stupid decision in playing Anita and Colback together and he is getting praised when it is quite blatantly having a detrimental effect on the team in an attacking sense. As long as he plays those two at the same time in the middle of the pitch then no one can really give him any praise for such a basic error. I've been critical of him and will continue to be so. Fwiw I though he got it wrong from the off again yesterday with Colback/Anita and said so before kick off. He should have had Sissoko and Wijnaldum central and pressed them better from the start. We were on the back foot from the off and it was a contributory factor to Mitrovic playing too high and isolated. Won't argue with anything after the sending off though there's little bits that I'd have done differently. Totally agree when we were down to 10 men and I said this on another thread but it's good to see someone else noticed how isolated Mitrovic was and will continue to be until the formation is changed. It's so basic a mistake as I said and is so much a detriment to the team that I can't understand how he can get any praise. should have had colback out and perez in instead looking for the ball in the hole to link better with mitrovic... Again I agree or De Jong - also think we need Aarons or another quality winger to supply consistent quality delivery otherwise you might as well sell Mitrovic now as he will be a total failure without the right quality coming into the box - Sissoko is not a winger and will never be one Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I can't believe some on here - he is making the most stupid decision in playing Anita and Colback together and he is getting praised when it is quite blatantly having a detrimental effect on the team in an attacking sense. As long as he plays those two at the same time in the middle of the pitch then no one can really give him any praise for such a basic error. I've been critical of him and will continue to be so. Fwiw I though he got it wrong from the off again yesterday with Colback/Anita and said so before kick off. He should have had Sissoko and Wijnaldum central and pressed them better from the start. We were on the back foot from the off and it was a contributory factor to Mitrovic playing too high and isolated. Won't argue with anything after the sending off though there's little bits that I'd have done differently. Totally agree when we were down to 10 men and I said this on another thread but it's good to see someone else noticed how isolated Mitrovic was and will continue to be until the formation is changed. It's so basic a mistake as I said and is so much a detriment to the team that I can't understand how he can get any praise. should have had colback out and perez in instead looking for the ball in the hole to link better with mitrovic... Again I agree or De Jong - also think we need Aarons or another quality winger to supply consistent quality delivery otherwise you might as well sell Mitrovic now as he will be a total failure without the right quality coming into the box - Sissoko is not a winger and will never be one aye he'll have his moments there but he needs putting in the middle with wijnaldum and anita immediately...aarons, thauvin and perez to rotate around the wide spots either side of mitrovic and use de jong where we can in the hole yesterday was overly cautious and we paid for it ultimately because mitrovic (needlessly) gave away a good few fouls chasing lost causes due to how isolated he was prior to the sending off, had he been getting any kind of service things might have been very different overall Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themanupstairs Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 We spent the majority of two games against the two best possession teams in the league, with a man down ffs In order to reverse the utter rubbish we'd been served up by al pards in the last few years, SMC needed to get back to basics. Professional attitude on and off the pitch, respect for the fans, better communication, proper coaches and backroom staff, and a solid defensive shape that should become hard to break down. This is a game where the 11 players on the pitch (haha) at any given time need to make collective and individual decisions in split seconds. You can't influence that in 5 minutes. It takes bloody time. It's nowhere near good enough at the moment, but McClaren has earned the chance to show what he wants to do. No one's saying we'll win the league next year or owt. But not seeing encouraging signs from the evidence we've had so far is just being stubborn for the sake of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrymac1966 Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 The non-selection of Aarons gave Arsenal much less to think about. Wenger must have looked at our set up and said one word to his players - attack I can take defeat but sitting deep in 4 games running inviting the opposition on gives an insight into the managers spineless approach. He told us he would excite us - is this the beginning of Pardewesque bullshit because if I hadn't gone midweek I would have missed all of the excitement - even then due to a club cock up didn't get in the ground till 8-05 when the score was already 2-1 Can't understand why the same formation and same team wasn't used except for Williamson of course - I mean I can because we decided to go negative and sit deep it was always a matter of time from the very first minute as against all previous opposition - a disgraceful approach at home and an inviting approach away Mark my words the tone of this thread will be different come March. