Steve McClaren

[Hanshithispantz]

Aye, that definitely would have happened like.

 

EDIT:

 

Anyway I'm not going to write him off but I massively disagree with this justification for him not going for it in games, and even (against Man Utd) just surrendering possession and sitting deep.

 

It's hard to judge him on the Arsenal game even though they were all over us before the card, the squad selection was closer to what most people would want and we may have grew into the game, who knows. Obertan out was an obvious positive and his subs were fine if a little late.

 

I've got no idea what the Swansea game even was, and we were OK against Southampton. 2 points though, 2 goals, no wins. In hindsight the decision to refrain from going on the offensive hasn't really worked and the major positive is that we're not getting tanked 4-0 every week.

 

I think he'll get better and I actually look forward to our games now, but I also think we've pretty much just wasted 4 by treating the opposition with too much respect.

[TRon]

Man U were roasting us for the first 20 mins before we dropped back and closed down the space. Obviously we don't want to be playing defensive football ideally, but when you are at Old Trafford with a side which is still finding it's feet, then you do what it takes to stay in the game. If we're still doing that in month's time against teams like Watford or Leicester then we should definitely be worried.

[Twinport53]

Odd question that like.

 

I think he's alluding that if we had attacked Man U more in the last 30 minutes we'd probably have conceded 3+ goals as they would have enjoyed raping us on the counter.

 

 

Pardew used to "keep it tight", then go and get us hammered. At one or two nil down, he would then tell people to get forward, and before you know it, 3+ goals to nil.

 

But we tried.

[DJ_NUFC]

Aye, that definitely would have happened like.

 

EDIT:

 

Anyway I'm not going to write him off but I massively disagree with this justification for him not going for it in games, and even (against Man Utd) just surrendering possession and sitting deep.

 

It's hard to judge him on the Arsenal game even though they were all over us before the card, the squad selection was closer to what most people would want and we may have grew into the game, who knows. Obertan out was an obvious positive and his subs were fine if a little late.

 

I've got no idea what the Swansea game even was, and we were OK against Southampton. 2 points though, 2 goals, no wins. In hindsight the decision to refrain from going on the offensive hasn't really worked and the major positive is that we're not getting tanked 4-0 every week.

 

I think he'll get better and I actually look forward to our games now, but I also think we've pretty much just wasted 4 by treating the opposition with too much respect.

[Guest ElCid]

Man U were roasting us for the first 20 mins before we dropped back and closed down the space. Obviously we don't want to be playing defensive football ideally, but when you are at Old Trafford with a side which is still finding it's feet, then you do what it takes to stay in the game. If we're still doing that in month's time against teams like Watford or Leicester then we should definitely be worried.

 

Any team will get the better with Coback and Anita in the team and that's your centre hub - change that and the whole team will benefit in every way

[Hanshithispantz]

Man U were roasting us for the first 20 mins before we dropped back and closed down the space. Obviously we don't want to be playing defensive football ideally, but when you are at Old Trafford with a side which is still finding it's feet, then you do what it takes to stay in the game. If we're still doing that in month's time against teams like Watford or Leicester then we should definitely be worried.

Like West Ham did at The Emirates and Anfield?

 

As for Pardew, we weren't battered consistently because he tried to go on the offensive after keeping it tight, we were battered because we had absolutely no direction, we were clueless on every part of the pitch.

 

[TRon]

Man U were roasting us for the first 20 mins before we dropped back and closed down the space. Obviously we don't want to be playing defensive football ideally, but when you are at Old Trafford with a side which is still finding it's feet, then you do what it takes to stay in the game. If we're still doing that in month's time against teams like Watford or Leicester then we should definitely be worried.

 

Any team will get the better with Coback and Anita in the team and that's your centre hub - change that and the whole team will benefit in every way

 

Not going to disagree with you on that, I've said for a long time I don't see the need for two deep sitting midfielders, with those two in, the only way to play is to defend deep. That said, I don't think we had the defence to handle a more open game against Man U on the day.

[Optimistic Nut]

West Ham weren't coming off the back of a season as bad as ours and have been match-fit for a month more than everyone else.

[TRon]

Man U were roasting us for the first 20 mins before we dropped back and closed down the space. Obviously we don't want to be playing defensive football ideally, but when you are at Old Trafford with a side which is still finding it's feet, then you do what it takes to stay in the game. If we're still doing that in month's time against teams like Watford or Leicester then we should definitely be worried.