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ElCid Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I can't believe some on here - he is making the most stupid decision in playing Anita and Colback together and he is getting praised when it is quite blatantly having a detrimental effect on the team in an attacking sense. As long as he plays those two at the same time in the middle of the pitch then no one can really give him any praise for such a basic error. I've been critical of him and will continue to be so. Fwiw I though he got it wrong from the off again yesterday with Colback/Anita and said so before kick off. He should have had Sissoko and Wijnaldum central and pressed them better from the start. We were on the back foot from the off and it was a contributory factor to Mitrovic playing too high and isolated. Won't argue with anything after the sending off though there's little bits that I'd have done differently. Totally agree when we were down to 10 men and I said this on another thread but it's good to see someone else noticed how isolated Mitrovic was and will continue to be until the formation is changed. It's so basic a mistake as I said and is so much a detriment to the team that I can't understand how he can get any praise. should have had colback out and perez in instead looking for the ball in the hole to link better with mitrovic... Again I agree or De Jong - also think we need Aarons or another quality winger to supply consistent quality delivery otherwise you might as well sell Mitrovic now as he will be a total failure without the right quality coming into the box - Sissoko is not a winger and will never be one aye he'll have his moments there but he needs putting in the middle with wijnaldum and anita immediately...aarons, thauvin and perez to rotate around the wide spots either side of mitrovic and use de jong where we can in the hole yesterday was overly cautious and we paid for it ultimately because mitrovic (needlessly) gave away a good few fouls chasing lost causes due to how isolated he was prior to the sending off, had he been getting any kind of service things might have been very different overall Agree again but the worrying thing is that I'm pretty certain that McClaren will not change it and that's why I just don't get the praise by some on here - if Pardew done the same (and he did many of time) he would of got slated and rightly so and I at this moment do not see much difference in the formation or tactics. He needs to change it now - yes we have better quality players being brought in but in an attacking sense we are pretty toothless because our main striker is just totally isolated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 The non-selection of Aarons gave Arsenal much less to think about. Wenger must have looked at our set up and said one word to his players - attack I can take defeat but sitting deep in 4 games running inviting the opposition on gives an insight into the managers spineless approach. He told us he would excite us - is this the beginning of Pardewesque bullshit because if I hadn't gone midweek I would have missed all of the excitement - even then due to a club cock up didn't get in the ground till 8-05 when the score was already 2-1 Can't understand why the same formation and same team wasn't used except for Williamson of course - I mean I can because we decided to go negative and sit deep it was always a matter of time from the very first minute as against all previous opposition - a disgraceful approach at home and an inviting approach away Mark my words the tone of this thread will be different come March. It's amazing we sat back against Southampton but still had 56% possession, even with some of our players clearly being absolutely paggered for the last 15 minutes... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveItIfWeBeatU Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 The non-selection of Aarons gave Arsenal much less to think about. Aarons had a very mediocre game against Northampton Town. That didn't exactly make him an obvious choice to start against Arsenal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ElCid Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 We spent the majority of two games against the two best possession teams in the league, with a man down ffs In order to reverse the utter rubbish we'd been served up by al pards in the last few years, SMC needed to get back to basics. Professional attitude on and off the pitch, respect for the fans, better communication, proper coaches and backroom staff, and a solid defensive shape that should become hard to break down. This is a game where the 11 players on the pitch (haha) at any given time need to make collective and individual decisions in split seconds. You can't influence that in 5 minutes. It takes bloody time. It's nowhere near good enough at the moment, but McClaren has earned the chance to show what he wants to do. No one's saying we'll win the league next year or owt. But not seeing encouraging signs from the evidence we've had so far is just being stubborn for the sake of it. So by playing two players who can't pass the ball more than 10 yards sideways and backwards, are physically out muscled consistently every game and leaving your main striker isolated without service is the way forward. I can't see encouraging signs it just reminds me of last year but instead of hoofing the ball forward we are now trying to play keep the ball with 10 yard balls between the defence and Colback/Anita. As an attacking force we are virtually a non entity currently - sorry when I see basic mistakes being made which are so obvious then I will call it. If your happy with that so be it but don't know how you can be to be honest. Yes we have been down to 10 men but before we were the team was set up wrong at Swansea and against