Like West Ham did at The Emirates and Anfield?

 

As for Pardew, we weren't battered consistently because he tried to go on the offensive after keeping it tight, we were battered because we had absolutely no direction, we were clueless on every part of the pitch.

 

 

Did West Ham go on the attack at the Emirates and Anfield? I thought the idea was to park the bus against Liverpool.

[Hanshithispantz]

Last season is irrelevant. They have a new manager, so do we.

[Hanshithispantz]

Man U were roasting us for the first 20 mins before we dropped back and closed down the space. Obviously we don't want to be playing defensive football ideally, but when you are at Old Trafford with a side which is still finding it's feet, then you do what it takes to stay in the game. If we're still doing that in month's time against teams like Watford or Leicester then we should definitely be worried.

Like West Ham did at The Emirates and Anfield?

 

As for Pardew, we weren't battered consistently because he tried to go on the offensive after keeping it tight, we were battered because we had absolutely no direction, we were clueless on every part of the pitch.

 

 

Did West Ham go on the attack at the Emirates and Anfield? I thought the idea was to park the bus against Liverpool.

Well I mean they won 3-0 and had 12 shots on goal (1 less than Liverpool) so I kind of doubt it.

[samptime29]

Tbh I think our start to the season has probably been the toughest of any team.

 

We 100% have to beat Watford, and I'd take a draw at West Ham.

 

Really the key is the 10 or so games after Chelsea home match. We need to go on a run in this period.

[Optimistic Nut]

Last season is irrelevant. They have a new manager, so do we.

 

Last season is relevant imo. We're trying to scrub out 3-4 years of mis-management, low confidence & poor tactics.

[Gallowgate Toon]

Last season is irrelevant. They have a new manager, so do we.

 

Last season is relevant imo. We're trying to scrub out 3-4 years of mis-management, low confidence & poor tactics.

 

 

West Ham's situation is different to our own. Our confidence and the players' trust in one another has most likely had to be very carefully managed for the opening fixtures.

 

I think Venkman wrote a post about the other week that gets it absolutely spot on.

[triggs]

Man U were roasting us for the first 20 mins before we dropped back and closed down the space. Obviously we don't want to be playing defensive football ideally, but when you are at Old Trafford with a side which is still finding it's feet, then you do what it takes to stay in the game. If we're still doing that in month's time against teams like Watford or Leicester then we should definitely be worried.

Like West Ham did at The Emirates and Anfield?

 

As for Pardew, we weren't battered consistently because he tried to go on the offensive after keeping it tight, we were battered because we had absolutely no direction, we were clueless on every part of the pitch.

 

 

Did West Ham go on the attack at the Emirates and Anfield? I thought the idea was to park the bus against Liverpool.

Well I mean they won 3-0 and had 12 shots on goal (1 less than Liverpool) so I kind of doubt it.

Liverpool aren't very good tbf

[AY]

Man U were roasting us for the first 20 mins before we dropped back and closed down the space. Obviously we don't want to be playing defensive football ideally, but when you are at Old Trafford with a side which is still finding it's feet, then you do what it takes to stay in the game. If we're still doing that in month's time against teams like Watford or Leicester then we should definitely be worried.

Like West Ham did at The Emirates and Anfield?

 

As for Pardew, we weren't battered consistently because he tried to go on the offensive after keeping it tight, we were battered because we had absolutely no direction, we were clueless on every part of the pitch.

 

 

Did West Ham go on the attack at the Emirates and Anfield? I thought the idea was to park the bus against Liverpool.

Well I mean they won 3-0 and had 12 shots on goal (1 less than Liverpool) so I kind of doubt it.

 

They didn't really create anything and the goals were a total gift from Liverpool defence. All credit to them, but Lovren especially had a mare

[Guest ElCid]

Man U were roasting us for the first 20 mins before we dropped back and closed down the space. Obviously we don't want to be playing defensive football ideally, but when you are at Old Trafford with a side which is still finding it's feet, then you do what it takes to stay in the game. If we're still doing that in month's time against teams like Watford or Leicester then we should definitely be worried.

 

Any team will get the better with Coback and Anita in the team and that's your centre hub - change that and the whole team will benefit in every way

 

Not going to disagree with you on that, I've said for a long time I don't see the need for two deep sitting midfielders, with those two in, the only way to play is to defend deep. That said, I don't think we had the defence to handle a more open game against Man U on the day.