Arsenal. Add to the fact Sissoko is not a winger and Perez being dropped again (or even De Jong) not being selected to the detriment of the team and resulting in your main striker being totally isolated, then I'm sorry that is certainly not an improvement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themanupstairs Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 We spent the majority of two games against the two best possession teams in the league, with a man down ffs In order to reverse the utter rubbish we'd been served up by al pards in the last few years, SMC needed to get back to basics. Professional attitude on and off the pitch, respect for the fans, better communication, proper coaches and backroom staff, and a solid defensive shape that should become hard to break down. This is a game where the 11 players on the pitch (haha) at any given time need to make collective and individual decisions in split seconds. You can't influence that in 5 minutes. It takes bloody time. It's nowhere near good enough at the moment, but McClaren has earned the chance to show what he wants to do. No one's saying we'll win the league next year or owt. But not seeing encouraging signs from the evidence we've had so far is just being stubborn for the sake of it. So by playing two players who can't pass the ball more than 10 yards sideways and backwards, are physically out muscled consistently every game and leaving your main striker isolated without service is the way forward. I can't see encouraging signs it just reminds me of last year but instead of hoofing the ball forward we are now trying to play keep the ball with 10 yard balls between the defence and Colback/Anita. As an attacking force we are virtually a non entity currently - sorry when I see basic mistakes being made which are so obvious then I will call it. If your happy with that so be it but don't know how you can be to be honest. Yes we have been down to 10 men but before we were the team was set up wrong at Swansea and against Arsenal. Add to the fact Sissoko is not a winger and Perez being dropped again (or even De Jong) not being selected to the detriment of the team and resulting in your main striker being totally isolated, then I'm sorry that is certainly not an improvement. I've clearly said that the way we're playing is still nowhere near good enough for the future. The fact that he has gone back to basics with the stuff I've highlighted bodes well in that he has to start from somewhere. I also have gripes about the 2 tiny dancers in midfield, and I don't think it's how we should line up once we have settled as a squad with new players and totally new management. I am however willing to be patient and let the new coaching do its job, as the signs are encouraging. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ElCid Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 We spent the majority of two games against the two best possession teams in the league, with a man down ffs In order to reverse the utter rubbish we'd been served up by al pards in the last few years, SMC needed to get back to basics. Professional attitude on and off the pitch, respect for the fans, better communication, proper coaches and backroom staff, and a solid defensive shape that should become hard to break down. This is a game where the 11 players on the pitch (haha) at any given time need to make collective and individual decisions in split seconds. You can't influence that in 5 minutes. It takes bloody time. It's nowhere near good enough at the moment, but McClaren has earned the chance to show what he wants to do. No one's saying we'll win the league next year or owt. But not seeing encouraging signs from the evidence we've had so far is just being stubborn for the sake of it. So by playing two players who can't pass the ball more than 10 yards sideways and backwards, are physically out muscled consistently every game and leaving your main striker isolated without service is the way forward. I can't see encouraging signs it just reminds me of last year but instead of hoofing the ball forward we are now trying to play keep the ball with 10 yard balls between the defence and Colback/Anita. As an attacking force we are virtually a non entity currently - sorry when I see basic mistakes being made which are so obvious then I will call it. If your happy with that so be it but don't know how you can be to be honest. Yes we have been down to 10 men but before we were the team was set up wrong at Swansea and against Arsenal. Add to the fact Sissoko is not a winger and Perez being dropped again (or even De Jong) not being selected to the detriment of the team and resulting in your main striker being totally isolated, then I'm sorry that is certainly not an improvement. I've clearly said that the way we're playing is still nowhere near good enough for the future. The fact that he has gone back to basics with the stuff I've highlighted bodes well in that he has to start from somewhere. I also have gripes about the 2 tiny dancers in midfield, and I don't think it's how we should line up once we have settled as a squad with new players and totally new management. I am however willing to be patient and let the new coaching do its job, as the signs are encouraging. I disagree about the encouraging signs as you can't be when he is getting a basic and obvious error in playing these two AND continuing to do it. I put money on it now that he doesn't change it anytime soon either and let's see then if your still saying encouraging signs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozy Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Get a f***ing grip. Stop acting like a tool ... how about an intelligent articulate response to defend your points .... 