 

The first 20 minutes was like the Alamo at Man Utd with only good defending, wayward finishing and a poor final ball not proving costly - Man Utd during that period and in the second half cut though these two like a knife through butter on numerous occasions

My argument is as follows (and not with you personally):-

 

1. By playing every game with deep midfielders you are inviting teams to come onto you, which is very dangerous against top teams as they will find a way to punish you - you need to be at them further up the field in their faces and not allowing them time to dictate the play - with two defensive midfielders you can't do that

2. Anita and Colback are average at best, their passing is 10 - 15 yard ball backwards and sideways with very little forward play resulting in opposing teams being able to put pressure onto the team from deep in our own half. The amount of times the two give the ball away even with 10 - 15 yard balls is frightening also If you put average players against quality players 9 times out of 10 the quality players will dominate

3. Neither have the physique or strength to dominate the midfield area and are very easily pushed off the ball

4.. People say they're being used to keep it tight but were part of the team that were in 5 of the worst performances by us last year resulting in 18 goals conceded

5. Mitrovic or any other main striker is being isolated meaning that the support he has up front is virtually nil

6. I agree that a good quality DM is required but the only player who is anyhere near up to the task is Tiote and he has not been the same player the last couple of years either (I would still play him instead of the other two though as he has the strength to compete) - the perfect example of an ideal DM is Carrick as he dictates play by his passing range and can hit 30 - 40 yard balls easily thus putting teams on the back foot

 

People are saying about the formation and the tactics to protect the back 4 well sorry your using the wrong 2 people for this. Almost everyone thinks that both should not be playing in midfield together and then argue it's to protect the back 4. How the f*** are 2 average players, who are easily pushed off the ball and cannot pass the ball more than 10 - 15 yards supposed to protect the back four when they are constantly being outplayed in midfield. If we had the players I can understand but not with these two they are nowhere near quality and never will be in a month of Sundays.

 

If McClaren is so focussed on playing this system he should be going with his begging the ball and banging Ashley's door down to sign players who can actually do the job properly - imagine having one top DM and one top play-maker beside him do you really think that we would be on the back foot all game with the quality of the other players we have. The 1 goal in two games had nothing to do with Anita and Colback it was down to bloody good defending by the back 4 as both Man Utd and Arsenal (before the sending off) were totally dominating the midfield. Unfortunately the defending was not as good against Swansea and Southampton - if McClaren keeps playing these two then (and I will put money on this also) by the time he realises the total obvious - we will be in a relegation battle.

 

If you continue to play average players against quality players in a key area then your on a big big loser - I say this again if Pardew was here and playing these two, this place would be slaughtering him and rightly so. It's got nothing to do with tactics and formation if you continue to play average players you will not win many games as has been proven time and time again when these two play together.

[TRon]

Man U were roasting us for the first 20 mins before we dropped back and closed down the space. Obviously we don't want to be playing defensive football ideally, but when you are at Old Trafford with a side which is still finding it's feet, then you do what it takes to stay in the game. If we're still doing that in month's time against teams like Watford or Leicester then we should definitely be worried.

 

Any team will get the better with Coback and Anita in the team and that's your centre hub - change that and the whole team will benefit in every way

 

Not going to disagree with you on that, I've said for a long time I don't see the need for two deep sitting midfielders, with those two in, the only way to play is to defend deep. That said, I don't think we had the defence to handle a more open game against Man U on the day.

 

The first 20 minutes was like the Alamo at Man Utd with only good defending, wayward finishing and a poor final ball not proving costly - Man Utd during that period and in the second half cut though these two like a knife through butter on numerous occasions

My argument is as follows (and not with you personally):-

 

1. By playing every game with deep midfielders you are inviting teams to come onto you, which is very dangerous against top teams as they will find a way to punish you - you need to be at them further up the field in their faces and not allowing them time to dictate the play - with two defensive midfielders you can't do that

2. Anita and Colback are average at best, their passing is 10 - 15 yard ball backwards and sideways with very little forward play resulting in opposing teams being able to put pressure onto the team from deep in our own half. The amount of times the two give the ball away even with 10 - 15 yard balls is frightening also If you put average players against quality players 9 times out of 10 the quality players will dominate

3. Neither have the physique or strength to dominate the midfield area and are very easily pushed off the ball

4.. People say they're being used to keep it tight but were part of the team that were in 5 of the worst performances by us last year resulting in 18 goals conceded

5. Mitrovic or any other main striker is being isolated meaning that the support he has up front is virtually nil

6. I agree that a good quality DM is required but the only player who is anyhere near up to the task is Tiote and he has not been the same player the last couple of years either (I would still play him instead of the other two though as he has the strength to compete) - the perfect example of an ideal DM is Carrick as he dictates play by his passing range and can hit 30 - 40 yard balls easily thus putting teams on the back foot

 

People are saying about the formation and the tactics to protect the back 4 well sorry your using the wrong 2 people for this. Almost everyone thinks that both should not be playing in midfield together and then argue it's to protect the back 4. How the f*** are 2 average players, who are easily pushed off the ball and cannot pass the ball more than 10 - 15 yards supposed to protect the back four when they are constantly being outplayed in midfield. If we had the players I can understand but not with these two they are nowhere near quality and never will be in a month of Sundays.

 

If McClaren is so focussed on playing this system he should be going with his begging the ball and banging Ashley's door down to sign players who can actually do the job properly even though as a team - imagine having one top DM and one top play-maker beside him do you really think that we would be on the back foot all game with the quality of the other players we have. The 1 goal in two games had nothing to do with Anita and Colback it was down to bloody good defending by the back 4 as both Man Utd and Arsenal (before the sending off) were totally dominating the midfield. Unfortunately the defending was not as good against Swansea and Southampton was not as good - if McClaren keeps playing these two then (and I will put money on this also) by the time he realises the total obvious - we will be in a relegation battle.

 

If you continue to play average layers against quality players in a key area then your on a big big loser - I say this again if Pardew was here and playing these two, this place would be slaughtering him and rightly so. It's got nothing to do with tactics and formation if you continue to play average players you will not win many games as has been proven time and time again when these two play together.

 

I basically agree with all of that, except that if we were slaughtering Pardew it was after 3 years not 3 weeks. I think that McClaren is playing two defensive midfielders because he doesn't think either Colback or Anita are capable of doing that job by themselves. Tiote would probably be best suited for it but he's not had adequate fitness or form to be started for a while now. I will be interested to see if McClaren does bring him into the side at some point, but I hope it's not alongside Colback/Anita as Pardew loved to do.

[Guest ElCid]

Man U were roasting us for the first 20 mins before we dropped back and closed down the space. Obviously we don't want to be playing defensive football ideally, but when you are at Old Trafford with a side which is still finding it's feet, then you do what it takes to stay in the game. If we're still doing that in month's time against teams like Watford or Leicester then we should definitely be worried.

 

Any team will get the better with Coback and Anita in the team and that's your centre hub - change that and the whole team will benefit in every way

 

Not going to disagree with you on that, I've said for a long time I don't see the need for two deep sitting midfielders, with those two in, the only way to play is to defend deep. That said, I don't think we had the defence to handle a more open game against Man U on the day.

 

The first 20 minutes was like the Alamo at Man Utd with only good defending, wayward finishing and a poor final ball not proving costly - Man Utd during that period and in the second half cut though these two like a knife through butter on numerous occasions

My argument is as follows (and not with you personally):-

 

1. By playing every game with deep midfielders you are inviting teams to come onto you, which is very dangerous against top teams as they will find a way to punish you - you need to be at them further up the field in their faces and not allowing them time to dictate the play - with two defensive midfielders you can't do that

2. Anita and Colback are average at best, their passing is 10 - 15 yard ball backwards and sideways with very little forward play resulting in opposing teams being able to put pressure onto the team from deep in our own half. The amount of times the two give the ball away even with 10 - 15 yard balls is frightening also If you put average players against quality players 9 times out of 10 the quality players will dominate

3. Neither have the physique or strength to dominate the midfield area and are very easily pushed off the ball

4.. People say they're being used to keep it tight but were part of the team that were in 5 of the worst performances by us last year resulting in 18 goals conceded

5. Mitrovic or any other main striker is being isolated meaning that the support he has up front is virtually nil

6. I agree that a good quality DM is required but the only player who is anyhere near up to the task is Tiote and he has not been the same player the last couple of years either (I would still play him instead of the other two though as he has the strength to compete) - the perfect example of an ideal DM is Carrick as he dictates play by his passing range and can hit 30 - 40 yard balls easily thus putting teams on the back foot

 

People are saying about the formation and the tactics to protect the back 4 well sorry your using the wrong 2 people for this. Almost everyone thinks that both should not be playing in midfield together and then argue it's to protect the back 4. How the f*** are 2 average players, who are easily pushed off the ball and cannot pass the ball more than 10 - 15 yards supposed to protect the back four when they are constantly being outplayed in midfield. If we had the players I can understand but not with these two they are nowhere near quality and never will be in a month of Sundays.