'Get a grip' is hardly Rene Descartes stuff is it ... either that or don't reply at all. This wasn't actually even in response to anything you said, unless you are just a Pseudonym of TCD. Saying that, I absolutely think you, ElCid and TCD need to get a fucking grip. Why? Because we have played 4 league games in the 2015/2016 season. This coming after 4 years of a team being built around Mike Williamson's lack of pace/ability and relying almost entirely on luck and Moussa Sissoko counter attacks to score goals. How long do you expect it to take players to adjust to a system that is based around actual passing and movement? I expect to see incremental signs of improvement, which 99% of people agree are happening. I can understand people having questions about team selection and formations etc, but to say this is more of the same Pardew shit and that you're writing McClaren off after 4 games is idiotic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 This is the Steve MC side I was expecting though. Well organised and defensive. He's done well to sort the defence out but we don't look like scoring. Aye, we are passing it but i'd rather look like scoring. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilikenewcastle Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 This is the Steve MC side I was expecting though. Well organised and defensive. He's done well to sort the defence out but we don't look like scoring. Aye, we are passing it but i'd rather look like scoring. To be fair, we've had 2 games with 10 men against superior teams and a game at Old Trafford where we probably produced more chances than we'd have expected. If we're not creating against West Ham and Watford I'll start to worry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 This is the Steve MC side I was expecting though. Well organised and defensive. He's done well to sort the defence out but we don't look like scoring. Aye, we are passing it but i'd rather look like scoring. To be fair, we've had 2 games with 10 men against superior teams and a game at Old Trafford where we probably produced more chances than we'd have expected. If we're not creating against West Ham and Watford I'll start to worry. Let's be honest. Didn't look like scoring against swansea anyway. Ditto Arsenal. 2 half chances and one genuine chance is hardly anything to talk about in attacking terms. I don't consider any of the teams we'v faced to be real untouchable top quality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenham Mag Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 This is the Steve MC side I was expecting though. Well organised and defensive. He's done well to sort the defence out but we don't look like scoring. Aye, we are passing it but i'd rather look like scoring. We look more attacking than Pardew's side, even with only 10 men. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 This is the Steve MC side I was expecting though. Well organised and defensive. He's done well to sort the defence out but we don't look like scoring. Aye, we are passing it but i'd rather look like scoring. To be fair, we've had 2 games with 10 men against superior teams and a game at Old Trafford where we probably produced more chances than we'd have expected. If we're not creating against West Ham and Watford I'll start to worry. Let's be honest. Didn't look like scoring against swansea anyway. Ditto Arsenal. 2 half chances and one genuine chance is hardly anything to talk about in attacking terms. I don't consider any of the teams we'v faced to be real untouchable top quality. Pretty sure McClaren himself has said the passing/attacking would come later, the focus is on making us solid first. After last season, he has to be super careful with confidence, especially as do/did have quite a tough opening run of games. I think there's a plan in place and this has to be remembered, it took us quite a while to look an attacking force under KK when he came back, let's not forget. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 But KK is known for attacking football. My opinion of SMC is that he's defensive. He's not in Sam's league of awfulness but Big Sam would say the same shit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themanupstairs Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 This is the Steve MC side I was expecting though. Well organised and defensive. He's done well to sort the defence out but we don't look like scoring. Aye, we are passing it but i'd rather look like scoring. To be fair, we've had 2 games with 10 men against superior teams and a game at Old Trafford where we probably produced more chances than we'd have expected. If we're not creating against West Ham and Watford I'll start to worry. Let's be honest. Didn't look like scoring against swansea anyway. Ditto Arsenal. 2 half chances and one genuine chance is hardly anything to talk about in attacking terms. I don't consider any of the teams we'v faced to be real untouchable top quality. Pretty sure McClaren himself has said the passing/attacking would come later, the focus is on making us solid first. After last season, he has to be super careful with confidence, especially as do/did have quite a tough opening run of games. I think there's a plan in place and this has to be remembered, it took us quite a while to look an attacking force under KK when he came back, let's not forget. There's also the small matter of the massive windfall that clubs are hoping to cash in on next season. Priority will clearly be to set up defensively and play the counter-attack for 10 or 11 clubs in the division as they try to avoid relegation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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