 

If McClaren is so focussed on playing this system he should be going with his begging the ball and banging Ashley's door down to sign players who can actually do the job properly even though as a team - imagine having one top DM and one top play-maker beside him do you really think that we would be on the back foot all game with the quality of the other players we have. The 1 goal in two games had nothing to do with Anita and Colback it was down to bloody good defending by the back 4 as both Man Utd and Arsenal (before the sending off) were totally dominating the midfield. Unfortunately the defending was not as good against Swansea and Southampton was not as good - if McClaren keeps playing these two then (and I will put money on this also) by the time he realises the total obvious - we will be in a relegation battle.

 

If you continue to play average layers against quality players in a key area then your on a big big loser - I say this again if Pardew was here and playing these two, this place would be slaughtering him and rightly so. It's got nothing to do with tactics and formation if you continue to play average players you will not win many games as has been proven time and time again when these two play together.

 

I basically agree with all of that, except that if we were slaughtering Pardew it was after 3 years not 3 weeks. I think that McClaren is playing two defensive midfielders because he doesn't think either Colback or Anita are capable of doing that job by themselves. Tiote would probably be best suited for it but he's not had adequate fitness or form to be started for a while now. I will be interested to see if McClaren does bring him into the side at some point, but I hope it's not alongside Colback/Anita as Pardew loved to do.

 

I agree about Tiote but I just can't see why he is playing Anita and Colback as they are average so immediately causes problems just doesn't make sense. If he wants to play that system as I said he should be banging down Ashley's door to buy a proven DM as he is just going to be in a relegation place if he doesn't do something. I still say we need a Cabaye type player with Tiote (or another DM) to get the best out of the team. Watch this space because if he doesn't, I guarantee now tha the same people on here having a go at the likes of me berating McClaren for making such an obvious mistake will come back with their tail between the legs. You can't afford to wait either if you do a 1/4 of the season if not more is gone and your in the bottom 3 and playing catch up.

[Beren]

Needs to shave that island of hair that sits apart from the rest of his mop.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Needs to shave that island of hair that sits apart from the rest of his mop.

 

It's an all or nothing situation really.

[Hanshithispantz]

Last season is irrelevant. They have a new manager, so do we.

 

Last season is relevant imo. We're trying to scrub out 3-4 years of mis-management, low confidence & poor tactics.

 

 

West Ham's situation is different to our own. Our confidence and the players' trust in one another has most likely had to be very carefully managed for the opening fixtures.

FFS man. People are acting as if Steve McClaren has time travelled into 1945 Birkenau and is now trying to nurture a bunch of malnourished and traumatised victims of war back to health and onto a football field.

 

 

[Wullie]

Last season is irrelevant. They have a new manager, so do we.

 

Last season is relevant imo. We're trying to scrub out 3-4 years of mis-management, low confidence & poor tactics.

 

 

West Ham's situation is different to our own. Our confidence and the players' trust in one another has most likely had to be very carefully managed for the opening fixtures.

FFS man. People are acting as if Steve McClaren has time travelled into 1945 Birkenau and is now trying to nurture a bunch of malnourished and traumatised victims of war back to health and onto a football field.

 

 

As if West Ham's players have had it loads better having spent the last five years listening to Fat Sam's Fat Head barking at them through a megaphone.

[Optimistic Nut]

They were a solid side though and Allardyce s***s on Pardew from a great height. Much easier to come into that than what McClaren came into. They've also been s*** at home, were lucky Cech gave them a couple at The Emirates...fair play at Liverpool.

[mozy]

A question to ElCid - As you clearly dislike the Colback-Anita duo starting games so much, who would you play ahead of them with current options available? I'm not judging McClaren on transfers as 1. He isn't wholly responsible for them and 2. Our transfer business has actually been quite good.